COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

ShyMets

snotboogie wrote: »

Ya it was extraordinarily patronising. "Surprisingly I'm going to talk about Southern Ireland" One step away from calling us Eire

You mean you don't hang off every word from Nurse John Campbell. Just be careful he has a bit of a cult following on this forum

greengrass88

Apologies if this is a silly question but not sure how all this will work...I'm from the North and still registered with the same doctor there since I was born. I live in ROI now. I think I will be offered the vaccine in NI first and if so will get it there. How will this all work when they are making potential registers or lists of people who have been vaccinated in ireland? If I turn down the vaccine here and tell them I have received it in NI already will they just put me down as saying I've already received it? I'm sure theres healthcare workers who cross the border who will have a similar situation

CrabRevolution

is_that_so wrote: »

100% uptake so far in care homes - fantastic. Downside seems to be ongoing IT issues.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0108/1188486-vaccine-ireland/

Total anecdotal observation but I work in healthcare and from the staff I know at a few hospitals there's pretty much 100% takeup among those offered the vaccine so far. I'm sure there's a few refuseniks but the fact I'd need to dig to find them is encouraging. Especially when you see the reports of the frightening number of healthcare staff in other countries who say they'll not be taking the vaccine.

hynesie08

Duke of Url wrote: »

Around what date do people this we will be vaccinating more people in a day than people contracting the virus in a day?

Within 2 weeks if, as projected, the peak of this is the 13th of January. (unless that date has been discredited)

iamwhoiam

is_that_so wrote: »

Not for this, we've only working on it since September and seriously planning for a couple of weeks. Remember the forms they are using in care homes have 55 pieces of data on them.

I would have thought they would have anticipated that before September to be fair .

Amirani

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I would have thought they would have anticipated that before September to be fair .

You don't give advanced consent for an undetermined vaccine that hasn't been approved yet, it doesn't work like that.

lucernarian

Forgive me if this has been covered, but why is the rollout not being prioritised in the areas with the highest recent case numbers per capita? Places like Monaghan and Louth are disasters right now.

CIARAN_BOYLE

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Total anecdotal observation but I work in healthcare and from the staff I know at a few hospitals there's pretty much 100% takeup among those offered the vaccine so far. I'm sure there's a few refuseniks but the fact I'd need to dig to find them is encouraging. Especially when you see the reports of the frightening number of healthcare staff in other countries who say they'll not be taking the vaccine.

That's great. We all see how many hcw get this virus and the risk of transmission in a health care setting is sufficiently high that this is great news.

We don't yet know the effect on transmission from the vaccine but it can be assume that it will have some effect.

As quiet a few in hospital are getting it in hospital anything to help break the spread in hospital is a very good thing and will be a massive relief to the HSE.

47akak

[Deleted User] wrote: »

1% is about 49,000, but mortality is about 0.65%, so about 31,000, and we reach herd immunity at about 70%, so 22,000

What if everyone just does what they want like many propose. Pubs open etc. Medical care won't be available. You could expect 2x-4x deaths. 100k is not an outlandish estimate.

Gael23

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0108/1188442-coronavirus-vaccine/

Amirani

lucernarian wrote: »

Forgive me if this has been covered, but why is the rollout not being prioritised in the areas with the highest recent case numbers per capita? Places like Monaghan and Louth are disasters right now.

Hospitals are #1 priority right now, particularly critical care, ED and ID, regardless of where they are.

If a patient needs an ICU bed, they'll be sent to whatever county has them.

Responder XY

Not strictly vaccine related, but shocking nonetheless. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-55577426

More evidence that there are no limits to how low some people can stoop.

Sconsey

ShyMets wrote: »

You mean you don't hang off every word from Nurse John Campbell. Just be careful he has a bit of a cult following on this forum

What is wrong with you? I assume you know he is not a nurse so you are trying to use the description as an insult? do you not value nurses or what? Why call him a nurse?

Melanchthon

lucernarian wrote: »

Forgive me if this has been covered, but why is the rollout not being prioritised in the areas with the highest recent case numbers per capita? Places like Monaghan and Louth are disasters right now.

I would presume it's politics as too why it seemed like Cork got priority over other hospital regions ,

Deeper Blue

Do people seriously think Ireland would be capable of negotiating their own vaccine deal?

Make no mistake about it, at this moment in time we are blessed to be part of the EU.

polesheep

El Sueño wrote: »

Do people seriously think Ireland would be capable of negotiating their own vaccine deal?

Make no mistake about it, at this moment in time we are blessed to be part of the EU.

