COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

speckle

ACitizenErased wrote: »

A week after getting it? Not even close to having protection. First dose gives max 50% protection after 3 weeks.



Why is this in the news???

To remind people.. which their are many in the general population that this vaccine does not make you have
1 sterilizing immunity immediately afterwards or at all so you may still get covid if you have been incubating it at the time or if exposed afterwards
2. It takes a second dose and/or time to work.
3. To be careful around vunerable people in the immediate following weeks
3. Take care of yourself if you have symtoms more than a sore arm or feeling unwell more than a couple of days afterwards
4 if named as a close contact get tested still.
5. Be careful incase you are in a tiny tiny minority that might get an adverse reaction that does not start straight away
6. You are not superman or woman with a teflon anti covid shield post vax and the vaccine is not the holy grail.. yet

Some inferred from article... some my own. Stand to be corrected and will edit apprioately.

Fade Into You

I'm not sure how the government can be so confident that a vaccine will be available in September.

The government have said that they are confident that it will be ready in September and that they will begin to roll out

Supercell

namloc1980 wrote: »

Sure but non patient contact healthcare workers are in Group 4 of the vaccine prioritisation schedule. Are we just chucking the schedule in the bin already? If they needed to be vaccinated earlier then that group should have been higher up the priority list. As it stands now Group 1 won't start until the 11th January or so yet we have started with Group 2 and 4. BTW everyone should get the vaccine but if we're deviating from the schedule already it totally undermines the rollout.

Just look at the lockdown levels, meaningless as they keep messing around with what each level means. Of course the priority list will go the same way.
FWIW anyone in hospital where COVID is being treated is pretty much frontline whether administrative or not, they are all working in the same environment together, I really don't see the problem at all.

stephenjmcd

So from Monday there is a small number of nursing homes being vaccinated, it becomes more widespread on the 11th. Reid mentioned the number for next week, I think it was 20 maybe, all about getting it right then going bigger.

3 more hosptials being added in for vacination starting from Monday, don't recall the names being given.

speckle

Stheno wrote: »

The more people in hospital settings vaccinated the better as far as I am concerned

I remember early on the articles re cases in admin in the hospitals.. its like it is centuries ago now ...

namloc1980

AdamD wrote: »

To be fair if the consent forms for nursing homes etc. aren't ready, I'm much happier seeing them move to other groups and get vaccinating rather than sit idle.

No issue there but why is Group 4 being prioritised over Group 3?

opinionated3

Stheno wrote: »

They've changed the schedule for the nursing homes and are starting next

All first doses to be delivered in three weeks

Really good news imo they'll be done by mid Feb

If they were complete by mid February what impact do you think it would have on our restrictions/ freedoms?

is_that_so

Not watched nor listened one of these briefings for a good while. Vastly more informative than the NPHET events.

is_that_so

namloc1980 wrote: »

No issue there but why is Group 4 being prioritised over Group 3?

They are not. It's a test cycle in 4 hospitals

namloc1980

Supercell wrote: »

Just look at the lockdown levels, meaningless as they keep messing around with what each level means. Of course the priority list will go the same way.
FWIW anyone in hospital where COVID is being treated is pretty much frontline whether administrative or not, they are all working in the same environment together, I really don't see the problem at all.

Well that's it. If the vaccine rollout goes the way of the lockdown levels people will lose trust in it. And again I have no issue but it should be clearly communicated in the rollout plan that if a hospital has a lot of cases then Group 4 staff will be prioritized. Everyone would understand that, but doing so without communication just undermines confidence in the whole process.

namloc1980

is_that_so wrote: »

They are not. It's a test cycle in 4 hospitals

Source?

Water John

Severe Covid patients end up in one of those four hospitals. That's why the frontline staff in those are being done early.

namloc1980

Water John wrote: »

Severe Covid patients end up in one of those four hospitals. That's why the frontline staff in those are being done early.

Clerical staff are being done as well who are in Group 4.

weisses

gctest50 wrote: »

Whoever carried that frontline thing out from a happy clappy motivational class should be hung drawn & quartered

They're never more than 100 meters from the teapot


This woman is a frontline worker :


https://imgur.com/5Ssw69k


All 5'1" of her put herself in "mortal danger" to treat a wounded Afghan soldier under heavy Taliban fire and was awarded the Military Cross.


tldr : Hosptals won't work work without admin staff

People who are in direct contact with patients are at the front line... clerical workers are not .... while they need to be vaccinated asap they should not be done on day 1

Last time I checked the average clerical worker in Beaumont wasn't under direct Taliban fire

Water John

namloc1980 wrote: »

Clerical staff are being done as well who are in Group 4.

