COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

ACitizenErased

WHO issues emergency approval for Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine

https://www.who.int/news/item/31-12-2020-who-issues-its-first-emergency-use-validation-for-a-covid-19-vaccine-and-emphasizes-need-for-equitable-global-access

timsey tiger

timsey tiger wrote: »

You're still in a better place as thousands will achieve immunity 3 weeks earlier. Also you are assuming that no new vaccine will be approved by then, which is apparently a major "sin" on here.

Better to have most people achieve the maximum potential resistance than accelerate some to get partial resistance. Also, giving someone the AZ vaccine as a booster to the Pfizer vaccine may just be pissing it down the drain. Once we get to week 4, 40,000 a week will be getting the Pfizer vaccine, 20k boosters and 20k first doses, and the new sources can vaccinate further patients. It does not accelerate the process by using up every dose as it arrives, just creates gaps further down the rollout, or puts at risk the effectivity through off label use

timsey tiger

Deleted User wrote: »

Better to have most people achieve the maximum potential resistance than accelerate some to get partial resistance. Also, giving someone the AZ vaccine as a booster to the Pfizer vaccine may just be pissing it down the drain. Once we get to week 4, 40,000 a week will be getting the Pfizer vaccine, 20k boosters and 20k first doses, and the new sources can vaccinate further patients. It does not accelerate the process by using up every dose as it arrives, just creates gaps further down the rollout, or puts at risk the effectivity through off label use

I never said anything about mixing vaccines. My point is clear and obvious. I don't know why you are trying to obfuscate.

timsey tiger

ACitizenErased wrote: »

515 was the planned number. They must have had extra doses/time.

Hopefully, that would be an excellent outcome if true. Are they authorised to extract more than 5 doses from the vials?

timsey tiger

timsey tiger wrote: »

I never said anything about mixing vaccines. My point is clear and obvious. I don't know why you are trying to obfuscate.

I will put it another way, if we give 40,000 people a week the Pfizer vaccine for the next 3 weeks, either all doses of the Pfizer vaccine for the following 3 weeks will be required for those patients or some are delayed in getting their second dose. It may be early February before we have a second vaccine available so by holding the second dose in 6 weeks time we have 60k with full protection and 60k with partial with 20 being added to each group weekly

Water John

Deleted User wrote: »

I will put it another way, if we give 40,000 people a week the Pfizer vaccine for the next 3 weeks, either all doses of the Pfizer vaccine for the following 3 weeks will be required for those patients or some are delayed in getting their second dose. It may be early February before we have a second vaccine available so by holding the second dose in 6 weeks time we have 60k with full protection and 60k with partial with 20 being added to each group weekly

It will simply pick up faster as the holding doses will also be released in a few weeks, once regular supply is guaranteed.

Stheno

Water John wrote: »

It will simply pick up faster as the holding doses will also be released in a few weeks, once regular supply is guaranteed.

Yes by the end of February we should have had 360000 Pfizer doses delivered

Enough for all nursing home residents and.stafg and all health care workers in hospitals to be vaccinated fully

timsey tiger

Deleted User wrote: »

I will put it another way, if we give 40,000 people a week the Pfizer vaccine for the next 3 weeks, either all doses of the Pfizer vaccine for the following 3 weeks will be required for those patients or some are delayed in getting their second dose. It may be early February before we have a second vaccine available so by holding the second dose in 6 weeks time we have 60k with full protection and 60k with partial with 20 being added to each group weekly

So, all you are doing is giving half the doses three weeks later than you could have done.

Of course there are reasons you could do it this way.
1. you are not confident in the security of supply.
2. Teething issues.
3. Lack of initial capacity due to poor planning for the roll out of the vaccines.

Of course if as Water John has suggested above that supply is expected to increase, the supply reason falls away.

timsey tiger

timsey tiger wrote: »

So, all you are doing is giving half the doses three weeks later than you could have done.

Of course there are reasons you could do it this way.
1. you are not confident in the security of supply.
2. Teething issues.
3. Lack of initial capacity due to poor planning for the roll out of the vaccines.

What if there was a late delivery or a batch that had to be returned due to a cold chain issue? This is 100% the right way to do it. Once the 3 week scale up is complete will be rolling out 40k every week that we get the 40k. And the new approvals will just integrate into the flow of vaccines

funnydoggy

Stheno wrote: »

Yes by the end of February we should have had 360000 Pfizer doses delivered

Enough for all nursing home residents and.stafg and all health care workers in hospitals to be vaccinated fully

The dream. Love to read posts like this

Stark

Ryanair says we're all going to be vaccinated by Easter.

timsey tiger

Deleted User wrote: »

What if there was a late delivery or a batch that had to be returned due to a cold chain issue? This is 100% the right way to do it. Once the 3 week scale up is complete will be rolling out 40k every week that we get the 40k. And the new approvals will just integrate into the flow of vaccines

Indeed, as I suggested as the number one reason for doing it this way. However, how critical is the three week gap?

What if you have a power failure with our
fridges or they are calibrated incorrectly?

What if the second vials don't have the six doses A citizen has suggested CUH have extracted from the first vials this week?

