COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

Not according to that list, and we didn’t od 8 old folks or destroy 1000 doses of the vaccine as Germany did through rushing out without adequate training

An uneven start!

https://www.eureporter.co/frontpage/2020/12/29/eus-marathon-covid-vaccination-drive-off-to-uneven-start/

plodder

I heard something today about concerns that other countries can't guarantee they will have the second dose available at the time it is needed. But, the only way to actually guarantee this would be to keep the second dose in storage for the three weeks before the second dose. Which doesn't sound like an efficient use of the limited supplies. Anyone know how this is being organised here?

Duke of Url

plodder wrote: »

I heard something today about concerns that other countries can't guarantee they will have the second dose available at the time it is needed. But, the only way to actually guarantee this would be to keep the second dose in storage for the three weeks before the second dose. Which doesn't sound like an efficient use of the limited supplies. Anyone know how this is being organised here?

In Ireland they are keeping the second dose I believe

plodder

Duke of Url wrote: »

In Ireland they are keeping the second dose I believe

That's what it sounded like. I wonder if it is the right decision. I think it makes sense to prioritise new supplies towards completing the scheduled second dose but keeping half the supplies in reserve like that means we can only vaccinate a much smaller number (half?) than others.

iamwhoiam

plodder wrote: »

That's what it sounded like. I wonder if it is the right decision. I think it makes sense to prioritise new supplies towards completing the scheduled second dose but keeping half the supplies in reserve like that means we can only vaccinate a much smaller number (half?) than others.

I personally think its the right decision . Then imagine if they didn’t get enough for the 2nd dose and it was delayed . Would they then have to consider re vaccinating the first lot with the first dose ?

stephenjmcd

plodder wrote: »

I heard something today about concerns that other countries can't guarantee they will have the second dose available at the time it is needed. But, the only way to actually guarantee this would be to keep the second dose in storage for the three weeks before the second dose. Which doesn't sound like an efficient use of the limited supplies. Anyone know how this is being organised here?

The issue was that there was some issues with the 2nd delivery to some European countries.(delayed by 24hrs due to an issue at the Pfizer plant in Belgium-since resolved)

In order to ensure we don't run into issues, for the first few weeks we'll now be keeping back half of the delivery.

They want to ensure the 40k arrive for the next few weeks. Prof MacCraith was quite clear this will only be for the first few weeks of January to ensure supply timelines come through on the expected dates. Once supply is coming through, all doses will go out as they come in and won't be held back.

stephenjmcd

Duke of Url wrote: »

In Ireland they are keeping the second dose I believe

Only for the first few weeks of January as per Prof MacCraith

plodder

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I personally think its the right decision . Then imagine if they didn’t get enough for the 2nd dose and it was delayed . Would they then have to consider re vaccinating the first lot with the first dose ?

Having to re-vaccinate a few people wouldn't be the end of the world. It appears you get a lot of protection from the first dose anyway.

Keeping some level of buffer in storage is probably prudent, but sending half of everything we receive to sit in the freezers for three weeks would seem crazy to me, but if it's only for a couple of weeks, maybe it isn't a huge deal..

Cork2021

stephenjmcd wrote: »

The issue was that there was some issues with the 2nd delivery to some European countries.(delayed by 24hrs due to an issue at the Pfizer plant in Belgium-since resolved)

In order to ensure we don't run into issues, for the first few weeks we'll now be keeping back half of the delivery.

They want to ensure the 40k arrive for the next few weeks. Prof MacCraith was quite clear this will only be for the first few weeks of January to ensure supply timelines come through on the expected dates. Once supply is coming through, all doses will go out as they come in and won't be held back.

That makes sense to be fair, go hell for leather then.
With moderna getting approval next week this will add to the 40k albeit in smaller quantities.
Has there been any inkling as to how many a week we might get there? It would be marginal I’d assume like 3-5k?

Duke of Url

Cork2021 wrote: »

That makes sense to be fair, go hell for leather then.
With moderna getting approval next week this will add to the 40k albeit in smaller quantities.
Has there been any inkling as to how many a week we might get there? It would be marginal I’d assume like 3-5k?

Where will the Moderna vaccine be produced for Europe?

mike8634

hmmm wrote: »

We don't know what impact the vaccines will have on transmission, they are designed to protect against the worst of the disease.

So yeah even if you get the vaccination, you should still be tested for the virus if you feel sick as you might be capable of spreading the virus. We're in uncharted territory for a while.

Reading now that the RNA vaccine just helps your body identify and fight the virus and without the protein spikes, the virus cannot attach themselves and are essentially then flushed out of the system naturally.

Can't find anything on how the RNA vaccine will prevent the infection from being passed on

Does that sound right?

Or did I interpret it all wrong

We really are in uncharted territory then

Duke of Url

Duke of Url wrote: »

Where will the Moderna vaccine be produced for Europe?

Switzerland and Spain

lbj666

mike8634 wrote: »

Reading now that the RNA vaccine just helps your body identify and fight the virus and without the protein spikes, the virus cannot attach themselves and are essentially then flushed out of the system naturally.

Can't find anything on how the RNA vaccine will prevent the infection from being passed on

Does that sound right?