Don't know the logistics but the vaccine cannot be moved too often and once made up must be used. Also the issue of 6 doses not 5 in each vial. So each setting would have probably got more than the minimum. For example a hospital might have submitted an order for 400 doses. The delivery would actually have 480 doses.

is_that_so

namloc1980 wrote: »

Source?

The HSE!

EDIT: Despite your stroppiness about all of this, I've done your research work for you.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-vaccine-everything-we-know-so-far-about-the-rollout-1.4446133

gctest50

weisses wrote: »

People who are in direct contact with patients are at the front line... clerical workers are not .... while they need to be vaccinated asap they should not be done on day 1
.....

The point was if enough admin staff are out with covid the place will fall apart

but you know that ...... right there is the tldr :

tldr : Hosptals won't work work without admin staff

Irish Stones

Micky 32 wrote: »

It might take until the last part of 2021 but normality is on it’s way.

With delays, shortage of vaccine, problems with logistics, lack of trained staff, and other possible and future issues, it might take longer.
Even Biden said this

"Although federal officials initially promised to vaccinate 20 million people by the end of this year, only 11.5 million doses have been distributed by the federal government and only 20 percent of those have been administered, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. If the current rate continues, Biden said, it will “take years, not months, to vaccinate the American people.” "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-coronavirus--surge-speech/2020/12/29/47134920-49d3-11eb-a9f4-0e668b9772ba_story.html

namloc1980

is_that_so wrote: »

The HSE!

EDIT: Despite your stroppiness about all of this, I've done your research work for you.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-vaccine-everything-we-know-so-far-about-the-rollout-1.4446133

No mention that Group 4 will get prioritised there.

Micky 32

Irish Stones wrote: »

With delays, shortage of vaccine, problems with logistics, lack of trained staff, and other possible and future issues, it might take longer.
Even Biden said this

"Although federal officials initially promised to vaccinate 20 million people by the end of this year, only 11.5 million doses have been distributed by the federal government and only 20 percent of those have been administered, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. If the current rate continues, Biden said, it will “take years, not months, to vaccinate the American people.” "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-coronavirus--surge-speech/2020/12/29/47134920-49d3-11eb-a9f4-0e668b9772ba_story.html

I’m actually quite confident it won’t take years, especially with the americans and more vaccines being approved throughout the year. It will fairly ramp up in the coming months.

AutoTuning

It’s interesting that outside of the U.K. media bubble, the coverage of the AstraZeneca trial has been fairly negative on clarity of the data. Seems FDA approval may take a long time too.

From early December:

https://www.evaluate.com/vantage/articles/news/trial-results/astrazenecas-vaccine-looks-increasingly-also-ran

Moderna is likely to be approved by the EMA fairly soon and J&J - (Janssen) vaccine is progressing very well, so I wonder are we just absorbing a lot of U.K. media hype about AstraZeneca?

Sanofi / GSK vaccine looks like it hit a brick wall and is being redeveloped and that was a big hopeful due to the sheer scale of both of those companies as vaccine producers.

Stheno

AutoTuning wrote: »

It’s interesting that outside of the U.K. media bubble, the coverage of the AstraZeneca trial has been fairly negative on clarity of the data. Seems FDA approval may take a long time too.

From early December:

https://www.evaluate.com/vantage/articles/news/trial-results/astrazenecas-vaccine-looks-increasingly-also-ran

Moderna is likely to be approved by the EMA fairly soon and J&J - (Janssen) vaccine is progressing very well, so I wonder are we just absorbing a lot of U.K. media hype about AstraZeneca?

I suspect political persuasion in the UK tbh in approving Oxford. Sheer panic at the numbers?

stephenjmcd

AutoTuning wrote: »

It’s interesting that outside of the U.K. media bubble, the coverage of the AstraZeneca trial has been fairly negative on clarity of the data. Seems FDA approval may take a long time too.

From early December:

https://www.evaluate.com/vantage/articles/news/trial-results/astrazenecas-vaccine-looks-increasingly-also-ran

Moderna is likely to be approved by the EMA fairly soon and J&J - (Janssen) vaccine is progressing very well, so I wonder are we just absorbing a lot of U.K. media hype about AstraZeneca?

The issue with the FDA is separate. They don't accept trial data from trials not held in the USA.

I'd be confident of AstraZeneca approval in the EU, its safe and effective, its just a case of them fulfilling the data required and actually applying for marketing authorisation

Melanchthon

stephenjmcd wrote: »

The issue with the FDA is separate. They don't accept trial data from trials not held in the USA.

