COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Stark

Yevon wrote: »

What's going on with Moderna? Has there been any delivery since the initial one?

Doesn't look like it. We got about 3600 in that delivery and there are about 1800 people listed as injected with it on the tracker (the other 1800 would be kept back for their second dose).

ACitizenErased

I swear Moderna was like 10k a week or something similar?

markodaly

To be honest, the next 4-6 weeks is make or break with vaccinations. We all know why its been slow at the moment, but with increased deliveries expected, if things don't move fast in the next number of weeks, people will get rightly annoyed and angry at the pace of things.

Sky King

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, that is a selfish viewpoint because we know that this virus mutates and changes, which makes existing vaccines less effective and we have no idea how long these vaccines work for. There are simply too many unknowns still to give anything definite about opening up.

How is it a selfish viewpoint to say that if... IF hospital cases are low then we should be able to assume responsibility for our own actions?

Apogee

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I swear Moderna was like 10k a week or something similar?

Paul Reid said 110,000 Moderna by end of Q1

brickster69

Stark wrote: »

Doesn't look like it. We got about 3600 in that delivery and there are about 1800 people listed as injected with it on the tracker (the other 1800 would be kept back for their second dose).

Sounds like some delays and trying to get Canada's orders out. They are getting Pfizer & Moderna from the Europe plants.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2021/02/08/heres-why-modernas-covid-19-vaccine-shipments-to-canada-have-been-delayed.html

latency89

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Mental how people still think this variant thing will become common. Influenza viruses mutate substantially faster than coronaviruses and yet we only have a flu jab once a year...

You couldnt be more wrong here buddy.

That variant will become the dominant one eventually if no restrictions such as lockdowns are in place, as the rest of the variants are not vaccine resistant and will be neutralised essentially with mass vaccination, the south african variant with the substitution has advantageous properties and if left unchecked will spread everywhere like the original strain did in early 2020

Turtwig

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Mental how people still think this variant thing will become common. Influenza viruses mutate substantially faster than coronaviruses and yet we only have a flu jab once a year...

Not a fair comparison. At the moment coronavirus is rampant and has several orders of magnitude more hosts to infect than seasonal influenza does. Variants may only stop being a concern when the infection rate is low globally.

I think we need to move past influenza in setting our expectations for coronavirus they are very different entities.

polesheep

Turtwig wrote: »

Not a fair comparison. At the moment coronavirus is rampant and has several orders of magnitude more hosts to infect than seasonal influenza does. Variants may only stop being a concern when the infection rate is low globally.

I think we need to move past influenza in setting our expectations for coronavirus they are very different entities.

It matters not if the vaccines have to be tweaked every year or so. They are proven to prevent severe illness, what more does any reasonable person want?

Widescreen

I wonder how long the Pfizer vaccine that will be rolled out for over 85's next Monday has been in the country, sitting in storage.

They were still looking for places to have these vaccinations administered in over last weekend!

This should have been done months ago, it's the authorities fault.

A significant problem is that the HSE who have been used to operating at a steady, sedate pace for years have suddenly faced a crisis situation where things need to be done at break neck speed.

The vaccine fiasco has proved they are incapable unfortunately.

ACitizenErased

latency89 wrote: »

You couldnt be more wrong here buddy.

That variant will become the dominant one eventually if no restrictions such as lockdowns are in place, as the rest of the variants are not vaccine resistant and will be neutralised essentially with mass vaccination, the south african variant with the substitution has advantageous properties and if left unchecked will spread everywhere like the original strain did in early 2020

1) im not your buddy
2) who said its vaccine resistent? all the mRNA vaccines work perfectly with it. There's no studies on any other vaccines despite what the media report.

ACitizenErased

Turtwig wrote: »

Not a fair comparison. At the moment coronavirus is rampant and has several orders of magnitude more hosts to infect than seasonal influenza does. Variants may only stop being a concern when the infection rate is low globally.

I think we need to move past influenza in setting our expectations for coronavirus they are very different entities.

You cannot suggest that a coronavirus will mutate more than an influenza virus does, as has been suggested by multiple posters previously that we may need boosters every single year. Any sort of education at all in viruses will show that that is HIGHLY unlikely.

markodaly

Sky King wrote: »

How is it a selfish viewpoint to say that if... IF hospital cases are low then we should be able to assume responsibility for our own actions?

We were there before in August and last December...how did that work out?

Personal responsibility? Great, if it were that simple there would be little to no Covid infections, yet we know there are loads.

MerlinSouthDub

Widescreen wrote: »

I wonder how long the Pfizer vaccine that will be rolled out for over 85's next Monday has been in the country, sitting in storage.

They were still looking for places to have these vaccinations administered in over last weekend!

This should have been done months ago, it's the authorities fault.

A significant problem is that the HSE who have been used to operating at a steady, sedate pace for years have suddenly faced a crisis situation where things need to be done at break neck speed.

The vaccine fiasco has proved they are incapable unfortunately.

So far, we have used up all our vaccine deliveries pretty much as fast as we have received them. I'm not sure how the HSE could possibly have done any better.

The more transmissable strain would be the more dominant. The real one to keep an eye on is the Kent variant with the mutation that they've found in parts of the UK.

Sky King

markodaly wrote: »

We were there before in August and last December...how did that work out?

Hospitalisations increased again because the vulnerable and health care workers weren't vaccinated at the time?

latency89

polesheep wrote: »

They are proven to prevent severe illness

In 80 year olds?

