COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

brickster69

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Data from the AZ phase 3 trial in the US should be coming very soon (it was expected in January/February). This should clarify the issue of efficacy in older lives.

Yeah, you would imagine quite a lot of data coming through now from the Phase 4 trials going on in India and UK which should help.

Roger_007

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Data from the AZ phase 3 trial in the US should be coming very soon (it was expected in January/February). This should clarify the issue of efficacy in older lives.

If it turns out the the AZ vaccine is not effective, or not as effective, in older people, what are the going to do in the UK where they have vaccinated millions of older people with this vaccine without having much trial data on that cohort?

VG31

frozen3 wrote: »

Eastern countries and Baltic states would happily take Sputnik

They are not as stupid as us to believe that Russia bad, Europe goopropaganda

That's a very simplistic view to take. I would say that eastern Europeans are more likely not to want a Russian vaccine than western Europeans. Many eastern Europeans (Poland, Ukraine, Baltic states) are very suspicious of and even hostile to Russia based on decades of Soviet rule.

You'd probably have much more trouble convincing them than most Irish people.

harr

Roger_007 wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly was on the PK show just now. When Pat asked him if there was an IT system that manages the vaccine rollout, he said yes, (very hesitantly), there was a system in place and yes, (even more hesitantly), that GPs and Pharmacists would be able to access it.
It’s difficult to know with Donnelly. He comes across as not being on top of his brief. I’m afraid I didn’t believe him about the IT system. I don’t think he was expecting the question.

Yes an IT system but from what decade, he is probably presuming they have an IT system in place.
He definitely isn’t one to be asking because he is clueless the best of times .

timsey tiger

Roger_007 wrote: »

If it turns out the the AZ vaccine is not effective, or not as effective, in older people, what are the going to do in the UK where they have vaccinated millions of older people with this vaccine without having much trial data on that cohort?

blame the EU

lbj666

Roger_007 wrote: »

If it turns out the the AZ vaccine is not effective, or not as effective, in older people, what are the going to do in the UK where they have vaccinated millions of older people with this vaccine without having much trial data on that cohort?

Lets just forget about the idea that it will be useless.
There was enough immunisation test data and data from other risk groups for the UK to conclude it will be effective. Aswell studies are showing hospitalisations were prevented nearly 100% so it really has a very high level to fall from.

If its less than hoped which is possible in the context of new variants especially, they ll have to study whats happening and reassess who remains at risk see what options there are with boosters etc. doesnt nessecarily mean everyone over 65 remains at risk and will have to go again, more likely those with specific unlying conditions if they can narrow it down. This is going to be the case even if hospital and infection levels dont necessitate restrictions at all, in a similar way the flu situation is constantly assessed.

Keep in mind the alternative for the UK was to wait for enough pfizer to come along , which would just prolongue a situation where elderly having no protection at all.

Apogee

Roger_007 wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly was on the PK show just now. When Pat asked him if there was an IT system that manages the vaccine rollout, he said yes, (very hesitantly), there was a system in place and yes, (even more hesitantly), that GPs and Pharmacists would be able to access it.
It’s difficult to know with Donnelly. He comes across as not being on top of his brief. I’m afraid I didn’t believe him about the IT system. I don’t think he was expecting the question.

It was also mentioned in the interview that NIAC are suggesting, where possible, that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are prioritised for over 65s.

CMO/HSE are currently working through the logistics of implementing NIAC's advice.

Irish Stones

eigrod wrote: »

Get the vaccination when your category of people comes around. It’s not known how long your current immunity will last.

This is a bit in contrast with what is said here
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116149194&postcount=8402

Irish Stones

seamus wrote: »

The data around immunity in people who've had Covid is quite piecemeal. A lot of studies are ongoing and have yet to produce any papers.

The vaccine trials by contrast are well documented and the effectiveness well detailed and known.

