COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Atlantic Dawn

My questions before I pump any of that potential magic in to my arm....
How long does vaccine last?
If I am vaccinated how much more/less am I going to infect someone if I catch Covid?
If I get the St Bernard Vaccine now can I later down the line a while later take the Tesco vaccine or am I brand locked?
When travelling abroad will some countries rank certain brands of the vaccine as rubbish?

WoollyRedHat

Wolf359f wrote: »

That's not what they said. You know that. but you still say it
There is no evidence the vaccine is efficient or non efficient in people over 65.
So the German's are taking the cautious approach and not using it to vaccinate 65+. Not because it's unsafe, but because they don't know how effective or ineffective it is, in that age group.
The vaccine has been deemed safe for anyone over 18 (and that includes 65+)
Safety≠ Efficacy

They mentioned efficacy and safety in their panel recommendations, I didn't make the claim it isn't safe, I simply am repeating decision made by Germany HA due to.lack of data, so what exactly from what I said is inaccurate. The main gripe in my post was the German authorities insistence to make a decision before the EMA had issued it's official decision, it's not a good way to operate.

Wolf359f

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

They mentioned efficacy and safety in their panel recommendations, I didn't make the claim it isn't safe, I simply am repeating decision made by Germany HA due to.lack of data, so what exactly from what I said is inaccurate. The main gripe in my post was the German authorities insistence to make a decision before the EMA had issued it's official decision, it's not a good way to operate.

Show me the quote the AZ vaccine is unsafe for over 65.
I've heard them say there's not enough evidence it's effective or ineffective in over 65. I have not heard it's unsafe for over 65.
Because mentioning safety in a sentence without saying it's safe or not safe is not the same as alluding to it being unsafe because it's not proven to be efficient.

Atlantic Dawn

Has there been any research done on mixing brands of vaccine? Probably better to lock in to a single brand for each person after they are vaccinated.

WoollyRedHat

Wolf359f wrote: »

Show me the quote the AZ vaccine is unsafe for over 65.
I've heard them say there's not enough evidence it's effective or ineffective in over 65. I have not heard it's unsafe for over 65.
Because mentioning safety in a sentence without saying it's safe or not safe is not the same as alluding to it being unsafe because it's not proven to be efficient.

I have updated my original post and changed safe to safety, as the two words are different apologies.

But what is your opinion on Germany's decision, do you think it was responsible to make such a decision before the EMA ruling?

Wolf359f

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Has there been any research done on mixing brands of vaccine? Probably better to lock in to a single brand for each person after they are vaccinated.

Not quite, AZ and Sputnik are looking to trial using each others as a second shot.
There is a term used to which for the life of me I can't remember.
I think it's down to different vaccines causing different reactions and having both increases the reactions. 1 vaccines's weakness gets covered by another.
Far too complex for me to grasp, but yes it's in the pipeline.

con747

Got 3 lines in and.... yawn..... Took longer to scroll down past it.

Plumbthedepths

Didn't read it all, well I stopped pretty much after the heading tbh, what's the alternative?

thelad95

A quick Google of Dr. Marcus De Brun shows that he's been threatened with being struck off multiple times even before Covid for spreading misinformation.

Wolf359f

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

I have updated my original post and changed safe to safety, as the two words are different apologies.

But what is your opinion on Germany's decision, do you think it was responsible to make such a decision before the EMA ruling?

Updating your post is useless, just because they mentioned safety means nothing unless you tell us what they meant by it. Did they say because of safety concerns we can't approve it or despite of our safety concerns being completely satisfied, we can't approve due to lack of data regarding efficacy?
Both statements mention safety, but both have completely opposite outcomes.

Me personally, I'll take the EMA's advice. Maybe the Germans want to be extra cautious and having extra Pfizer vaccine, can offset the AZ not being in use for 65+. If they can protect they 65+ population with Pfizer and Moderna, I don't think it's irresponsible. It's certainly surprising especially with the EMA's judgement.

kyote00

10 years reading the conspiracy theory forum takes it toll.

