COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Hmob

Will the UK be the first to start mixing vaccines?

Oxford Professor saying it has a lot of potential

is_that_so

Hmob wrote: »

Will the UK be the first to start mixing vaccines?

Oxford Professor saying it has a lot of potential

They should stop talking up things they haven't tested. For now, that's guesswork until they do but Oxford are open to looking at it.

JacksonHeightsOwn

is_that_so wrote: »

From next Monday it'll be the over 80s and they'll work their way down. All first jabs by mid April is the plan for over 70s. They'll be using the AZ concurrently for other younger groups.

Thanks for that,

Good to hear, I wonder who'll be getting the Oxford one seeing as the over 70's won't be yet, will they be contacting the over 65's then, presumably?

is_that_so

chrisbonnie wrote: »

Thanks for that,

Good to hear, I wonder who'll be getting the Oxford one seeing as the over 70's won't be yet, will they be contacting the over 65's then, presumably?

For now it looks like a cohort of HCWs, 110,000 in total will be vaccinated with it and assuming 20K AZ a week that's the middle to the end of March for first shots.

irishlad.

Good to see the first steps have been made towards a more detailed vaccination page

https://covid-19.geohive.ie/pages/vaccinations

Stark

So we still haven't received any additional Moderna since that additional shipment of 3800

is_that_so

Stark wrote: »

So we still haven't received any additional Moderna since that additional shipment of 3800

Not sure but they need to bring up capacity anyway. They signed a deal with Recipharm last month. Think they cut supplies this month too.

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/moderna-clinches-fourth-vaccine-manufacturing-tie-up-sweden-s-recipharm

Micky 32

mikelike wrote: »

I actually like the honesty for a change, we all know it's going to be big problem, telling us straight was nice. It rendered Oxford vaccine DOA with that one deletion, she sounded scared tbh and nothing wrong with that, NZ, AUZ etc tell there citizens don't travel and they understand it.

To protect our vaccine's don't travel abroad, that should be the message the government plaster everywhere now.

Should 50 years do it? Or maybe extend it to 100 years maybe just to be safe from the variants? :rolleyes:

Water John

They will need to stockpile some of the Moderna vaccine initially.

firemansam4

Micky 32 wrote: »

I’m guessing when you see statements like this from De Gascun quarantine, finger wagging and fines for travellers is going to be a permanent fixture for many years to come even if we’re all vaccinated. Not great news for people like myself that have familes in other countries.


De Gascun:

“Dr Cillian De Gascun, Director of the National Virus Reference Laboratory, said they were concerned about the variant originating in South Africa.

He said we still need to try and prevent the introduction of that variant into the country. There are 11 cases of the so-called South African variant here - all travel-related and not from community transmission - and none of the variant that first originated in Brazil.

The variant first reported in England continues to dominate among new infections reported here.

"Variants will continue to emerge. We're focused on three, but it's likely there will be more in the coming months and years," Dr De Gascun told the media briefing.

He said we need to reduce the chance for the virus to replicate and reproduce, because that is when mutations occur.“”

No way will they ever allow travel again because of the risk of this f******g obsession with mutants.

I may have to consider emigration if this doesn’t change.

Sorry for the rant… losing interest in the vaccines very quickly …

I can understand the frustration from some on this, and I myself have family I may not see now for a longer period because of this.

However I think the travel restrictions may be necessary.
Imagine a scenario where we get a good proportion of our population vaccinated and start seeing the benefits coming from it, only for it all to be undone by a new variant that potentially evades these current vaccines...

I don't think we will be looking at many years of travel restrictions, if other countries manage to get infection levels down to low levels then the risk of new variants becomes far smaller, we could possibly see the introduction of safe destinations or a green list again maybe.

dan786

The HSE is setting up an online registration for remaining healthcare works who are yet to receive the vaccine. Its going live tomorrow through their website. I assume they may have similar setup for general public once the other groups are done.

Micky 32

stephenjmcd wrote: »

He wasn't inferring anything about travel.

“”He said we still need to try and prevent the introduction of that variant into the country. There are 11 cases of the so-called South African variant here - all travel-related and not from community transmission “”


Glynn also said “ even when we get numbers low we can’t import new variants into the country”

Micky 32

firemansam4 wrote: »

I can understand the frustration from some on this, and I myself have family I may not see now for a longer period because of this.

