COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Water John

Once Oxford is approved, vaccinate as many as possible in 11 weeks. Then start with the second dose. We'd need to be dosing 300,000 per week, but cannot see why not.

tom1ie

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Israel are doing three main things.

One They approved early
Two they are offering a premium
Three they are constantly negotiating with pfizer to forward load their orders. Look you were goi g to ship 5,000 to Zimbabwe (for example) . They haven't approved yet. Ship us their 5,000 and give them 5,000 of our march or April order.

Yeah get ya.
How are they actually rolling out the vaccine though?
Israel’s a hot country so how do they manage cold storage?
Are they doing drive in vaccinations?
Have they targeted front line and nursing homes first?

They are the gold standard at the moment so I’m sure there’s things we can learn.

Stheno

tom1ie wrote: »

Yeah get ya.
How are they actually rolling out the vaccine though?
Israel’s a hot country so how do they manage cold storage?
Are they doing drive in vaccinations?
Have they targeted front line and nursing homes first?

They are the gold standard at the moment so I’m sure there’s things we can learn.

They are using their rather large military force iirc

stephenjmcd

Water John wrote: »

Once Oxford is approved, vaccinate as many as possible in 11 weeks. Then start with the second dose. We'd need to be dosing 300,000 per week, but cannot see why not.

With GP, Pharmacists and mass vaccination centres 300k should be very achievable. We got 1 million flu vaccines out in 6 weeks at a less rapid pace that you'd have here.

Chris_5339762

jackboy wrote: »

I think we would need to get consent from each individual before vaccination as this would be an experimental vaccine if done that way.

UK haven't. I know healthcare people up north who have had their first Pfizer dose, had a confirmed booking for later in January for their second dose and got a phonecall telling them they are not rescheduled for March.

tom1ie

Stheno wrote: »

They are using their rather large military force iirc

How though?
Do people get a text to go to a certain mass vaccination centre that is manned by the military?

Solar2021

Water John wrote: »

Once Oxford is approved, vaccinate as many as possible in 11 weeks. Then start with the second dose. We'd need to be dosing 300,000 per week, but cannot see why not.

What if Oxford isn't approved?

What's our plan then?

Some of ye here think its impossible, but nothing is impossible

Stheno

From the Guardian

How has Israel carried out the world’s fastest vaccination drive?

Israel has some natural advantages, being a relatively small country, both in terms of geography and population.

Still, many other countries share those characteristics. Israel’s initial success is also being attributed to its healthcare system, which pre-dates the state’s creation and is now highly digitalised. Everyone over 18 is obliged to register with government-linked insurance agencies, and army medics have been called in to help.

In tandem, the government has launched a vigorous campaign against anti-vax misinformation. The justice ministry successfully petitioned Facebook to remove four groups that published “content designed to mislead about coronavirus vaccines”.

Citizens are also being encouraged to get the jab by officials who have dangled the prospect of a “green passport”, a document that would allow vaccinated persons to eat in restaurants, travel freely and be exempted from quarantine. However, as there is no proof that vaccines reduce transmission, the idea has been met with scepticism.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/30/how-has-israel-launched-the-worlds-fastest-covid-vaccination-drive

Water John

Solar2021 wrote: »

What if Oxford isn't approved?

What's our plan then?

Some of ye here think its impossible, but nothing is impossible

AFAIK Ireland could approve the Oxford vaccine. UK did it whilst still an EU member.

Deeper Blue

A fair few people seem to think the Oxford vaccine is a failure, I see it everywhere on the likes of Twitter etc. People really should read beyond the headline.

ginoginelli

It will be interesting to see how Germany handle this. Known as an efficient nation that doesnt mess around, they are none too pleased with the EU rollout.

If they decide to go out on their own it would give carte blanche to smaller nations like ourselves to do the same.

Treseemme.

El Sueño wrote: »

A fair few people seem to think the Oxford vaccine is a failure, I see it everywhere on the likes of Twitter etc. People really should read beyond the headline.

Oxford is the main deal

Do we have the numbers stephen donnelly was talking about on a hub or something

Geuze

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Of course you are giving false information. 70,000 in nursing homes will be done in January and February along with other vaccinations which have not been specified in thtt article.

If you want to criticise the government please do but give accurate information instead of spreading partial news reports and assuming it is everything.

I am not criticising the Govt.

I keep an eye on the media, and these are the figures I have seen.

Can I ask - are there any other groups to be vaccinated during Jan + Feb, other than the 70,000 staff and residents of the 580 nursing homes?

I see that vaccinations have been done in hosps last week, maybe those people need to be added to the 70,000 figure??

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Its been posted a fair few times now, the FDA require data from trials run in the USA, they won't accept trials held in other countries. This is the issue with it comes to Oxford / AstraZeneca & the FDA.

Have the FDA clarified why they are insisting on US trial data? They approved vaccines in the past where the trial was elsewhere, Ebola vaccine trial in Guinea.

jackboy

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

UK haven't. I know healthcare people up north who have had their first Pfizer dose, had a confirmed booking for later in January for their second dose and got a phonecall telling them they are not rescheduled for March.

What would happen if someone was vaccinated in that unapproved way without consent, then got Covid leaving them with long term symptoms. I assume they would be entitled to compensation.

CrabRevolution

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Israel are doing three main things.

One They approved early
Two they are offering a premium
Three they are constantly negotiating with pfizer to forward load their orders. Look you were goi g to ship 5,000 to Zimbabwe (for example) . They haven't approved yet. Ship us their 5,000 and give them 5,000 of our march or April order.

Another factor is that Christmas wouldn't be an issue in Israel unlike most of the western world, so they could just plough through without interruption.