There is no vaccine for stupidly

WoollyRedHat

Wolf359f wrote: »

Updating your post is useless, just because they mentioned safety means nothing unless you tell us what they meant by it. Did they say because of safety concerns we can't approve it or despite of our safety concerns being completely satisfied, we can't approve due to lack of data regarding efficacy?
Both statements mention safety, but both have completely opposite outcomes.

Me personally, I'll take the EMA's advice. Maybe the Germans want to be extra cautious and having extra Pfizer vaccine, can offset the AZ not being in use for 65+. If they can protect they 65+ population with Pfizer and Moderna, I don't think it's irresponsible. It's certainly surprising especially with the EMA's judgement.

I mentioned lack of data as being the reason?? Their stance is at odds with the EMA. Why did France and Italy decide to wait until EMA made their decision and Germany couldn't wait? We're talking about a day's difference...

FileNotFound

Pfizer vaccines encourages your body to make a protein molecule.

Your body destroys it.

This protein is in the covid virus make up.

Your body knows how and does destroy that protein thus killing virus.

All the vaccine is, is a protein, essentially. Some peoples systems react a lot (look at the sniffling one in your office), others will have a solid reaction.

That's not the vaccine, just your immune system trying to destroy a protein.

Wouldn't be too worried about it. Be happy to get a shot when I can

WoollyRedHat

brianhere wrote: »

snip

Marcus De Brun is not an expert on human genomics, mRnA or vaccine development, why is he being given reverence here?

FileNotFound

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

I mentioned lack of data as being the reason?? Their stance is at odds with the EMA. Why did France and Italy decide to wait until EMA made their decision and Germany couldn't wait? We're talking about a day's difference...

For the factual answer you'd have to ask the German HA that one.

Best bet they have sufficient alternative to vaccinate the over 65's. No denying the Taylored nature of the AZ trial.

If your over 65 and worried get the J&J when it comes. Think I read 30% of their study is over 65 and very low reaction rate. 80% effective against standard virus, tested against variants and showing 60% efficacy on them. Other vaccines not even trailed on variants yet.

There has been many incidents of drugs getting emergency FDA and EMA approvals before going through the full clinical trial and development lifecycle. Think of drugs coming out during the AIDS pandemic or many drugs for life saving treatment for cancer and other life threatening diseases.
I was a Clinical Trials project manager for years and have worked on drugs that have taken 10-15 years to come to Market. On the other hand I have seen drugs for conditions such as ALS coming to market in just a few years.
You might think that this vaccine has just flown through the clinical trials process and yes it may well have. However it has been tested in clinical settings on tens of thousands of patients and the mRNA technology behind the vaccine has been in development for almost as long as most drugs take to get to market these days.
We are in an unprecedented time, you may say that the death rate is low but that's only half the story. There are life changing after effects from this infection for a lot of people. The clinical trials have been expedited but they are done under intense scrutiny by the FDA and EMA.
These vaccines will save many lives and prevent people from terrible suffering. They are well tested. The only criticism I would have is that the long term impact of the vaccinations are unknown. However there is plenty of precedent for fast tracking regulatory approval of drugs.
I would feel completely safe getting the vaccine, even if I need boosters from time to time. Look at Hep B vaccination. It's recommended to get a booster every 5 years.
Stop with the conspiracy theories and unknowledgeable folks passing judgements on what is a very well regulated industry. Don't forget that these huge pharma companies are well aware of the risk to their business if they bring a drug to market that causes more damage than the lives it saves. They don't take those types of risks. Not since Thalidomide.

Fighting Tao

I can say as someone who currently has covid, take the vaccine!! It is not worth the pain, illness, and stress not to. The past week has been the worst experience of my life. I had so many different symptoms that I’m continuously wondering what is going to be the next issue.

The vaccines have completed their trials and nothing unusual and no different side effects have shown up since they started being rolled out. The are being constantly monitored to ensure they are as expected.

Sky King

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Marcus De Brun is not an expert on human genomics, mRnA or vaccine development, why is he being given reverence here?

