COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

SheepsClothing

SheepsClothing wrote: »

Why would they waste their time? They know as well as anyone that the EU will not authorise a Chinese vaccine for use. It's politics.

What makes you think that? The reason Sinovac may not be approved is it seems to be the least effective vaccine out there and there are many better options. The reason China won’t apply is supply of vaccine for them is a play for soft power

Water John

Govn'ts need to address this issue by formulating a policy, based on community leaders. Some of the Christian churches in black districts in the US are to the fore in setting up vaccinatiion centres.

Stark

SheepsClothing wrote: »

Why would they waste their time? They know as well as anyone that the EU will not authorise a Chinese vaccine for use. It's politics.

There's a good chance Sputnik will be approved if they apply. Don't think the Russians are on much better terms than the Chinese. EMA just care about the data at the end of the day.

Cluedo Monopoly

hynesie08 wrote: »

WRT Malta, what the hell does this bit mean?

Who are they buying from?

The Kinehans.

Melanchthon

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Outside a handful of countries, which happen to include 2 that we consume as lot of media from, nearly all the countries near the top of the vaccine rollout list are EU countries. What the EU have done is ensure the entire bloc has equal access. In the absence of this type of deal it would be an ugly free for all with some places with no access as prices get pushed higher and higher.

For context look at how the likes of Canada, Australia and Japan are doing

It's not a like for like comparison though, I'd be happy to be in those countries for the last year as they have relatively little restrictions so it would be much more liveable in general and haven't had to stop half as many people working so much better economically for a bunch of people.

Belt

How many vaccines in total has Ireland received to date? Just wondering if the rollout is in line with delivery or slipping. I'm seeing we vaccinated 219k by 3rd Feb, is that the latest figure?

Corruptedmorals

It will be great to see the community doses being rolled out this month. Looks like they have a good system in place with hubs and grouping small practices.

Even in hospitals it can be difficult. Priority groups are fine but when you don't know how big the delivery will be and have staff in/out from covid and isolation and doctors who received the first dose somewhere else...tough enough.

I got the second dose of Pfizer on Friday, 18 days after the first dose. Done deliberately before the weekend due to the much higher prevalence of side effects from the second dose. Sure enough, they're only beginning to wear off now. It's good to see the immune response in action though.

Danzy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sinovac is one of the least effective out there, and have not even applied for eu authorisation

It is but in the absence of an efficient EU rollout, what choice do States have.

Wait for the EMA or deal with the crisis.

quokula

Melanchthon wrote: »

It's not a like for like comparison though, I'd be happy to be in those countries for the last year as they have relatively little restrictions so it would be much more liveable in general and haven't had to stop half as many people working so much better economically for a bunch of people.

It's not a like for like comparison between us and the UK's 110,000 dead and rising either though. Countries in an absolute meltdown crisis like the UK paid through the nose to get the vaccine ASAP while also skipping proper due diligence on analysing the trial data and not even sticking to the correct two dose regimen and timings. Countries like Australia that are under control can be a lot more methodical.

The EU's been somewhere in the middle, getting it fairly quickly but not without first properly assessing all the data before approving it and making sure it's done properly and fairly. The EU also spread its bets across many different vaccines as it was a pure guessing game at the time of negotiations last Summer to estimate which vaccines by which manufacturers would be ready first.

Danzy

josip wrote: »

Vucic is just blowing his own oversized trumpet and trying to claim credit for something that he has had nothing to do with.
He also doesn't allow anyone else in the country to have a trumpet.

He seems to be taking the opportunity to trumpet about saving Serbian lives, whatever others want or do.

The EU cluster fuc to the programme presented that opportunity to him, he just replicated views from the German cabinet and others, are we to pretend they are suspect as well.

You sound like a Haughey loyalist in the 80s, on message no matter what.

Danzy

quokula wrote: »

It's not a like for like comparison between us and the UK's 110,000 dead and rising either though. Countries in an absolute meltdown crisis like the UK paid through the nose to get the vaccine ASAP while also skipping proper due diligence on analysing the trial data and not even sticking to the correct two dose regimen and timings. Countries like Australia that are under control can be a lot more methodical.

The EU's been somewhere in the middle, getting it fairly quickly but not without first properly assessing all the data before approving it and making sure it's done properly and fairly. The EU also spread its bets across many different vaccines as it was a pure guessing game at the time of negotiations last Summer to estimate which vaccines by which manufacturers would be ready first.

By Jingo, right or wrong.

Come on lad, call a fu,, up for what it is, there are many leading Europeans, who hate Brexit, who are.

