COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Water John

Some trials have people from SA in the group. SA has 14% HIV positive. This lowers the trial result too. Doesn't mean it doesn't work.

astrofool

Water John wrote: »

Some trials have people from SA in the group. SA has 14% HIV positive. This lowers the trial result too. Doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Yes, if there's any advice people can follow now, pre-vaccine, it's to follow a lifestyle that improves your immune system.

• Don't smoke.
• Eat a diet high in fruits and vegetables.
• Exercise regularly.
• Maintain a healthy weight.
• If you drink alcohol, drink only in moderation.
• Get adequate sleep.
• Take steps to avoid infection, such as washing your hands frequently and cooking meats thoroughly.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/how-to-boost-your-immune-system

Water John

Another point on that is Dr. John Campbell was suggesting that to try and avoid medications, if one can, after getting the vaccine, as it might suppress the immune response Must check yesterdays podcast on that again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgBvEYC-xkE

braychelsea

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-vaccines-are-slowing-spread-of-virus-already-early-study-shows-lbwwgsvrh

“The preliminary data indicate a vaccine effect from the first dose in both younger adults and in older adults over 80. The effect seems to increase over time,” he said. “It is possible that we may get stronger and better long-term protection by a delayed second dose.”

No data released yet but a successful delayed second dose would be brilliant news for our rollout. Would mean we could essentially double the number of people receiving doses and could reach herd immunity much sooner. Think we are getting around 1.5 million+ vaccines from Pfizer alone in Q2.

gctest50

Water John wrote: »

Another point on that is Dr. John Campbell was suggesting that to try and avoid medications, if one can, after getting the vaccine, as it might suppress the immune response Must check yesterdays podcast on that again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgBvEYC-xkE

Bit misleading the way he throws around the doctor thing, he has : doctor of philosophy

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/dr-john-campbell-5256223b

All about the youtube views i suppose

Donald Trump

gctest50 wrote: »

Bit misleading the way he throws around the doctor thing, he has : doctor of philosophy

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/dr-john-campbell-5256223b

All about the youtube views i suppose

I didn't click on the link but Ph.D. is "doctor of philosophy". It doesn't mean that they studied what you might consider philosophy to be as a subject

He could have studied for a doctorate in the area of immunology, or in fine arts, and come away with a Ph.D. So you need more info. (Not that it is 100% foolproof anyway. An eejit or nutter can still get a Ph.D)

markodaly

Novavax and JnJ results are interesting in regards the new variants.

Novavax efficacy
95% Original Strain
85% British Strain
60% South Africa Strain

JnJ efficacy
72% in the US
66% in Latin America
57% in South Africa where that strain is dominant.

People who think the new strains or new strains to emerge, are not any problem, are putting their heads in the sand.

astrofool

markodaly wrote: »

Novavax and JnJ results are interesting in regards the new variants.

Novavax efficacy
95% Original Strain
85% British Strain
60% South Africa Strain

JnJ efficacy
72% in the US
66% in Latin America
57% in South Africa where that strain is dominant.

People who think the new strains or new strains to emerge, are not any problem, are putting their heads in the sand.

And what data have you neglected to include? (you get 3 guesses)

Wolf359f

Donald Trump wrote: »

I didn't click on the link but Ph.D. is "doctor of philosophy". It doesn't mean that they studied what you might consider philosophy to be as a subject

He could have studied for a doctorate in the area of immunology, or in fine arts, and come away with a Ph.D.

Guess we could always ask Dr. Jeremy Clarkson. He actually survived Covid, so may have more experience with the disease. He's a doctor just like Dr. Campbell!

Turtwig

Donald Trump wrote: »

I didn't click on the link but Ph.D. is "doctor of philosophy". It doesn't mean that they studied what you might consider philosophy to be as a subject

He could have studied for a doctorate in the area of immunology, or in fine arts, and come away with a Ph.D.

It's a bit iffy. He's a PhD in Nursing. So he is a Dr. Iffy bit is he frequently comments on medical matters using the Dr title that most would assume is associated with an MD.

brickster69

markodaly wrote: »

Novavax and JnJ results are interesting in regards the new variants.

Novavax efficacy
95% Original Strain
85% British Strain
60% South Africa Strain

JnJ efficacy
72% in the US
66% in Latin America
57% in South Africa where that strain is dominant.

