COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Marhay70

odyssey06 wrote: »

Have we ever had competing vaccines before?

Where there is a selection of medicines eg for blood pressure, reflux, asthma, antidepressants there can be input from patient in the decision / cycle through different ones to find one that works best for patient. Cost can be a factor.

Germany arent using AZ on over 65s.
If we do does that mean somebody is wrong?

What would your mum have said about cervical check scandal?

My Mum wouldn't have been happy with the Cervical Cancer scandal but it's not for discussion here.
You hit the nail on the head, your Doctor will choose your vaccine as they always do, you will not be self medicating. In Germany, the Dept. of Health chose not to go with AZ, it wasn't a decision of the people, and there is a choice of vaccines for, say, flu but the medics, once again, choose which you will get.
The only choice you are likely to have is whether or not you will have a vaccine.

FileNotFound

Breege_M wrote: »

You may not have had a choice before but then I never heard of vaccines for the same infections have a difference in efficacy of over 30%.

That's just new tech.

They are fighting the same thing in very different ways.

Used be the HA would just approve the one that looked best - covid has meant we are willing to condmsider a few due to supply and demand.


Let's be honest you took ****s your whole life but only now with social media have you ever asked questions. Mostly due to the tripe and lies worrying you.

Irish Stones

Sanjuro wrote: »

If the vaccine can reduce the chances of you ending up in hospital or from getting severe symptoms, then that in of itself is a success. If you get a vaccine and you catch covid and its merely a sniffle with no long lasting effects, would you accept that?

We have to keep in mind the the vast majority of people who got the virus had none, or mild or close to mild symptoms.
Taking a vaccine which might give us the same result doesn't sound a great success.

Spanish Eyes

Does anyone know if the vaccine may have to be an annual thing like flu vaccine.

Marhay70

Irish Stones wrote: »

If a vaccine can be defined a medicine, well, when you need a medicine you are still allowed to pick the one you prefer, even if more than one will treat the same disease.

I don't know what it's like where you live but in Ireland you will not get to pick a prescription medicine. You may be trialled to see what agrees with you or not but it will be from a list your doctor selects.

polesheep

Irish Stones wrote: »

We have to keep in mind the the vast majority of people who got the virus had none, or mild or close to mild symptoms.
Taking a vaccine which might give us the same result doesn't sound a great success.

But it is a huge success for those who are vulnerable and likely to become very ill or even die.

ACitizenErased

political analyst wrote: »

When the virus that causes Covid-19 was mentioned on news bulletins for the first time, the Chinese government said there was no evidence of human-to-human transmission.

But how could other governments and the WHO have regarded that statement as even slightly credible?

After all, any coronavirus is, by its very nature, transmissible among humans, isn't it?

what does that have to do with vaccines

is_that_so

Scientists have engineered an antibody that effectively disables SARS-CoV-2 and closely related coronaviruses. Only in a lab for now.

By tinkering with the structure of the antibodies, the researchers created one, called ADG-2, that was particularly effective at disabling SARS-CoV-2 in a lab dish.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/01/22/science.abf4830

political analyst

ACitizenErased wrote: »

what does that have to do with vaccines

I posted on the wrong thread. My bad!

I've deleted that post.

Irish Stones

Marhay70 wrote: »

I don't know what it's like where you live but in Ireland you will not get to pick a prescription medicine. You may be trialled to see what agrees with you or not but it will be from a list your doctor selects.

Well, when I get a prescription I might even able to reject the prescribed med at the pharmacy and choose the generic one, if I think it is as good or better.
But anyway the doctor who writes the prescription may be suggested by the patient to write something else if the patient knows it better.

ACitizenErased

Irish Stones wrote: »

Well, when I get a prescription I might even able to reject the prescribed med at the pharmacy and choose the generic one, if I think it is as good or better.
But anyway the doctor who writes the prescription may be suggested by the patient to write something else if the patient knows it better.

I'd consider changing doctor if i were you

Str8outtaWuhan

AZ seems fine for the rest of us , but speaking for myself, I would not be happy if this is what my elderly but relatively healthy parents get. I've not seen the data that puts it into the same league as Pfizer /moderna for those of an older cohort.

And where there is money to be made the private sector will fill the gap, expect to see private companies offer vaccine choice soon enough, just like private companies are now offering testing choice.

stephenjmcd

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

AZ seems fine for the rest of us , but speaking for myself, I would not be happy if this is what my elderly but relatively healthy parents get. I've not seen the data that puts it into the same league as Pfizer /moderna for those of an older cohort.

And where there is money to be made the private sector will fill the gap, expect to see private companies offer vaccine choice soon enough, just like private companies are now offering testing choice.

There'll be no private companies offering vaccination in 2021 to start with. All pharmaceutical companies are only dealing with countries

Irish Stones

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I'd consider changing doctor if i were you

Doctors may present you a choice of medicines for the same ailment, if possible.
And anyway, we can still change it at the pharmacy with something generic.

Don't know if you a dog or a cat, but at the vets' you can even pick the vaccine you prefer, if you know/think another brand might give some ADR's.

ACitizenErased

Irish Stones wrote: »

Doctors may present you a choice of medicines for the same ailment, if possible.
And anyway, we can still change it at the pharmacy with something generic.

Don't know if you a dog or a cat, but at the vets' you can even pick the vaccine you prefer, if you know/think another brand might give some ADR's.

I want whatever doctor you have. Imagine being entitled enough to decide what medicine you're prescribed....

salmocab

Irish Stones wrote: »

Doctors may present you a choice of medicines for the same ailment, if possible.
And anyway, we can still change it at the pharmacy with something generic.