Blind loyalty is no loyalty.

Danzy

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

It will be great to see the community doses being rolled out this month. Looks like they have a good system in place with hubs and grouping small practices.

Even in hospitals it can be difficult. Priority groups are fine but when you don't know how big the delivery will be and have staff in/out from covid and isolation and doctors who received the first dose somewhere else...tough enough.

I got the second dose of Pfizer on Friday, 18 days after the first dose. Done deliberately before the weekend due to the much higher prevalence of side effects from the second dose. Sure enough, they're only beginning to wear off now. It's good to see the immune response in action though.

Great to hear, may you have every success this year and after.

Water John

Countries varied in getting things right and wrong throughout the whole Covid emergency. Ireland overall fared reasonably, not prefect by any means, but the UK and the US come well down the bottom half of the list.

Water John

AZ vaccine less effective against SA variant:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/07/oxford-covid-jab-less-effective-against-south-african-variant-study-finds

Maybe the mRNA vaccines are the way to go? In fairness the experts are doing their best to muddle through this massive human experiment.

Deeper Blue

Water John wrote: »

AZ vaccine less effective against SA variant:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/07/oxford-covid-jab-less-effective-against-south-african-variant-study-finds

Maybe the mRNA vaccines are the way to go? In fairness the experts are doing their best to muddle through this massive human experiment.

Similar to the Novavax results by the sounds of things

The newspaper said none of the more than 2,000 trial participants had been hospitalised or died.

ACitizenErased

"The company said it believed its vaccine could protect against severe disease, given that the neutralising antibody activity was equivalent to that of other Covid-19 vaccines that have demonstrated protection against severe disease."

greenheep

ACitizenErased wrote: »

"The company said it believed its vaccine could protect against severe disease, given that the neutralising antibody activity was equivalent to that of other Covid-19 vaccines that have demonstrated protection against severe disease."

Yes but everyone in the trial were young healthy adults so you wouldn't expect too many of them to get sever disease anyway so seems it's still dealing in "could" and "should". Lets hope though

JTMan

Sunday Times reports here (paywall):

- 1,000 nurses to assist the HSE’s delivery of Covid-19 vaccines to the general population.
- Nurse on Call has sent out emails to all nurses on its database seeking those who can work at least two 12-hour shifts a week.
- 8 main vaccination hubs and 6 minor.
- Opening hours are 8am to 8pm seven days a week.

Diarmuid

vrusinov wrote: »

Folks, we've been in this ****e for almost a year now. One day, or even a few weeks will hardly make a difference in a grand scheme of things.

Tell that to those 50 odd people dying each day. Every day delayed is additional unnecessary deaths and illness

frozen3

El Sueño wrote: »

Similar to the Novavax results by the sounds of things

Worse I think, AZ was tested on young people

They don't tend to get severe disease

You'd have to wonder about Novavax too

Was that 49% a fair result? The SA strain took over as the main variant in January, well after Novavax trial begun, some regions might not have had that variant circulating at all.

mRNA are not infallible either, yes they seem to be more effective at stopping you getting infected but once infected you are more likely to end up in hospital vs AZ etc

Pfizer in its trials had hospitalisations and in Israel 5% of the infected so far end up in hospital, infections are minisicule though, it's 90% efficacious, which is crazy good

Seems to me at this early stage, we will still need to keep out of the sun for a while

mRNA = High factor suncreen lotion

Adenovirus = After sun lotion

War against mutants has really begun, E484K vs 1st gen vaccines, looks like battle is being lost, 2nd gen will be rushed in and ready by Spring imo

Hmob

frozen3 wrote: »

Worse I think, AZ was tested on young people

They don't tend to get severe disease

You'd have to wonder about Novavax too

Was that 49% a fair result? The SA strain took over as the main variant in January, well after Novavax trial begun, some regions might not have had that variant circulating at all.

mRNA are not infallible either, yes they seem to be more effective at stopping you getting infected but once infected you are more likely to end up in hospital vs AZ etc

Pfizer in its trials had hospitalisations and in Israel 5% of the infected so far end up in hospital, infections are minisicule though, it's 90% efficacious, which is crazy good

Seems to me at this early stage, we will still need to keep out of the sun for a while

mRNA = High factor suncreen lotion

Adenovirus = After sun lotion

War against mutants has really begun, E484K vs 1st gen vaccines, looks like battle is being lost, 2nd gen will be rushed in and ready by Spring imo

If the 1st gen prevent most hospitalizations

It might be wise to step back and not rush in securing early 2nd gens

stephenjmcd

frozen3 wrote: »

mRNA are not infallible either, yes they seem to be more effective at stopping you getting infected but once infected you are more likely to end up in hospital vs AZ etc

Ah come off it thats highly misleading what I've quoted above, Pfizer had 1 severe case in its trial in the vaccine group while Moderna had none. You can't say your more likely to end up in hospital if you've had a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine compared to AZ and get infected post vaccination, it's simply not true.