I'd go further and say "At all moments in time."

Melanchthon

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ireland: "Hello ,J&J, we want our own deal"

J&J:"Cool - the price is $x per unit"

Ireland:"We will take 5,000,000"

J&J:"Brilliant, we will send you all our data once trials are complete so you can review and approve. Just to let you know, the EMA have been conducting a rolling review, but since you are going on your own, your MHRA will need to start from scratch"

Ireland:"Thats fine. So as soon as we review we will have the doses"

J&J:"Well we are ramping up production, but once we fill all our existing commitments you will be top of the list"

Ireland:"So February then"

J&J:"Yes, February, 2022"

Ireland:"Sh$t, F*ck"

Ireland:"Hello, EU Commission, we want back in"

EU: "Seen as you saw fit to go on your own, all your doses have been redistributed to the rest of the EU, but we will be happy to facilitate you in the next round of orders"

Seem to be completely ignoring the fact the poster is specifying using other countries approval and then approving under an emergency use thing.

Also does the selling company care about the buying countries MHRA? Edit:meaning as in how it's approved?

Too late now for any of this but back in November or December these things could have been looked at

But I suppose the goal for a lot of posters here seems to be defensive. To those posters, how did Israel do what it's done? As some of the posting seems to indicate what they have done is impossible

Sweet.Science

Gael23 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0108/1188442-coronavirus-vaccine/

Great

ShyMets

Sconsey wrote: »

What is wrong with you? I assume you know he is not a nurse so you are trying to use the description as an insult? do you not value nurses or what? Why call him a nurse?

I absolutely value nurses and the vital service they provide. My comment was tongue in cheek. His background is in nursing and as far as I am aware he is not a medical Doctor.

darem93

El Sueño wrote: »

Do people seriously think Ireland would be capable of negotiating their own vaccine deal?

Make no mistake about it, at this moment in time we are blessed to be part of the EU.

Judging by the snail's pace of our rollout in comparison to other EU countries, I can't see how people would have any faith in us securing our own vaccine deal.

niallo27

Gael23 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0108/1188442-coronavirus-vaccine/

All pie in the sky stuff, this will be a long drawn out affair.

Melanchthon

niallo27 wrote: »

All pie in the sky stuff, this will be a long drawn out affair.

Hopefully not, there is serious political pressure on them now, if the EU countries have serious internal restrictions in a couple of months time when most of the 1st world doesn't either due to vaccination or strict external travel restrictions it's going to look awful.

Gael23

niallo27 wrote: »

All pie in the sky stuff, this will be a long drawn out affair.

How so?

niallo27

Gael23 wrote: »

How so?

Nothing against your post or you, just the feeling already, most of Europe are experiencing difficulties even the Germans who are 10 times as efficient as us in doing anything. I hope I am wrong but I doubt I will be.

lucernarian

Amirani wrote: »

Hospitals are #1 priority right now, particularly critical care, ED and ID, regardless of where they are.

If a patient needs an ICU bed, they'll be sent to whatever county has them.

I believe from private HSE sources that nursing homes are the priority right now, but either way there are hospitals or day-hospitals, 3 to be precise, in Louth and Monaghan. Limerick also experiencing some of the highest rates. There is a strong rationale to prioritize the worst-affected areas in advance of hospitals being overwhelmed, at least on a week-to-week or rolling 14-day basis.

GreeBo

JMNolan wrote: »

I agree that this extrapolation is wrong but what precisely is the governments plan to scale up vaccinations? Is it mass vaccination centers? GPs? Pharmacists? Where is the plan on the web?

Why on earth would they worry about getting your buy in?

CIARAN_BOYLE

JMNolan wrote: »

I agree that this extrapolation is wrong but what precisely is the governments plan to scale up vaccinations? Is it mass vaccination centers? GPs? Pharmacists? Where is the plan on the web?

All 3 are in the plan. Thr plan document has been posted in this thread a few times.

is_that_so

lucernarian wrote: »

I believe from private HSE sources that nursing homes are the priority right now, but either way there are hospitals or day-hospitals, 3 to be precise, in Louth and Monaghan. Limerick also experiencing some of the highest rates. There is a strong rationale to prioritize the worst-affected areas in advance of hospitals being overwhelmed, at least on a week-to-week or rolling 14-day basis.

The original numbers announced for this week were 17k and 3k for hospitals. With Moderna very close you'd expect that quota to rise in hospitals.