However I think the travel restrictions may be necessary.
Imagine a scenario where we get a good proportion of our population vaccinated and start seeing the benefits coming from it, only for it all to be undone by a new variant that potentially evades these current vaccines...

I don't think we will be looking at many years of travel restrictions, if other countries manage to get infection levels down to low levels then the risk of new variants becomes far smaller, we could possibly see the introduction of safe destinations or a green list again maybe.

I have no doubt the restrictions are necessary at the moment. But i’d hate to think that if say 2 countries completed their vaccination program and the vaccines do work that there would still be travel restrictions between said 2 countries.

CruelSummer

Micky 32 wrote: »

“”He said we still need to try and prevent the introduction of that variant into the country. There are 11 cases of the so-called South African variant here - all travel-related and not from community transmission “”


Glynn also said “ even when we get numbers low we can’t import new variants into the country”

This issue I have with this is today it’s the South African, Kent and Brazilian variant we hear about. It seems there are more variants emerging in the US also. It could be the Indian, Russian, you name it strain discovered next month and so on and so forth. So if the virus keeps mutating, how can the vaccines keep up? And at what point do we just try and protect the vulnerable through vaccination as I don’t see how anywhere would manage to continuously have 70% of their population vaccinated to generate herd immunity against a constantly changing virus.

DaSilva

The discussion of vaccine evading variants seems still really speculative to me. First off, if these variants are due to selective pressure from population immunity, then aren't they probably just going to arise here also given its endemic? Second, so far we have some evidence suggesting a decrease in neutralising antibodies and what looks like a phase 2 trial in S.Africa showing reduced efficacy where the endpoint is mild illness, does this imply anything about reduced efficacy of severe illness? I thought we were long past the idea of these vaccines giving sterilising immunity.

Some people are putting forward the idea that this virus is able to mutate sufficiently to render all previous immunity useless. Folks if that's the case, nothing we do will end this pandemic...

Hmob

Isn't there talk of super-vaccines that are effective against all strains?

polesheep

CruelSummer wrote: »

This issue I have with this is today it’s the South African, Kent and Brazilian variant we hear about. It seems there are more variants emerging in the US also. It could be the Indian, Russian, you name it strain discovered next month and so on and so forth. So if the virus keeps mutating, how can the vaccines keep up? And at what point do we just try and protect the vulnerable through vaccination as I don’t see how anywhere would manage to continuously have 70% of their population vaccinated to generate herd immunity against a constantly changing virus.

Spot on. I posted something similar yesterday adding that we might as well open up after the vulnerable have been vaccinated as there is no chance of the healthy general population lining up for a fresh vaccine every time a new variant arises.

So this has appeared. It's a slide from the AZ presentation that for some reason wasn't doing the rounds yesterday. It concerns the affect of the variant on T-Cell immunity. It shows that 76 of the 87 TCB sites were NOT impacted by the mutation in the variant. It means that the T-Cell response should still be highly effective.

Micky 32

polesheep wrote: »

Spot on. I posted something similar yesterday adding that we might as well open up after the vulnerable have been vaccinated as there is no chance of the healthy general population lining up for a fresh vaccine every time a new variant arises.

Don’t we do that with the flu vaccine every year though? It still does a good job. I haven’t had the flu in 10 years due to vaccine herd immunity and i don’t even take the flu vaccine.

polesheep

Micky 32 wrote: »

Don’t we do that with the flu vaccine every year though? It still does a good job. I haven’t had the flu in 10 years due to vaccine herd immunity and i don’t even take the flu vaccine.

Yes, indeed we do. That's the whole point. If it's going to be like the flu vaccine and taken annually or whenever by the vulnerable, then as soon as the vulnerable have been vaccinated let's get on with opening up.

Hardyn

Hardyn wrote: »

So this has appeared. It's a slide from the AZ presentation that for some reason wasn't doing the rounds yesterday. It concerns the affect of the variant on T-Cell immunity. It shows that 76 of the 87 TCB sites were NOT impacted by the mutation in the variant. It means that the T-Cell response should still be highly effective.