Because he's one of the only people with any form of recognisable qualification that antivaxers can reference in their arguments, even though vaccines are not his area of specialty and if you look him up it seems he is a quack.

Malcomex

Ohmeha wrote: »

Government, HSE and media need to up their game now on the educational aspect of these vaccines and how the government plan to select who receives which the 3 approved vaccines and hopefully more in the months ahead. It's a worry when people like my mother (who obviously won't listen to me!) are suddenly turning apprehensive & fearful at the beginning of the rollout process thinking they should have a choice of vaccine and incorrectly believing that AZ 65% effacacy means 35% won't at all be protected from death/serious illness

The lack of Public Information messaging is alarming

Not sure what's going on there?

irishgeo

markodaly wrote: »

I know today was a good day, but no, we will not be fully vaccinated by end of July.

People are far too eager to count their chickens before they hatch.

But you don't need everyone vaccinated to start opening the country.

All this talk of mutations but if all the virus is being eliminated in various countries it has less chance to mutate.

Malcomex

irishgeo wrote: »

But you don't need everyone vaccinated to start opening the country.

All this talk of mutations but if all the virus is being eliminated in various countries it has less chance to mutate.

The 1st world is getting vaccinated

The mutations will come from the 3rd world countries not vaccinated

We'll be locking down inward travel from these places while they wait to get vaccinated

Gael23

How many AZ doses are we expecting? Is it 30k a week?
There are 170,000 people over the age of 80 to be done I believe

CIARAN_BOYLE

Gael23 wrote: »

How many AZ doses are we expecting? Is it 30k a week?
There are 170,000 people over the age of 80 to be done I believe

300k doses be the end of March starting the week of the 8th.

So 7 weeks so roughly 43k a week

froog

This is a big big deal for the EU, if the vaccine plan continues to be slow and most importantly slower than the UK and the US, certain countries will be wondering what exactly is the point of the EU? The move yesterday without any consultation with ireland and a swift backtracking looked desperate and amateurish.

I'm not saying the EU is heading for breakup, but it looks very weak right now.

is_that_so

froog wrote: »

This is a big big deal for the EU, if the vaccine plan continues to be slow and most importantly slower than the UK and the US, certain countries will be wondering what exactly is the point of the EU? The move yesterday without any consultation with ireland and a swift backtracking looked desperate and amateurish.

I'm not saying the EU is heading for breakup, but it looks very weak right now.

If you microanalyze all of the actions during this year there are plenty of fault points to have fun with. As one diplomat quoted on this said, countries just want vaccines. This will pass and we won't care in April and beyond when we'll have a lot of it. January to March was always flagged as a pinchpoint.

Malcomex

There may be some advantage to the delays yet , who knows

There's an old saying "fools rush in "

At the very least we have the opportunity to study events in Israel and the UK as vaccination unfolds

agoodpunt

Let hope Israel fasttrack vac can be a barometer of just how well the vac works
https://theprint.in/world/over-30-of-its-population-vaccinated-but-israel-struggles-to-contain-new-covid-variants/594612/

Malcomex

agoodpunt wrote: »

Let hope Israel fasttrack vac can be a barometer of just how well the vac works
https://theprint.in/world/over-30-of-its-population-vaccinated-but-israel-struggles-to-contain-new-covid-variants/594612/

If they make a mistake and change tack we can learn from it

We don't need to make the same mistake so minor positive with the delays at least

Apogee

Group 3 (over 70s) to be done in stages:

RT&#201 wrote: »

Minister Donnelly said that the first doses of this third vaccine will arrive in Ireland in the week starting 8 February and that it can be part of the vaccine programme shortly afterwards. Latest coronavirus stories. It is expected that the AstraZeneca vaccine, which is easy to store and transport, will be administered by GPs in the first instance. Around 81,000 people aged over 85 will be first in line for community vaccination, followed by another 90,000 people aged between 80 and 84.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0129/1193983-virus-vaccine-information/

froog

Apogee wrote: »

Group 3 (over 70s) to be done in stages:


https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0129/1193983-virus-vaccine-information/

they need to answer the >65 question or this is going to be a mess.