Water John

jackboy wrote: »

What would happen if someone was vaccinated in that unapproved way without consent, then got Covid leaving them with long term symptoms. I assume they would be entitled to compensation.

Govn'ts are taking the insurance risk on the vaccines.

stephenjmcd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Have the FDA clarified why they are insisting on US trial data? They approved vaccines in the past where the trial was elsewhere, Ebola vaccine trial in Guinea.

Looks like AstraZeneca wanted to submit half dose full dose as well as full dose x2 at same time to FDA.

They (FDA) won't look at half dose full dose as the trial wasn't conducted in the states, thats all that they've said really, I've not seen it expanded on since. The US trail is fully enrolled now for this as far as I'm aware, should probably see some data end of January potentially.

They (AstraZeneca) could easily in theory just submit the full dose regime to the FDA for approval but for whatever reason haven't, they seem to want everything in at the same time.

MHRA approved the full dose x2 regime and said not a large enough sample for hd/fd, I'd suspect the EMA will probably go the same way. Both until the US trail comes out with something from the HD/FD to say this is the way we should go now. MHRA hinted that from the small amount of data on HD/FD against FD x2 it seemed to be more the time between doses and not the actual regime that mattered

ACitizenErased

I hope to christ we don't approve the split dose malarky. It's not what they're designed for.

CIARAN_BOYLE

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I hope to christ we don't approve the split dose malarky. It's not what they're designed for.

Indications are that the efficacy is better in the Oxford vaccine with a larger break.

I doubt it's enough for our regulators but the efficacy for fd/fd with a 3 week break isn't great.

I would. Not be surprised if a decision on Oxford is put off till March or April with instructions to get more data on the alternate dosing regimens.

Water John

'Fauci told CNN on Friday that while it was possible to “make the argument” for stretching out the doses, he would not be in favour of doing that.
This view was echoed by Professor Martin Hibberd of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, who said: “The science has been of a very high standard for the vaccine trials, and it is highly frustrating that this is now being ignored. We do not know how the vaccine will perform with an increased gap between the injections, and we do not know how protective a single injection is going to be over the longer term. So why take the risk?”

However, Professor Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer for England, along with his counterparts in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, have said they stand by their decision to delay a second dose in order to ensure that more people are able to receive their first as soon as possible.
And this view was backed by Professor Stephen Evans, also of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine: “We have a crisis situation in the UK with a new variant spreading rapidly, and – as has become clear to everyone during 2020 – delays cost lives. When resources of doses and people to administer vaccinations are limited, vaccinating more people with potentially less efficacy is demonstrably better than a fuller efficacy in only half.” Guardian

As you can see even experts from the same institute have differing opinions.

Stheno

Eamon Ryan

Vaccines

He said vaccinations should be carried out 24 hours a day, seven days a week, once the Moderna and Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccinations become available in Ireland.

Asked to comment on criticisms that Ireland was being slow in rolling out the vaccine, Mr Ryan said the HSE had used the first few days to “test the application” and ensure people’s confidence in the rollout system. From Monday, 40,000 vaccinations will be carried per week with an initial focus on the 17,000 frontline healthcare workers and 75,000 staff and residents in long term nursing homes, he said.

While the HSE previously said vaccinations would be given out on a 9 to 5, five days a week basis, Mr Ryan said vaccine services would be extended to 24 hours a day, seven days a week, once the European Medicines Agency approved the Moderna and AstraZeneca vaccines. Once these are available “it’s going to have to be 24/7 in my mind with all hands on deck”, he said.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/level-5-restrictions-must-be-given-chance-to-work-says-varadkar-1.4449182?mode=amp

So... is there anywhere where we can see how many we are vaccinating a day?

Stheno

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So... is there anywhere where we can see how many we are vaccinating a day?

Covid Hub will be updating starting this week I think

jackboy

Stheno wrote: »

Eamon Ryan



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/level-5-restrictions-must-be-given-chance-to-work-says-varadkar-1.4449182?mode=amp

All sounded great until he said ‘in my mind’.

Treseemme.

jackboy wrote: »

All sounded great until he said ‘in my mind’.

“We’re not going to be stockpiling any vaccines. In other words, as a soon as we get them we’ll be deploying them.”

Hold him to that anyhow

Bit cynical

I think the optimistic note is that vaccine administration numbers will be published internationally and Ireland will not want to be seen as falling behind compared to other countries. Ireland does best when there's a number to focus on and other countries and external institutions can scrutinize that number.

Leftwaffe

Bit cynical wrote: »

I think the optimistic note is that vaccine administration numbers will be published internationally and Ireland will not want to be seen as falling behind compared to other countries. Ireland does best when there's a number to focus on and other countries and external institutions can scrutinize that number.

They might not want to be seen to be falling behind but I’ll put money on them being behind anyway, whether they like it or not. The start we have had hardly inspires confidence.

Eamon Ryan saying it will be 24/7 in his mind is total BS too.

Deeper Blue

Mr Ryan said the HSE had used the first few days to “test the application”

We knew for months a vaccine was coming, could they not have tested it in the few weeks before the vaccines were delivered?

I know people will say I'm being a pedant etc but every second counts in this situation.

hynesie08

El Sueño wrote: »

We knew for months a vaccine was coming, could they not have tested it in the few weeks before the vaccines were delivered?

I know people will say I'm being a pedant etc but every second counts in this situation.

Again, Germany had to chuck a thousand doses, there's been issues with transport and storage and there were rumblings of supply issues....

This is an ever moving situation and I think giving out half the doses we had in a slow controlled spread was exactly the right decision.