My understanding is that this is what prevents an infection from becoming a serious infection? But also that this response tends to be lower in older people - in general, not just as part of vaccine response

JDD

CruelSummer wrote: »

This issue I have with this is today it’s the South African, Kent and Brazilian variant we hear about. It seems there are more variants emerging in the US also. It could be the Indian, Russian, you name it strain discovered next month and so on and so forth. So if the virus keeps mutating, how can the vaccines keep up? And at what point do we just try and protect the vulnerable through vaccination as I don’t see how anywhere would manage to continuously have 70% of their population vaccinated to generate herd immunity against a constantly changing virus.

Tell me if I'm wrong here.

The South African, Brazilian and UK variants have all originated from countries where the initial virus was rampant last year. Presumably with that many people infected in a population it allows the virus a higher chance to mutate, as what has happened here.

It would seem to me that it would be likely that there will be another variant or two from the US, given the widespread nature of their own breakouts.

It seems logical though that the rate of mutation must slow down once lots of people are vaccinated. It seems so far that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines work well against the UK and SA variants. I don't know about the Brazillian variant or whether they will be effective against other as yet undiscovered variants, but we have to keep our fingers crossed. So once we have a large swathe of the population vaccinated it's unlikely that many more variants will come about, and crucially, it will reduce the chances of a vaccine-resistant strain from coming about.

It really is a time-crucial event now. The quicker we can get everyone - not just the Irish or the western world - vaccinated the less likely a super-variant will be.

Hmmzis

Some more good news from Israel:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.06.21251283v1

TL;DR - two weeks after the first dose the viral loads were 2.8 to 4 times lower in those that did get infected. This bodes well for reducing transmission. Again, this is just after one dose of the Pfizer/BNT vaccine.

daydorunrun

If the virus continues to mutate is there a chance it could become more infectious but less dangerous?

Happydays2020

daydorunrun wrote: »

If the virus continues to mutate is there a chance it could become more infectious but less dangerous?

Yes. But also more infectious and more dangerous.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My understanding is that this is what prevents an infection from becoming a serious infection? But also that this response tends to be lower in older people - in general, not just as part of vaccine response

T-Cells don't kick in until after infection. They do however play an important role in preventing a build up of viral load and mitigating severity. There are studies that correlate a strong initial response and much better outcomes

They response does tend to weaken with age and there are also conditions like lymphopenia that can affect them.

This tweet links some of the studies.
https://twitter.com/andrew_croxford/status/1358773434663260162?s=19

Hmob

mikelike wrote: »

Its very simple, all our eggs are in one basket, the vaccines are our eggs, when your eggs are under threat you protect them at all costs, we can't have travel to protect them. We cant do zero covid like in the pacific countries of NZ, AUS etc

Don't you find it strange that we have more of our population vaccinated per capita than China do, a country that can build roads in a week that take us years.

Why are they so relaxed about it?

What does this mean?

daydorunrun

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Yes. But also more infectious and more dangerous.

That’s my point- all variations so far discovered are being portrayed (by the media anyway) as worse i.e. more infectious. Just wondering (hoping) about a more infectious, less deadly version.

Icantthinkof1

A promising treatment for Covid?

“EXO-CD24, an experimental inhaled medication developed at Tel Aviv Sourasky Medical Center, cured all 30 moderate-to-severe cases in a Phase I clinical trial.

Developed over the past six months at the hospital, EXOCD24 stops the “cytokine storm” – where the immune system goes out of control and starts attacking healthy cells – that occurs in the lungs of 5-7% of Covid-19 patients.

To date, the preparation has been tried with great success on 30 severe patients, in 29 of whom the medical condition improved within two to three days and most of them were discharged home within three to five days. The 30th patient also recovered but after a longer time,” the hospital reports.

“The drug is based on exosomes, [vesicles] that are released from the cell membrane and used for intercellular communication. We enrich the exosomes with 24CD protein. This protein is expressed on the surface of the cell and has a known and important role in regulating the immune system,” explained Dr. Shiran Shapira, director of the laboratory of Prof. Nadir Arber, who has been researching the CD24 protein for over two decades”

Micky 32

daydorunrun wrote: »

That’s my point- all variations so far discovered are being portrayed (by the media anyway) as worse i.e. more infectious. Just wondering (hoping) about a more infectious, less deadly version.

A bit like BJ’s claim the UK variant had a higher death rate and illness. Has been proved false since.