People who think the new strains or new strains to emerge, are not any problem, are putting their heads in the sand.

They are calling it the Kent Strain on the news now. F#ck knows what is coming next.

markodaly

Micky 32 wrote: »

More comments from Mr O’Neill:

“”Professor Luke O'Neill said that by May or June, however, there should be enough of a relaxation of measures for people to meet and socialise outdoors as the vaccination programme takes effect. “”

“”Speaking on RTÉ's Brendan O’Connor programme, Prof O'Neill said that once the vaccination
programme covers the top four priority groups, deaths from the virus, along with hospitalisations and severe illness should decrease significantly. “”

“”He said international travel this year would continue to be difficult and while there is a chance people might be allowed to travel once vaccinated””

Kinda backs up what I said, this will go well into 2022 IMO, the world itself needs to be vaccinated and new variants kept under the lid, with a probable booster at some stage next year.

markodaly

astrofool wrote: »

And what data have you neglected to include? (you get 3 guesses)

The trend is clear, new variants decrease the efficacy of vaccines. That is all we know now.

There is a reason why France and other EU countries, 10 months into the pandemic, and on the cusp of mass vaccinations are suddenly closing their borders.

Donald Trump

Turtwig wrote: »

It's a bit iffy. He's a PhD in Nursing. So he is a Dr. Iffy bit is he frequently comments on medical matters using the Dr title that most would assume is associated with an MD.

Does he have it from the US? Clinical fields in the US have "doctorates" which are not quite the same as doctorates over here. There isn't much research involved and they usually do it in a year or two while working.


(I don't think they are called PhDs though)

astrofool

markodaly wrote: »

The trend is clear, new variants decrease the efficacy of vaccines. That is all we know now.

There is a reason why France and other EU countries, 10 months into the pandemic, and on the cusp of mass vaccinations are suddenly closing their borders.

You neglected to include the severity of the symptoms for those that did show symptoms, this is as important as the efficacy, try again.

hmmm

The US will be vaccinated by mid-year says J&J. Has anyone seen a J&J delivery schedule for the EU yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBHfQb4WtAU

markodaly

astrofool wrote: »

You neglected to include the severity of the symptoms for those that did show symptoms, this is as important as the efficacy, try again.

That is true to an extent, but we want to get to a stage where a vaccine protects one from getting infected in the first place, that is the goal, a goal that is harder to get to if variants pop up and start infecting people again, in larger numbers.

astrofool

hmmm wrote: »

The US will be vaccinated by mid-year says J&J. Has anyone seen a J&J delivery schedule for the EU yet?

200M with an option for 200M more:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-vaccine-eu-johnson-idUSKBN29I1EM

Approval would likely be about 3 weeks after submission.

Don't know how much they have ready to go, but between the approved 3, J&J and NovaVax, anyone vulnerable will be covered, and the delays will be in getting the non-vulnerable vaccinated.

Turtwig

Donald Trump wrote: »

Does he have it from the US? Clinical fields in the US have "doctorates" which are not quite the same as doctorates over here. There isn't much research involved and they usually do it in a year or two while working.


(I don't think they are called PhDs though)

PhD is in Nursing Education from the UK.

Vertigo100

markodaly wrote: »

That is true to an extent, but we want to get to a stage where a vaccine protects one from getting infected in the first place, that is the goal, a goal that is harder to get to if variants pop up and start infecting people again, in larger numbers.

That was never the goal. The goal was to prevent serious illness and death but I guess you knew that but just ignored it anyway.

astrofool

markodaly wrote: »

That is true to an extent, but we want to get to a stage where a vaccine protects one from getting infected in the first place, that is the goal, a goal that is harder to get to if variants pop up and start infecting people again, in larger numbers.

The goal is to stop people dying, it could have 5% efficacy if it stops the other 95% from dying, luckily it's way higher than that, and the existing vaccines based on the original variant has an efficacy for the new strains greater than many other vaccines that we use all the time.

When presenting data it must be efficacy + severity of symptoms, that is what matters, people are unnecessarily fixating on one number, and drawing crazy conclusions from it.

hmmm

astrofool wrote: »

Don't know how much they have ready to go, but between the approved 3, J&J and NovaVax, anyone vulnerable will be covered, and the delays will be in getting the non-vulnerable vaccinated.

And Curevac also which you'd have to assume will get approved.