Or did I interpret it all wrong

We really are in uncharted territory then

Moderna did come out a say the their mRNA will likely to prevent transmission significantly and had a bit of data on it. The data is limited and will be hard to prove for definite until there is data on rollout, but experts are already making the logical leap that it will, authorities will be a bit slower to do that.

By my own flawed logic and I could be wrong, if the body has gone to work on the spike protein already but passes it onto someone else you are passing on viral particles less likely to bind and cause the disease. Of course if you passed on in the early stages of infection that's less likely.

awec

Can someone knowledgeable in the subject tell us what the "training" is they referred to that delayed the rollout?

What is different about administering this one compared to the other vaccines routinely issued each year?

tayto lover

Over 3,100 on the island today.
It’s getting even scarier and the hospitals are receiving more patients.

Anyone know how long until the vaccine is rolled out to everyone or how they will do it?

Stheno

tayto lover wrote: »

Over 3,100 on the island today.
It’s getting even scarier and the hospitals are receiving more patients.

Anyone know how long until the vaccine is rolled out to everyone or how they will do it?

End of August is the current prediction

awec

Stheno wrote: »

End of August is the current prediction

They could surely bring that in a month or two if they move away from this 9-5 monday to friday stuff.

lbj666

awec wrote: »

They could surely bring that in a month or two if they move away from this 9-5 monday to friday stuff.

They are doing 7 days a week, Donnelly said it today

JTMan

Reuters reports here that the EU/EMA is being asked to approve extra dose from Pfizer vaccine vials.

This would increase the number of Pfizer vaccines by around 20%.

Typically other countries are way ahead with the approval. The United States, Britain, Switzerland and Israel have all already approved the extra dose. The Italian health service has approved it too even without EMA approval. Could the HSE do the same?

Stheno

awec wrote: »

They could surely bring that in a month or two if they move away from this 9-5 monday to friday stuff.

Its dependant on supply firstly, the delay with the Oxford vaccine and others would be a concern

Now thats countered by the fact the EU are buying another 100 million Pfizer doses but that will only cover 50% of the population

However there appears to be good news in that people are finding vials have six and not five doses so that's a positive

If we can get all over 65s and health workers done by end of March it would have a huge impact

Water John

I'd say fairly standard for vaccines to have 20% extra in a multiple vial. In is in farming anyway. Blackleg vaccine 10 X 2ml can actually do 12.
Wonder are Pfizer going to be paid for the sixth or is it buy five and get one free?

lbj666

Stheno wrote: »

Its dependant on supply firstly, the delay with the Oxford vaccine and others would be a concern

Now thats countered by the fact the EU are buying another 100 million Pfizer doses but that will only cover 50% of the population

However there appears to be good news in that people are finding vials have six and not five doses so that's a positive

If we can get all over 65s and health workers done by end of March it would have a huge impact

End of march is a stretch if they are saying end of February for nursing homes although both workstreams are mostly independent of each other. Maybe first dose done which would still be significant.

Stheno

lbj666 wrote: »

End of march is a stretch if they are saying end of February for nursing homes although both workstreams are mostly independent of each other. Maybe first dose done which would still be significant.

Yeah I know its a stretch and dependant on sufficient.doses etc

GreeBo

JeffKenna wrote: »

I think that's a fair point.

How on earth am I supposed to argue against a post like that, FFS!

GreeBo

AdamD wrote: »

You know its possible to do both right? Picking one situation across Europe where a small amount of doses (relative to Germany) were messed up doesn't justify delaying this.

Well we got 2 days in without a cock up in one of the worlds most organized countries so...

Your argument cannot be that the HSE are so useless at everything they should not spend extra time getting it right.

Either they are useless and should take more time or they are not useless and part of not being useless is following your own bloody guidelines for vaccination?!

Can you just imagine the wet dream there would be on here if there was a cock up in vaccinations are it was due to the HSE ignoring their own guidelines in an attempt to potentially save 2 days?

GreeBo

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Based on one vaccine. Not sure how difficult it is to understand that, more that come through the approval process the quicker the vacination process progresses.

The whole timeline is based on only 1 vaccine

You could have mentioned that before like! :pac:

lbj666

GreeBo wrote: »

Well we got 2 days in without a cock up in one of the worlds most organized countries so...

Your argument cannot be that the HSE are so useless at everything they should not spend extra time getting it right.

Either they are useless and should take more time or they are not useless and part of not being useless is following your own bloody guidelines for vaccination?!

Can you just imagine the wet dream there would be on here if there was a cock up in vaccinations are it was due to the HSE ignoring their own guidelines in an attempt to potentially save 2 days?

No matter how competent the health service is there will be cock ups, something of this scale it's enevitable., just wait for the (over)reactions

awec

awec wrote: »

Can someone knowledgeable in the subject tell us what the "training" is they referred to that delayed the rollout?

What is different about administering this one compared to the other vaccines routinely issued each year?

Well in Germany they gave 8 healthcare workers a full vial of 5 doses with 4 ending up in hospital, and broke the cold chain on 1000 doses through poor handling, so I will trust that extra training was warranted

People seem to be forgetting about the Moderna vaccine. Not seen any mention of it on here for a while.

ACitizenErased

Deleted User wrote: »

People seem to be forgetting about the Moderna vaccine. Not seen any mention of it on here for a while.

I think it's because its the least ordered one in Ireland that it's not going to have as big an impact as others