COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

JTMan

Daily Mail reporting here that Boris Johnson might sent surplus jabs to Ireland in May.

- Arlene Foster supports move.
- No 10 is considering offering the Republic vaccines when the UK has a surplus. However, this is not expected to be until May.
- Oxford vaccine surpluses will be used.

Great news. Makes sense that NI help the RoI in order to help NI get out of this crisis sooner.

Gael23

With those results can they not go with one dose to vaccinate 1.2 billion rather than half that on 2 doses?
It’s the vaccine I hope I end up getting but at this point I don’t care.

jackboy

JTMan wrote: »

Daily Mail reporting here that Boris Johnson might sent surplus jabs to Ireland in May.

- Arlene Foster supports move.
- No 10 is considering offering the Republic vaccines when the UK has a surplus. However, this is not expected to be until May.
- Oxford vaccine surpluses will be used.

Great news. Makes sense that NI help the RoI in order to help NI get out of this crisis sooner.

Brilliant from Boris if true. Makes the EU look completely incompetent if that went ahead. Which is the point I presume.

jackboy

jackboy wrote: »

Brilliant from Boris if true. Makes the EU look completely incompetent if that went ahead. Which is the point I presume.

We will have loads of supply by may

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

We will have loads of supply by may

Ah yes but it's still "brilliant" by the genius that is Boris.

jackboy

Deleted User wrote: »

We will have loads of supply by may

All going well but as we have seen, until we have it, we don’t have it.

Malcomex

is_that_so wrote: »

Ah yes but it's still "brilliant" by the genius that is Boris.

Genius alright, promising something he'll never have to deliver

is_that_so

jackboy wrote: »

All going well but as we have seen, until we have it, we don’t have it.

That sounds awfully like Boris' promise.

Happydays2020

JTMan wrote: »

Daily Mail reporting here that Boris Johnson might sent surplus jabs to Ireland in May.

- Arlene Foster supports move.
- No 10 is considering offering the Republic vaccines when the UK has a surplus. However, this is not expected to be until May.
- Oxford vaccine surpluses will be used.

Great news. Makes sense that NI help the RoI in order to help NI get out of this crisis sooner.

Makes my skin crawl. I don’t want their left over vaccines. By the time May comes we will have our supplies.

jackboy

is_that_so wrote: »

That sounds awfully like Boris' promise.

It’s politics. It’s easy to slag off Boris, he has given plenty reason during the pandemic. However, to date the EU are performing worse, there is no doubt about that.

is_that_so

jackboy wrote: »

It’s politics. It’s easy to slag off Boris, he has given plenty reason during the pandemic. However, to date the EU are performing worse, there is no doubt about that.

Nah, it's Boris being the prize tool he is. It's also less about the EU than how countries are implementing and managing their programmes. We do look a lot more in control of ours.

Happydays2020

Good explanation of the manufacturing issues

https://twitter.com/adamjohnritchie/status/1355136430402580482?s=21

is_that_so

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Good explanation of the manufacturing issues

https://twitter.com/adamjohnritchie/status/1355136430402580482?s=21

There's a bit on the AstraZeneca side as well if blame is your thing. The very late notification, with what looked like a casual shrug of the shoulders, is what set all of this in motion. Ultimately this is about vaccine supplies and once there is a resolution to that, this will be a vaguely remembered story.

mean gene

JTMan wrote: »

Daily Mail reporting here that Boris Johnson might sent surplus jabs to Ireland in May.

- Arlene Foster supports move.
- No 10 is considering offering the Republic vaccines when the UK has a surplus. However, this is not expected to be until May.
- Oxford vaccine surpluses will be used.

Great news. Makes sense that NI help the RoI in order to help NI get out of this crisis sooner.