Steve F

Stark wrote: »

Ryanair says we're all going to be vaccinated by Easter.

That ads a disgrace,and I'm a fan of Ryanair

iamwhoiam

Deleted Sorry wrong thread

Gael23

iamwhoiam wrote: »

So if close contacts are now not being tested then their close contacts have no idea if they are in fact close contacts of a positive case ?

Yes correct. Major shîtstorm incoming.

What’s your thoughts on the U.K. plan to delay the second vaccine in order to give as many people as possible one dose?

blackcard

2080

Level 10 Lockdown in place
Working from the office is part of the distant past. Pubs, schools are museum attractions
Algorithms used to determine life partners as dating too risky
New strain of Covid-19
Vaccination has been carried out on 40% of the population
Donald Trump Junior says that the virus is going to just disappear shortly
Britain states that post Brexit bounce is around the corner
Dublin win the Virtual All Ireland, Mayo runners-up
Tony Holohan says that the next two weeks are critical

timsey tiger

Gael23 wrote: »

Yes correct. Major shîtstorm incoming.

What’s your thoughts on the U.K. plan to delay the second vaccine in order to give as many people as possible one dose?

Pfizer have straight out and criticised it. One could say but they would do wouldn't they as they will lose out on the second sale, except that they can't even meet a fraction of the demand.

Melanchthon

timsey tiger wrote: »

Pfizer have straight out and criticised it. One could say but they would do wouldn't they as they will lose out on the second sale, except that they can't even meet a fraction of the demand.

Wouldn't they have to criticize it as it's being used in a untrialed manner, from what I understand the UK is taking a risk here but it's not illogical, hope to role out at least one dose to the most vulnerable populations so that they have increased resistance but not immunity because they are dealing with very high levels at the minute, is there a risk in administration of a 3rd dose of there is too long a delay between first and second? I don't think there is but no expert.
Majority of deaths are coming from the 70+ and care home demographics so mitigating the risk for them as an absolute priority makes sense, similarly for medical staff even if they are not high risk so you do not end up with huge staff shortages.
Not saying the right course but also think it's not crazy.
Willing to be contradicted by an actual expert though.

plodder

timsey tiger wrote: »

Pfizer have straight out and criticised it. One could say but they would do wouldn't they as they will lose out on the second sale, except that they can't even meet a fraction of the demand.

They criticised it because it's a usage that isn't consistent with results of the trial. It might still be a good idea but it is unproven and therefore an unknown risk. The graph from Moderna that I saw showing a very high degree of efficacy before the second dose, suggests it could be a risk worth taking, assuming the same data applies to Pfizer, but I don't know if that is the case.

ixoy

timsey tiger wrote: »

Pfizer have straight out and criticised it. One could say but they would do wouldn't they as they will lose out on the second sale, except that they can't even meet a fraction of the demand.

And from their point of view, it could damage potential their own reputation if it doesn't appear to work as advertised - a lot of people won't know that it's because the UK didn't follow the instructions.

Melanchthon

plodder wrote: »

They criticised it because it's a usage that isn't consistent with results of the trial. It might still be a good idea but it is unproven and therefore an unknown risk. The graph from Moderna that I saw showing a very high degree of efficacy before the second dose, suggests it could be a risk worth taking, assuming the same data applies to Pfizer, but I don't know if that is the case.

Exactly even if it's only 60% percent effective from one dose if you can get a lot of the 70+ people a dose fast it's going to put a big dent in the death toll

ACitizenErased

Happy New Year lads. 2021, finally a bit of hope and brightness ahead. Best wishes, stay safe.

ACE

funnydoggy

The year of the vaccine. Happy new year gang.

Stay safe folks thanks to everyone here for the fantastic posts over the last few months.

We'll celebrate once again!

froog

happy new year random internet people! the end is near. (a good end, not the end of the world )

glaston

Seriously..
We knew we’ll in advance when the Pfizer vaccine was going to be approved yet we had to wait for consent forms etc.
Meanwhile Israel has vaccinated 9% of its population in 2 weeks, 800,000 doses...albeit 1 dose pp. 150,000 vaccinations per day.
How have we been so slow?

Silentcorner

Like a lot of public services we are an embarrassment, we should price around to see if we can outsource our vaccine distribution....it's beyond us as a nation, you know we will make a bags of it, it's a certainty.

Wolf359f

glaston wrote: »

Seriously..
We knew we’ll in advance when the Pfizer vaccine was going to be approved yet we had to wait for consent forms etc.
Meanwhile Israel has vaccinated 9% of its population in 2 weeks, 800,000 doses...albeit 1 dose pp. 150,000 vaccinations per day.
How have we been so slow?

Israel is ahead in the world with vaccine delivery, but you single Ireland out as being so slow? As if we're the slowest worldwide?
They are putting the world to shame with their roll out, not just Ireland.

stephenjmcd

Happy new year all. Its been a tough slog but we're nearly there. The finish line is in sight

WoollyRedHat

Israel also bought a ridiculous amount of vaccine stocks and them getting to vaccinate their population at such speed means there is less stock for developing countries to access. They probably won't be quick to vaccinate on the Gaza Strip either..

franglan

Think the words are bureaucracy and litigation.