Akabusi

greengrass88 wrote: »

Apologies if this is a silly question but not sure how all this will work...I'm from the North and still registered with the same doctor there since I was born. I live in ROI now. I think I will be offered the vaccine in NI first and if so will get it there. How will this all work when they are making potential registers or lists of people who have been vaccinated in ireland? If I turn down the vaccine here and tell them I have received it in NI already will they just put me down as saying I've already received it? I'm sure theres healthcare workers who cross the border who will have a similar situation

I'm sure a letter from your Dr in NI would suffice for any such situation or you could always get it in both jurisdictions double protection for you :pac:

ixoy

Has anyone got information on the full vaccination process for an individual here currently? What's the administrative overhead, how long, end to end, does it take to administer one dose, how much can you scale : e.g. can 1 person do paperwork and 5 administer a doses or is it a 1:2 ratio.

GreeBo

Duke of Url wrote: »

If you ask them how they will meet their target





I really dont see them meeting their targets, Currently saying supply but I believe it will be one excuse of many on the way.

I heard they are going to meet their targets by literally stabbing old people in the arm and pumping some big pharma concoction into their blood!!!

Gile_na_gile

ShyMets wrote: »

I absolutely value nurses and the vital service they provide. My comment was tongue in cheek. His background is in nursing and as far as I am aware he is not a medical Doctor.

Correct. He apparently has a PhD on learning resources for nurses, but I cannot actually find any reference to it online, only to other people with the same name. There is no information on where he attained his PhD, but I would guess it is legit.

Edit: Here is his dissertation, awarded in 2013 from the University of Bolton (a former technical college near Manchester, England).
https://capitadiscovery.co.uk/bolton-ac/items/172598?query=Teaching+bioscience+in+national+and+international+nurse+education&resultsUri=items%3Ftarget%3Dcatalogue%26query%3DTeaching%2Bbioscience%2Bin%2Bnational%2Band%2Binternational%2Bnurse%2Beducation&target=catalogue

Amirani

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/millions-of-covid-19-vaccine-doses-to-be-available-monthly-in-second-half-of-year-1.4453250

So the strategy is confirmed as: Use all 40,000 doses received each week, but keep 1 week's worth of supply as contingency. They're not holding back 2nd doses, but will use a future 40k to match this week's etc.

Amirani

lucernarian wrote: »

I believe from private HSE sources that nursing homes are the priority right now, but either way there are hospitals or day-hospitals, 3 to be precise, in Louth and Monaghan. Limerick also experiencing some of the highest rates. There is a strong rationale to prioritize the worst-affected areas in advance of hospitals being overwhelmed, at least on a week-to-week or rolling 14-day basis.

Whatever your private sources are saying, the priority was to vaccinate in ED, ID and Critical Care in the Acutes. That's essentially finished now, and now they have started on nursing homes.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Amirani wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/millions-of-covid-19-vaccine-doses-to-be-available-monthly-in-second-half-of-year-1.4453250

So the strategy is confirmed as: Use all 40,000 doses received each week, but keep 1 week's worth of supply as contingency. They're not holding back 2nd doses, but will use a future 40k to match this week's etc.

Makes more sense than holding back a full second dose.

That way you can buffer for a week with problems (a ferry or plane cancellation or a corrupted dose in manufacturing or a cold chain fubar) but not delay the whole thing by too much.

giveitholly

Vaccine rollout not exactly going to plan Mallow promised vaccines but not getting them now until a further date

https://twitter.com/danscma/status/1347504177384198144?s=19

Happydays2020

Amirani wrote: »

Whatever your private sources are saying, the priority was to vaccinate in ED, ID and Critical Care in the Acutes. That's essentially finished now, and now they have started on nursing homes.

You are both right. The priority right now. It was not the priority last week.

lucernarian

Amirani wrote: »

Whatever your private sources are saying, the priority was to vaccinate in ED, ID and Critical Care in the Acutes. That's essentially finished now, and now they have started on nursing homes.

The first priority in the the cabinet-approved plan is, I quote, "Adults aged ≥65 years who are residents of long-term care facilities. Consider offering vaccination to all residents and staff on site."

This goes along with what I've been told by the CNMs privately. Do you have a source for what you've said? Per the plan, ED/ICUs was priority 2.

Deeper Blue

darem93 wrote: »

I can't see how people would have any faith in us securing our own vaccine deal.

Donnelly would probably buy some magic beans instead

salmocab

Met a pal who works in Vincent’s hospital yesterday (non medical) he was delighted he got his first jab a couple of days ago but said that a couple of fellas on his team didn’t take it. One said you don’t know what’s in it and he replied do you know what was in your BCG jab or any of the medicines a doctor prescribed to you ever?