Since when have they proved it prevents severe illness against south african type variants with e484k substitution in nursing home resident age groups? AZ was trialed by a university in South Africa and it had poor results in young people, all other vaccines are not widespread in south africa and have no mass data, just a small group of sub 1000 people to look at

markodaly

ACitizenErased wrote: »

You cannot suggest that a coronavirus will mutate more than an influenza virus does, as has been suggested by multiple posters previously that we may need boosters every single year. Any sort of education at all in viruses will show that that is HIGHLY unlikely.

Kind of an odd statement to make when we have no clue at all right this minute how long these vaccines are effective for?

We could well be looking at a yearly vaccine for Covid-19, at least in the short term to combat new varients. I said it ages back and Im looking to be more right by the week.

Van.Bosch

If the SA strain is so transmissible then why have cases plummeted there from 20,000 a day to 2,000 a day?

This isn’t a loaded question, I’m curious. Maybe the local lockdown is having a huge impact but if the variant is so strong I wouldn’t expect such large falls.

Any thoughts?

polesheep

latency89 wrote: »

In 80 year olds?

Since when have they proved it prevents severe illness against south african type variants with e484k substitution in nursing home resident age groups? AZ was trialed by a university in South Africa and it had poor results in young people, all other vaccines are not widespread in south africa and have no mass data, just a small group of sub 1000 people to look at

Yes, the vaccines are already proving to protect all age groups from serious illness.

The SA trials are not worth the paper they are written on.

ACitizenErased

markodaly wrote: »

Kind of an odd statement to make when we have no clue at all right this minute how long these vaccines are effective for?

We could well be looking at a yearly vaccine for Covid-19, at least in the short term to combat new varients. I said it ages back and Im looking to be more right by the week.

The flu vaccine is needed once a year. Coronavirus mutates slower and less frequently than the flu. To suggest a yearly vaccine is likely is completely incorrect virologically.

markodaly

Sky King wrote: »

Hospitalisations increased again because the vulnerable and health care workers weren't vaccinated at the time?

A) We dont know how long vaccines are effective for
We have no idea what future varients will come down the line
C) Too many cases locally, and abroad for us to drop our guard and be on our merry way.
D) The WHO, CDC, ECDC etc... all agree that curbing infections are the key.

latency89

ACitizenErased wrote: »

1) im not your buddy
2) who said its vaccine resistent? all the mRNA vaccines work perfectly with it. There's no studies on any other vaccines despite what the media report.

Link me a study that proves mRNA works against it, not a lab study, our a small group study

A large study, 10000+ people, vulnerable group preferably.You wont find it because it doesn't exist.

stephenjmcd

latency89 wrote: »

In 80 year olds?

Since when have they proved it prevents severe illness against south african type variants with e484k substitution in nursing home resident age groups? AZ was trialed by a university in South Africa and it had poor results in young people, all other vaccines are not widespread in south africa and have no mass data, just a small group of sub 1000 people to look at

It's been said here plenty of times, there's more holes in that study than anything else. Many many caveats

ACitizenErased

latency89 wrote: »

Link me a study that proves mRNA works against it, not a lab study, our a small group study

A large study, 10000+ people, vulnerable group preferably.You wont find it because it doesn't exist.

The fact you think a phase 3 study is needed says it all.
Have a good afternoon.

markodaly

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The flu vaccine is needed once a year. Coronavirus mutates slower and less frequently than the flu. To suggest a yearly vaccine is likely is completely incorrect virologically.

I think the point is already made but Covid-19 is much more prevalent in humans than influenza, hence why we already have a few new variants that undermine existing vaccines.

Apples and Oranges.

polesheep

markodaly wrote: »

A) We dont know how long vaccines are effective for
We have no idea what future varients will come down the line
C) Too many cases locally, and abroad for us to drop our guard and be on our merry way.
D) The WHO, CDC, ECDC etc... all agree that curbing infections are the key.

There's no reason to assume that they won't be long-term effective.

There seems to be a misconception (fuelled by media) that every new variant will require an amendment to the vaccines. This kind of misconception is what the government should be communicating about instead of prattling on about how many might be able to attend a wedding in July.

Turtwig

ACitizenErased wrote: »

You cannot suggest that a coronavirus will mutate more than an influenza virus does, as has been suggested by multiple posters previously that we may need boosters every single year. Any sort of education at all in viruses will show that that is HIGHLY unlikely.

SARS-CoV-2 is more stable than influenza and mutates at a relatively slower pace. However, seasonal influenza doesn't have a population that is fully susceptible to infection. Coronavirus has. Simply put, if there are sufficient numbers of infected people coronavirus can mutate more in a given time period than influenza does. Not saying it will. I have no idea how many infections you would need. But that's the key point the coronavirus can infect a lot more people and this pandemic is still raging.
The concern for variants doesn't end until the cases globally are well under control and ideally back to something like season flu levels. But I really really feel we need to stop using flu as some sort of benchmark for expectations.

latency89

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The fact you think a phase 3 study is needed says it all.
Have a good afternoon.

I don't need phase 3, a real world study from a country where that variant is common is fine.you've no data for your claims that mrna works against it, how could you when south africa dont have mrna in use there and no mrna vaccine had trials there when that variant was common

Micky 32

Sky King wrote: »

Hospitalisations increased again because the vulnerable and health care workers weren't vaccinated at the time?

I know, some people seem to have issues of not recognising the past vs present/future. There were no promise of vaccines back then. Different scenario then.