Don't know if you a dog or a cat, but at the vets' you can even pick the vaccine you prefer, if you know/think another brand might give some ADR's.

Generic drugs are replicas of the original, swapping them gives you the same drug just cheaper and made by someone else.

Marhay70

Irish Stones wrote: »

Doctors may present you a choice of medicines for the same ailment, if possible.
And anyway, we can still change it at the pharmacy with something generic.

Don't know if you a dog or a cat, but at the vets' you can even pick the vaccine you prefer, if you know/think another brand might give some ADR's.

You may pick a generic medicine but it won't be different from what your doctor prescribed.

Irish Stones

salmocab wrote: »

Generic drugs are replicas of the original, swapping them gives you the same drug just cheaper and made by someone else.

Not always replicas, sometimes they have different or no excipient which may slightly modify the efficacy of the drug.
But back to the topic.

Marhay70

Irish Stones wrote: »

Not always replicas, sometimes they have different or no excipient which may slightly modify the efficacy of the drug.
But back to the topic.

Before we get back to the subject may I suggest to you that any pharmacist would be taking a big risk to deviate from a doctor's prescription.

Str8outtaWuhan

stephenjmcd wrote: »

There'll be no private companies offering vaccination in 2021 to start with. All pharmaceutical companies are only dealing with countries

Ill check back Dec 31st see if your right

Responder XY

I'd be very surprised if by Q4 private vaccines are not avaliable.

stephenjmcd

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Ill check back Dec 31st see if your right

Pharma companies have already stated it. They aren't dealing with private companies and won't until the orders they currently have are delivered, the order books are basically full for 2021 as it is.

dartboardio

Marhay70 wrote: »

You may pick a generic medicine but it won't be different from what your doctor prescribed.

Yes it can be. You can ask your doctor for the generic version or cheaper version of anything

When i used to get the contraception depoprovera injection, I used to ask for the generic version as it was cheaper. Still the same components as the original.

Marhay70

dartboardio wrote: »

Yes it can be. You can ask your doctor for the generic version or cheaper version of anything

When i used to get the contraception depoprovera injection, I used to ask for the generic version as it was cheaper. Still the same components as the original.

I don't see how that is different from what I said. You can ask your Doctor for any medication you like but what he/she gives you will still be his/her choice, just in different packaging.
What you can't do is go and get a contraceptive injection if your doctor prescribes insulin.

Marhay70

Marhay70 wrote: »

Before we get back to the subject may I suggest to you that any pharmacist would be taking a big risk to deviate from a doctor's prescription.

It is true that excipients used in generics can be different and this can result in a massively different absorption profile in some patients. When someone moves to a generic they should always be wary of changes in how the drug impacts them. The same also goes for switching to the branded version from the generic.
I worked with a chemist who was previously with GSK. Had an interesting conversation about how essentially the different versions of Panadol, Actifast, etc. were essentially produced through messing with the excipients to modify absorption, even though the dose of paracetamol in each, and therefore associated safety data etc. was the same

Ted_YNWA

Marhay70 wrote: »

Before we get back to the subject may I suggest to you that any pharmacist would be taking a big risk to deviate from a doctor's prescription.

Deleted User wrote: »

It is true that excipients used in genetics can be different and this can result in a massively different absorption profile in some patients. When someone moves to a generic they should always be wary of changes in how the drug impacts them. The same also goes for switching to the branded version from the generic.
I worked with a chemist who was previously with GSK. Had an interesting conversation about how essentially the different versions of Panadol, Actifast, etc. were essentially produced through messing with the excipients to modify absorption, even though the dose of paracetamol in each, and therefore associated safety data etc. was the same

Mod

The vaccine is similar to a prescription in that the individual doesn't get to choose what they will get.

Can we get back to discussing the vaccine itself & not get bogged down in prescription chat.

CrabRevolution

Marhay70 wrote: »

I don't see how that is different from what I said. You can ask your Doctor for any medication you like but what he/she gives you will still be his/her choice, just in different packaging.
What you can't do is go and get a contraceptive injection if your doctor prescribes insulin.

Exactly. The different vaccines may be for the same purpose but that's where the similarity ends-they're not the same medicine like generics are to the branded drug.

In any case, there's no plan as of now for GPs and pharmacists to be distributing the Pfizer or Moderna jabs. Those who refuse the AZ jab will just not get vaccinated, they won't be offered a different vaccine.

Galwayguy35

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

AZ seems fine for the rest of us , but speaking for myself, I would not be happy if this is what my elderly but relatively healthy parents get. I've not seen the data that puts it into the same league as Pfizer /moderna for those of an older cohort.

And where there is money to be made the private sector will fill the gap, expect to see private companies offer vaccine choice soon enough, just like private companies are now offering testing choice.

How do you know it will be fine, if there is a doubt about the AZ vaccine the Government should be ordering the other ones.

If its not going to be given to old people I don't see why the rest of us should have to take it.

PCeeeee

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

How do you know it will be fine, if there is a doubt about the AZ vaccine the Government should be ordering the other ones.

If its not going to be given to old people I don't see why the rest of us should have to take it.

The doubt is about efficacy in older individuals.

Not about safety.

Not about efficacy in younger individuals.

astrofool

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

How do you know it will be fine, if there is a doubt about the AZ vaccine the Government should be ordering the other ones.

If its not going to be given to old people I don't see why the rest of us should have to take it.

It's been a long thread, people's changing immunity as they age has come up multiple times, are you just skipping over those, and centering in on any slightly negative posts?