Do you think that not studying the people who recovered was intentionally done?
I mean, the scientists had millions of cases to study, the biggest trial panel ever, and they let them go?

corcaigh07

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Good news with the Oxford vaccine. It cuts transmission.

But what about the variants that don't exist yet?

Micky 32

corcaigh07 wrote: »

But what about the variants that don't exist yet?

What about other viruses that don’t exist yet? :rolleyes:

So many what if this what if that. …..

Cork2021

More Oxford news

https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1356950309545869312?s=21

Cole

Apogee wrote: »

It was also mentioned in the interview that NIAC are suggesting, where possible, that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are prioritised for over 65s.

CMO/HSE are currently working through the logistics of implementing NIAC's advice.

Colum Henry is on Radio 1 now saying/confirming that Pfizer and Moderna will be used for the over 65s, based on advice from NIAC.

And GPs will be involved in rolling out Pfizer and Moderna.

brickster69

Roger_007 wrote: »

If it turns out the the AZ vaccine is not effective, or not as effective, in older people, what are the going to do in the UK where they have vaccinated millions of older people with this vaccine without having much trial data on that cohort?

I think with the AZ/Oxford partnering up with Sputnik a few months ago to develop a new vaccine and approval due soon on the current one , should be fine in the short term. No idea how many they have pre-ordered mind.

MerlinSouthDub

brickster69 wrote: »

I think with the AZ/Oxford partnering up with Sputnik a few months ago to develop a new vaccine and approval due soon on the current one , should be fine in the short term. No idea how many they have pre-ordered mind.

There was also a study about combining Oxford with an mRNA vaccine which showed promising results (small study) - actually better immune response than two doses of a single vaccine

titan18

Cole wrote: »

Colum Henry is on Radio 1 now saying/confirming that Pfizer and Moderna will be used for the over 65s, based on advice from NIAC.

And GPs will be involved in rolling out Pfizer and Moderna.

What GP has the storage needed to roll out Pfizer

Gael23

titan18 wrote: »

What GP has the storage needed to roll out Pfizer

It can be kept for a few days in normal fridges so they will just have to make sire a reliable and efficient order/delivery system is in place

Russman

Cole wrote: »

Colum Henry is on Radio 1 now saying/confirming that Pfizer and Moderna will be used for the over 65s, based on advice from NIAC.

And GPs will be involved in rolling out Pfizer and Moderna.

Does this mean they might potentially start giving out AZ/Oxford to groups below the over 65s, before they get the 65+ finished ?

lbj666

titan18 wrote: »

What GP has the storage needed to roll out Pfizer

The delivery and appointment system will have to be very on point and robust. ie. say GP clinic takes 100 appointments for the a week , 100 jabs must be delievered monday and all used by friday roughly speaking given its has to be administered 5 days after thawing.

stephenjmcd

To be honest its not the worst thing that could happen if its Pfizer and Moderna for older age groups and AstraZeneca for other coherts and the young.

You could potentially rollout in parallel hence speeding up the process and getting further down the list quicker.

I also say IF because this isn't confirmed yet and Colm Henry didn't confirm it he said the advice "generally" is to give Pfizer and Moderna to older people. Stopped short of giving absolute clarity.

I'd rather wait until its confirmed but you could pivot the plan in a positive manner.

Russman

Gael23 wrote: »

It can be kept for a few days in normal fridges so they will just have to make sire a reliable and efficient order/delivery system is in place

That's going to be a nightmare, wasn't there a story about a batch of vaccine having to be binned in Germany because someone took it upstairs and that journey ruined it ?

frozen3

VG31 wrote: »

That's a very simplistic view to take. I would say that eastern Europeans are more likely not to want a Russian vaccine than western Europeans. Many eastern Europeans (Poland, Ukraine, Baltic states) are very suspicious of and even hostile to Russia based on decades of Soviet rule.

You'd probably have much more trouble convincing them than most Irish people.

Are they nervous when Germany come to visit as well? Incase they want to stay again?