Sconsey

Gile_na_gile wrote: »

Correct. He apparently has a PhD on learning resources for nurses, but I cannot actually find any reference to it online, only to other people with the same name. There is no information on where he attained his PhD, but I would guess it is legit.

Edit: Here is his dissertation, awarded in 2013 from the University of Bolton (a former technical college near Manchester, England).
https://capitadiscovery.co.uk/bolton-ac/items/172598?query=Teaching+bioscience+in+national+and+international+nurse+education&resultsUri=items%3Ftarget%3Dcatalogue%26query%3DTeaching%2Bbioscience%2Bin%2Bnational%2Band%2Binternational%2Bnurse%2Beducation&target=catalogue

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/dr-john-campbell-5256223b

The University of Bolton
Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.)Teaching bioscience in national and international nurse education.
2011 - 2013

Lancaster University
MScHealth Science
1996 - 1998

Health Science
Lancaster University
Post Graduate Certificate in PharmacologyPharmacologyGood
1995 - 1997

The Open University
BScBiology and health2.1
1986 - 1991

Amirani

lucernarian wrote: »

The first priority in the the cabinet-approved plan is, I quote, "Adults aged ≥65 years who are residents of long-term care facilities. Consider offering vaccination to all residents and staff on site."

This goes along with what I've been told by the CNMs privately. Do you have a source for what you've said? Per the plan, ED/ICUs was priority 2.

That changed. As I said, all the medical specialties I listed have been vaccinated. That happened ahead of nursing home roll out.

lucernarian

Amirani wrote: »

That changed. As I said, all the medical specialties I listed have been vaccinated. That happened ahead of nursing home roll out.

And why and on what official authority or scientific evidence was this changed?

There are community and HSE nursing home medical staff aged in their mid-60s who still won't receive the dose until next week, and in areas with the highest prevalence of covid in Ireland.

Does that sound smart or like a good story of science-backed prioritisation in a vaccination plan?

Amirani

lucernarian wrote: »

And why and on what official authority or scientific evidence was this changed?

There are community and HSE nursing home medical staff aged in their mid-60s who still won't receive the dose until next week, and in areas with the highest prevalence of covid in Ireland.

Does that sound smart or like a good story of science-backed prioritisation in a vaccination plan?

NIAC and the vaccine task force.

I think maintaining full ICU capacity is entirely sensible given our current predicament.

lucernarian

Amirani wrote: »

NIAC and the vaccine task force.

I think maintaining full ICU capacity is entirely sensible given our current predicament.

This is also done through the use of proper PPE, something acute hospitals are inherently better equipped and stocked to do.

I don't think this reply adds up. The current (public) guidelines from NIAC on 23rd December show the same prioritisation as the cabinet-approved plan. Under whose statutory authority were these changes made?

The point of the vaccine is to prevent patients and staff ending up in ICU, not a way to "improve capacity".

CIARAN_BOYLE

lucernarian wrote: »

And why and on what official authority or scientific evidence was this changed?

There are community and HSE nursing home medical staff aged in their mid-60s who still won't receive the dose until next week, and in areas with the highest prevalence of covid in Ireland.

Does that sound smart or like a good story of science-backed prioritisation in a vaccination plan?

I believe it happened due to logistics.

They wanted to start the roll out in hospitals due to the easy availability of ultra cold freezers.

Amirani

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I believe it happened due to logistics.

They wanted to start the roll out in hospitals due to the easy availability of ultra cold freezers.

Yep, this was the main driver.

On a separate note, bulletin here confirming use of 6th dose from vials from NIAC.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/hcpinfo/covid19vaccineinfo4hps/bulletin1.pdf

lucernarian

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I believe it happened due to logistics.

They wanted to start the roll out in hospitals due to the easy availability of ultra cold freezers.

I hear you, though in their hub-and-spoke model in the plan I didn't see an emphasis on vaccinating the so-called hubs first. From a public health perspective, when border counties are suffering from an extraordinarily-high prevalence (heading to 2% of the population with the peak yet to come), a model like this being implemented almost "on the hoof" with a lack of transparency is very alarming in my view.

Marhay70

HSE seem finally to have come to the conclusion they can't cope alone.


https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40203350.html

47akak

salmocab wrote: »

Met a pal who works in Vincent’s hospital yesterday (non medical) he was delighted he got his first jab a couple of days ago but said that a couple of fellas on his team didn’t take it. One said you don’t know what’s in it and he replied do you know what was in your BCG jab or any of the medicines a doctor prescribed to you ever?

Out the door lads. Good luck. Should be a job requirement.