Any excess vaccine supplies from somewhere will be divided throughout Europe that's what we are signed into basically well get fcuk all

is_that_so

mean gene wrote: »

Any excess vaccine supplies from somewhere will be divided throughout Europe that's what we are signed into basically well get fcuk all

By May we will have at least 4 vaccines. The one shot J&J will be a huge boost to vaccination efforts.

Happydays2020

is_that_so wrote: »

There's a bit on the AstraZeneca side as well if blame is your thing. The very late notification, with what looked like a casual shrug of the shoulders, is what set all of this in motion. Ultimately this is about vaccine supplies and once there is a resolution to that, this will be a vaguely remembered story.

I was reading more about the manufacturing process as opposed to ‘blame’. This has damaged both the EU and AZ (with their response). The whole thing has become very politicised in recent weeks. Blame and nationalistic sentiments. Strange period.

What do you think of the WHO recommendation that once each country vaccinated the most vulnerable they should divert vaccines to other countries including developing countries who need supply?

is_that_so

Happydays2020 wrote: »

I was reading more about the manufacturing process as opposed to ‘blame’. This has damaged both the EU and AZ (with their response). The whole thing has become very politicised in recent weeks. Blame and nationalistic sentiments. Strange period.

What do you think of the WHO recommendation that once each country vaccinated the most vulnerable they should divert vaccines to other countries including developing countries who need supply?

I agree with it and I think the EU have already said as much. By summer they should certainly have some extra stocks to pass on.

jackboy

Happydays2020 wrote: »

What do you think of the WHO recommendation that once each country vaccinated the most vulnerable they should divert vaccines to other countries including developing countries who need supply?

That would be the moral thing to do. However, I don’t think citizens of most countries would be happy with not getting vaccinated this year and continue with lockdowns for the rest of the year and beyond. It’s not going to happen.

nommm

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Good explanation of the manufacturing issues

https://twitter.com/adamjohnritchie/status/1355136430402580482?s=21

Actually as someone who works in process science, that is very much on AstraZeneca. They were given lots of money to ensure that they had a robust process. The part about not being to be able to guarantee a yield on such a new process is just not true either and the comparison to cooking is disingenuous. The money the EU gave them should have ensured that adequate money went into process definition to ensure successful tech transfer to other sites.

https://twitter.com/adamjohnritchie/status/1355137343913660421?s=21

And this is clearly not true if they are getting different yields at different manufacturing sites.

Happydays2020

is_that_so wrote: »

I agree with it and I think the EU have already said as much. By summer they should certainly have some extra stocks to pass on.

Fair play to you. So basically we pause our programme after the most vulnerable groups are vaccinated. Which I think is ages above 65 and high risk. Then recommence when the same groups globally have their vaccines.

It will most likely mean a longer lock down.

is_that_so

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Fair play to you. So basically we pause our programme after the most vulnerable groups are vaccinated. Which I think is ages above 65 and high risk. Then recommence when the same groups globally have their vaccines.

It will most likely mean a longer lock down.

I don't think it means a pause at all and we'll see the results of a full vaccination programme soon enough, from Israel. Q2 expectations are that vaccine supplies will dwarf what we have at present. 100K a week vaccinated is what we should be seeing from April, maybe March if we are very lucky. For May and beyond that 1m a month is a definite target.

jackboy

nommm wrote: »

Actually as someone who works in process science, that is very much on AstraZeneca. They were given lots of money to ensure that they had a robust process. The part about not being to be able to guarantee a yield on such a new process is just not true either and the comparison to cooking is disingenuous. The money the EU gave them should have ensured that adequate money went into process definition to ensure successful tech transfer to other sites.

https://twitter.com/adamjohnritchie/status/1355137343913660421?s=21

And this is clearly not true if they are getting different yields at different manufacturing sites.

The manufacturing sites would likely not be identical. The would have different equipment and procedures. It is common for different sites to experience unique issues when transferring a process. Process definition is not enough. Transferring knowledge is notoriously difficult and even more so in a short period of time. Minor delays, like what are being seen are not unusual.