I'd be confident of AstraZeneca approval in the EU, its safe and effective, its just a case of them fulfilling the data required and actually applying for marketing authorisation

Yeah and there is commercial interest in some of the astra zenca reporting particularly out of the USA/financial interested parties, the Oxford/astra zenca is a cheap, non profit (on the vaccine itself, easy to deliver product. The for profit, more awkward other products generate a lot of money for certain sectors and investors in general

lbj666

Just catching up with chat today, regarding the 12 week gap between 1st and 2nd course in UK... I presume that's the plan for low risk groups to ensure the population gets at least one course. Or do they plan for risk groups too. Id imagine the priority is to get people at risk up max efficacy as quickly possible, whatever about the rest of the population.

Gile_na_gile

Deleted User wrote: »

Reuters reported a few days ago that Germany have secured an additional 30m Pfizer doses in a separate deal:

"An Italian reporter asked about the supplies at a German government news conference. An official from the German health ministry replied that Berlin had signed a separate deal for 30 million extra doses of the Pfizer vaccine. "

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-europe-vaccines/eus-marathon-covid-vaccination-drive-off-to-uneven-start-idUSKBN2921FD

But the new order could not be fulfilled until the existing EU orders were complete, probably including the extra 100m, so it is not related to the kerfuffle about queue jumping in that press conference.

I would not advocate skipping the procurement process, or for jumping the EMA approval process (at least just yet), but for coordinating more at the EU level to be proactive in timelining for full vaccination by summer / August. At present, there are disparities between countries in terms of urgency and / or perception of the same. For instance, there is less written in the French press (Le Monde) about vaccination procurement as compared to here. Germany, Spain, and Italy are pressing harder. If the EMA have not heard from Oxford/AZ, they should be calling them every day until they know why.

As AutoTuning said, we are caught in the slipstream of the rapid UK rollout and its media hype, but we need politicians to find ways around the bull**** and pen-pushers, at various scales, because this is an emergency.

Edit: this piece, again citing the German health minister leaning on the EMA to have a quick turnaround once AZ submit for approval. Need more of this from our politicians, and those of other EU states.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/germany-sees-rapid-eu-approval-of-astrazeneca-s-covid-19-vaccine-1.4447461

dominatinMC

Irish Stones wrote: »

With delays, shortage of vaccine, problems with logistics, lack of trained staff, and other possible and future issues, it might take longer.
Even Biden said this

"Although federal officials initially promised to vaccinate 20 million people by the end of this year, only 11.5 million doses have been distributed by the federal government and only 20 percent of those have been administered, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. If the current rate continues, Biden said, it will “take years, not months, to vaccinate the American people.” "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-coronavirus--surge-speech/2020/12/29/47134920-49d3-11eb-a9f4-0e668b9772ba_story.html

No offence, but what exactly are you trying to achieve on this thread? You've stated numerous times that you live in Italy, yet continually post here. And I wouldn't mind, but the material you post has a consistently negative narrative to it, downplaying the vaccine, insisting restrictions will continue much longer, etc.
Now none of us know what the future holds, but the majority of people seem to think that 2021 will see the end of restrictions and normality to return. This has been expressed by a number of high profile politicians, scientists, etc. I just fail to see what your agenda is by constantly contradicting the general sentiment.

is_that_so

namloc1980 wrote: »

No mention that Group 4 will get prioritised there.

And yet again they are not but it does explain why they are in hospitals and why people in hospitals are being vaccinated this week.

weisses

gctest50 wrote: »

The point was if enough admin staff are out with covid the place will fall apart

but you know that ...... right there is the tldr :

That's why you vaccinate the people who are in the most danger of getting the virus and transmitting it ... Admin staff don't fall into that category

Admin staff should not be a day 1 priority ..... simples

Irish Stones

dominatinMC wrote: »

No offence, but what exactly are you trying to achieve on this thread?

I don't want to dash the hopes of anybody, just want to point out that a few issues are showing up and things might not go as planned or hoped.
It's not to be negative, but to be a bit more realistic. I like to be realistic, because saves me from lots of disappointments.

However, this news is public and genuine, not made up on a forged website, so anybody is able to access it. I thought that making it known to those who might miss it could help see the picture in the whole.
Wouldn't you like to know as much as possible on how the roll out of the vaccines in the world is going, given that we live in a global world, and if a country is failing to give its citizens an immunity or a cure or a prevention, this might involve the entire world again?
The EU is made by many countries, and it doesn't seem that all of them are walking at the same speed, some are running, some are slower, some have completely messed up the plans. If the EU isn't walking at the same pace, how can a complete recover of the economy happen, when a country is Covid-free and the next one is still a mess?

Now, knowing that the USA are likely going to miss the target for a complete vaccination within the year, and because the USA are an important partner for most of us, especially for you Irish, and are an economical power in the world, the fact that they might not complete their plan within the expected date should me a reason for concern for everybody.
Am I wrong?