They all do a great job at preventing severe infection.

Severe cases = hospitalisations

Happydays2020

is_that_so wrote: »

Yeah, the IT, for some reason, have really had it in for the CMO since March. It bemuses me to see they can still put all of this down to a single solitary person, despite the 50 odd people on NPHET and the NIAC and HSE input on all of this. You can now add Spain to the growing list of countries who've done the same on AZ. It really is all about the low numbers of older people in their trial.

Is it just about that? Or is it also about three months between the shots?

With Pfizer and Moderna there is a good chance we will have our over 70’s vaccinated by the end of April. That will have its benefits.

With slow supplies of AZ it would probably be June/July.

Pete_Cavan

Diarmuid wrote: »

Tell that to those 50 odd people dying each day. Every day delayed is additional unnecessary deaths and illness

The people included in the deaths announcements now most likely got the virus around Christmas or shortly after when it was very prevalent due to the easing of restrictions prior to that. We now have had six weeks of Level 5 restrictions so there are a lot few people getting the virus now.

Cork2021

Haven’t posted in a few days!
Some absolute waffle going on!
There’s a certain amount here as well that seem to be enjoying the fact they think vaccines might fail against variants. Revelling in it. The facts are if you read through this thread and Twitter etc that the vaccines do work and stop SEVERE DISEASE!! That’s the goal to stop deaths and hospitalisations!
Stop this fûcking doom rhetoric!
Now back to the snow that could but probably won’t happen.

is_that_so

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Is it just about that? Or is it also about three months between the shots?

With Pfizer and Moderna there is a good chance we will have our over 70’s vaccinated by the end of April. That will have its benefits.

With slow supplies of AZ it would probably be June/July.

Well, it is the explanation given for it. Ours is more nuanced in that they say mRNA vaccines are a known better outcome for older groups. The current US AZ trial may change that position as may future studies, a point Colm Henry made.

Van.Bosch

If they are holding Pfizer and Moderna for the over 70s, where are the AZ going now? I thought I saw yesterday they were going on healthcare workers but I thought they were largely done?

frozen3

Hmob wrote: »

If the 1st gen prevent most hospitalizations

It might be wise to step back and not rush in securing early 2nd gens

Letting it run free and infect, brings it own risks, ideally you dont want a novel disease circulating and infecting

I don't think Governments will accept letting us get infected, look at the panic in the UK.Hancock and Boris have the army out testing door to door of millions of people for E484K strains

Do they know something about AZ vs E484K, the national vaccine that has them worried?

Asymptomatic Covid is silent but not harmless, hearts, lungs have all been seen to be distressed, doctors are worried about long term effects

is_that_so

frozen3 wrote: »

Worse I think, AZ was tested on young people

They don't tend to get severe disease

You'd have to wonder about Novavax too

Was that 49% a fair result? The SA strain took over as the main variant in January, well after Novavax trial begun, some regions might not have had that variant circulating at all.

mRNA are not infallible either, yes they seem to be more effective at stopping you getting infected but once infected you are more likely to end up in hospital vs AZ etc

Pfizer in its trials had hospitalisations and in Israel 5% of the infected so far end up in hospital, infections are minisicule though, it's 90% efficacious, which is crazy good

Seems to me at this early stage, we will still need to keep out of the sun for a while

mRNA = High factor suncreen lotion

Adenovirus = After sun lotion

War against mutants has really begun, E484K vs 1st gen vaccines, looks like battle is being lost, 2nd gen will be rushed in and ready by Spring imo

Not sure what you're trying to do with this post, frighten yourself, the natives or just regurgitate a bad X-Men plot! The primary aim of vaccines is to prevent severe cases, in an ideal scenario it will block the disease entirely. Nobody will care if there are 50,000 of us with sniffles, if the severe cases are non-existent.
You're very ambitious with the 2nd generation claims, end of Spring is May and boosters are not 2nd generation.

Happydays2020

Van.Bosch wrote: »

If they are holding Pfizer and Moderna for the over 70s, where are the AZ going now? I thought I saw yesterday they were going on healthcare workers but I thought they were largely done?

A very good question. I guess the supply will determine the timing on the other priority groups who will receive the vaccine.