J&J is the biggie for me in terms of how quickly we can get everyone vaccinated, I'm really interested to know how quickly they can supply the EU.

lbj666

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

How do you know it will be fine, if there is a doubt about the AZ vaccine the Government should be ordering the other ones.

If its not going to be given to old people I don't see why the rest of us should have to take it.

This is dumbfoundingly ill informed.

The data is very comprehensive for the 65 and under group. The safety data is comprehensive for all age groups and it is safe.

The efficacy data is limited for over 65 because the size of the trial in that group. But safety data checks out.

The UK concluded it was effective for the over 65s because,
- They looked at the under 65s who had chronic conditions, these would be at similar risk to over 65. This at risk groups had similar results to the healthy under 65.
- they looked at immunity test for over 65s it had similar results to the rest.
The EMA did similar..but the full report isn't out yet.

The German took a very face value look on the data side of things, it sounds like they were far less pragmatic about the whole thing.

Now the big question here in Ireland is , we have twice as much Pfizer coming here in the next two months, but it's more awkward to rollout among the community. Going with Astra means less over 70s will be done by March end than Pfizer, but Pfizer would be tougher to do and liable to have issues.
I think for over 70s the sooner availability and better efficacy trump's AZs easier logictics, but that's my view.

AZ will be more than enough for the non risk under 65s.

lbj666

markodaly wrote: »

Novavax and JnJ results are interesting in regards the new variants.

Novavax efficacy
95% Original Strain
85% British Strain
60% South Africa Strain

JnJ efficacy
72% in the US
66% in Latin America
57% in South Africa where that strain is dominant.

People who think the new strains or new strains to emerge, are not any problem, are putting their heads in the sand.

Before November last year, all those percentages would have been considered good to very good results for the original strain not to mind the new variants. The Pfizer blew things out of the water

And as mentioned already you are ignoring the massive reduction in hospitalizations in all those trials. It would be worth reading up the context of the novavax trial in SA too.

The near 100% prevention of infection would be the diamond crusted gold plated standard for any vacine. The above statistics will make a massive dent on severe cases hospitalizations and death.

Now of course there is nothing wrong with becoming ultra vigilant regarding travel restrictions and new strains. But it should not be played up as an inevitability that one is going to come along an bypass vaccine completely.

Also if the 1st generation vacines shows to be good base level of immunity at least to further strains and have been rolled out to everyone, you are well on the road to herd immunity to newer strains also.

Corben Dallas

hmmm wrote: »

The US will be vaccinated by mid-year says J&J. Has anyone seen a J&J delivery schedule for the EU yet?

No thanks... J&J Vaccine has reported only 60% effective against virus. That's almost only half as effective.

Lets focus on getting the Pfizer, Moderna and Aztra/Zeneca ones in large numbers here asap.

Wolf359f

Corben Dallas wrote: »

hmmm wrote: »

The US will be vaccinated by mid-year says J&J. Has anyone seen a J&J delivery schedule for the EU yet?

No thanks... J&J Vaccine has reported only 60% effective against virus. That's almost only half as effective.

Lets focus on getting the Pfizer, Moderna and Aztra/Zeneca ones in large numbers here asap.

I'll gladly take J&J, single dose and no hospitalizations in the vaccined group (with a second dose still in trial, which could be a booster shot for at risk)
You really think with a global pandemic countries or people can be fussy with what vaccine to take? You take what your given!

Deeper Blue

markodaly wrote: »

Novavax and JnJ results are interesting in regards the new variants.

Novavax efficacy
95% Original Strain
85% British Strain
60% South Africa Strain

JnJ efficacy
72% in the US
66% in Latin America
57% in South Africa where that strain is dominant.

People who think the new strains or new strains to emerge, are not any problem, are putting their heads in the sand.

How many people ended up in hospital in those trials?

Micky 32

El Sueño wrote: »

How many people ended up in hospital in those trials?

Yep some people are incapable of seeing beyond the headline.

Glenbhoy

Micky 32 wrote: »

Yep some people are incapable of seeing beyond the headline.

In fairness, that's all we'd been given to see!

FileNotFound

Glenbhoy wrote: »

In fairness, that's all we'd been given to see!

Safety data on J&J one looks good.

Something like 1.2 billion units ready for release on approval.

Given the 2 dose is an option efficacy could be improved.

Also working on vaccine variant to increase efficacy on the virus variants.

Seems like good new