Propaganda and that stuff needs to go

Apogee

Russman wrote: »

That's going to be a nightmare, wasn't there a story about a batch of vaccine having to be binned in Germany because someone took it upstairs and that journey ruined it ?

It's certainly more complicated, but Israel have relied solely of the Pfizer vaccine by distributing it to over 300 vaccination centres from 1 central hub.

The Moderna vaccine is also more easily handled:

CA Ministry of Health wrote:

Pfizer-BioNTech Vaccine
If placed in an ULT portable unit (-80o C to -60oC), the vaccines can go back into an ULT unit. To the extent possible, vials should be kept in the tray during transport. If this is not possible, the vials need to be securely stored (not rolling around) in the storage device.
If placed in an insulated container for +2oC to +8oC temperature range, the vaccines should go back into a refrigerator and not be refrozen. Note: If the vaccines do not need to be discarded due to a temperature excursion, these doses need to be used within 5 days (120 hours), minus any time in the container.

Moderna Vaccine
If placed in a portable freezer unit (-25oC to -15oC), the vaccines can go back into a freezer unit. To the extent possible, vials should be kept in the boxes during transport. If this is not possible, any individual vials need to be securely stored (not rolling around) in the storage device.
If placed in an insulated container for +2oC to +8oC temperature range, the vaccines should go back into a refrigerator and not be refrozen. Note: If the vaccines do not need to be discarded due to a temperature excursion, these doses need to be used within 30 days minus any time in the container.

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/programs/publichealth/coronavirus/docs/vaccine/vaccine_storage_handling_pfizer_moderna.pdf

Water John

That Pfizer vaccine cannot be moved too often.
Hooked, the issue of a Covid positive person getting vaccinated was discussed on CNN last night, with Sanja Gupta. Those people would possibly be fine just getting one vaccination shot but the whole thing would be a logistical nightmare.

Cole

Colm Henry did acknowledge that Pfizer via GPs wouldn't be entirely straight forward, but it is doable...where there's a will, there's a way.

Cole

Russman wrote: »

Does this mean they might potentially start giving out AZ/Oxford to groups below the over 65s, before they get the 65+ finished ?

He was asked that, but I didn't catch his answer...I guess potentially it could happen.

Cole

stephenjmcd wrote: »

To be honest its not the worst thing that could happen if its Pfizer and Moderna for older age groups and AstraZeneca for other coherts and the young.

You could potentially rollout in parallel hence speeding up the process and getting further down the list quicker.

I also say IF because this isn't confirmed yet and Colm Henry didn't confirm it he said the advice "generally" is to give Pfizer and Moderns to older people. Stopped short of giving absolute clarity.

I'd rather wait until its confirmed but you could pivot the plan in a positive manner.

Yes, you're right. It would be a hell of a 'backtracking' though if they decided otherwise.

frozen3

stephenjmcd wrote: »

To be honest its not the worst thing that could happen if its Pfizer and Moderna for older age groups and AstraZeneca for other coherts and the young.

You could potentially rollout in parallel hence speeding up the process and getting further down the list quicker.

I also say IF because this isn't confirmed yet and Colm Henry didn't confirm it he said the advice "generally" is to give Pfizer and Moderns to older people. Stopped short of giving absolute clarity.

I'd rather wait until its confirmed but you could pivot the plan in a positive manner.

If it was done initially yeah, younger health care workers etc could have gotten AZ instead and we'd have more supply

Now we have what 400,000 people aged 65+ that need mRNA

When will we have 800,000 doses of mRNA?

bodhrandude

My brother messaged me from Scotland today he is due to get his vaccine on 10th February, he is 64 with no underlying conditions. Just wondering when we'll get to category 7 over here which is my group, I'm 55 with underlying conditions.

GeorgeBailey

Thing is though, if the initial reports that astrazeneca reduces transmission are true and also that the biggest spreaders of covid are young people, then young people getting astra will prevent the over 65s from getting covid anyway (or at least significantly reduce their chances of getting it). Right?