Happydays2020

is_that_so wrote: »

I don't think it means a pause at all and we'll see the results of a full vaccination programme soon enough, from Israel. Q2 expectations are that vaccine supplies will dwarf what we have at present. 100K a week vaccinated is what we should be seeing from April, maybe March if we are very lucky. For May and beyond that 1m a month is a definite target.

I suppose it depends on how much supply we give up.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/30/who-urges-britain-to-pause-covid-jabs-after-treating-vulnerable

Is there a case that it would be better to have slightly adjusted vaccines for the countries with the strains to make them more effective. And to invest in manufacturing plants elsewhere in the world to increase supply.

I should add that there is a bit of a colonial mindset in all this from the WHO. There are other vaccines globally including from China and Russia which are and will be used in developing countries. No doubt to exert soft power.

Tyrone212

Arlenes wee speech about giving vaccines is conditional regarding the protocol and she's just pretty much trolling. Sick woman.

polesheep

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Arlenes wee speech about giving vaccines is conditional regarding the protocol and she's just pretty much trolling. Sick woman.

Arlene can stick those vaccines where the Chinese are sticking their swabs.

funnydoggy

Quick one and mods, feel free to delete but is there a chance of forgery with the vaccine certs? Have a family member who won't take the vaccine but says they'll get a cert.

I kinda want to slap this family member.

Cole

lbj666 wrote: »

This is dumbfoundingly ill informed.

The data is very comprehensive for the 65 and under group. The safety data is comprehensive for all age groups and it is safe.

The efficacy data is limited for over 65 because the size of the trial in that group. But safety data checks out.

The UK concluded it was effective for the over 65s because,
- They looked at the under 65s who had chronic conditions, these would be at similar risk to over 65. This at risk groups had similar results to the healthy under 65.
- they looked at immunity test for over 65s it had similar results to the rest.
The EMA did similar..but the full report isn't out yet.

The German took a very face value look on the data side of things, it sounds like they were far less pragmatic about the whole thing.

Now the big question here in Ireland is , we have twice as much Pfizer coming here in the next two months, but it's more awkward to rollout among the community. Going with Astra means less over 70s will be done by March end than Pfizer, but Pfizer would be tougher to do and liable to have issues.
I think for over 70s the sooner availability and better efficacy trump's AZs easier logictics, but that's my view.

AZ will be more than enough for the non risk under 65s.

This is my take on things too. It might also ensure greater uptake of the vaccination among the over 70s. The AZ vaccine has been damaged in the minds of many...whether that is ill-informed or not is not going to be turned around in a couple of weeks. We can all say that people should read beyond the headlines etc. but the reality is that many don't. I try to inform myself as best as possible, but I even have a niggling doubt about AZ for my elderly parents.

is_that_so

Multipass wrote: »

I was wondering this too, though I want the vaccine. But if we see a situation where only the vaccinated are allowed to travel, and those of us still waiting around for it are not, or are subject to expensive pcr tests - then I would have no problem with forgery.

From the data so far we don't know how much it stops transmission, just one of the unworkable problems about that.

wheresthebeef

funnydoggy wrote: »

Quick one and mods, feel free to delete but is there a chance of forgery with the vaccine certs? Have a family member who won't take the vaccine but says they'll get a cert.

I kinda want to slap this family member.

The cert will most likely have a scannable barcode that verifies the accuracy of the printed details against that giant IT system the government has built. This is why your vaccination record is tied to your PPS number.

CrabRevolution

funnydoggy wrote: »

Quick one and mods, feel free to delete but is there a chance of forgery with the vaccine certs? Have a family member who won't take the vaccine but says they'll get a cert.

I kinda want to slap this family member.

You'd imagine that if proof of vaccination starts to carry legal weight it'll be linked to an official database. As was mentioned before, whatever about the will to enforce it in Ireland, other countries could well demand proof of vaccination before entry, and an easily forged paper cert won't cut it.