COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

lbj666

Irish Stones wrote: »

It's a two-doses vaccine, so it'll take twice 7 years.
The vaccine supplies have been fixed at 470k per week, but we lack doctors and the news of today is that in several hospitals they ran out of syringes.
Then we have to add that we are historically prone to mess things up.
We knew vaccines were coming, we didn't prepare the vaccination centres, for instance.

Someone is mistaking nihilism as realism.

Irish Stones

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Might need to have a word with your PM so.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-vaccine-idUSKBN29415B

"We are not considering (making it mandatory), we rule it out," Conte told reporters at his year-end news conference

You know the tale of Pinocchio?
Have you seen Conte's nose? I don't believe a single word that comes out of that mouth. In March he said we would have managed this emergency no problem, well, we saw that. In September he said he would have never closed schools again... Yes, of course.

On January 2nd, in a TV interview on one of the main channels, the vice-minister of health has said that they are thinking of the means to make the vaccine mandatory before summer.

stephenjmcd

Irish Stones wrote: »

You know the tale of Pinocchio?
Have you seen Conte's nose? I don't believe a single word that comes out of that mouth. In March he said we would have managed this emergency no problem, well, we saw that. In September he said he would have never closed schools again... Yes, of course.

On January 2nd, in a TV interview on one of the main channels, the vice-minister of health has said that they are thinking of the means to make the vaccine mandatory before summer.

Right so we've gone from decision made its mandatory as you claim, to the PM saying no to the vice minister saying oh maybe. So in essence there is no decision made as you claim.

Can you see why people are extremely skeptical of anything you post when its quite easy to disprove this mandatory vacination as there's nothing backing it up with a quick Google search ??

Irish Stones

DaSilva wrote: »

Any link for this syringe story? I can't find anything on google

It was on TV, on different channels, yesterday. A few regions have run out of the syringes needed to perform the vaccinations.
This is one of the links that say that the syringes available aren't what the doctors need
https://amp24.ilsole24ore.com/pagina/ADSdhPBB

DaSilva

Irish Stones wrote: »

It was on TV, on different channels, yesterday. A few regions have run out of the syringes needed to perform the vaccinations.
This is one of the links that say that the syringes available aren't what the doctors need
https://amp24.ilsole24ore.com/pagina/ADSdhPBB

Gotcha, sorry I thought you were talking about Ireland

Irish Stones

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Right so we've gone from decision made its mandatory as you claim, to the PM saying no to the vice minister saying oh maybe. So in essence there is no decision made as you claim.

Can you see why people are extremely skeptical of anything you post when its quite easy to disprove as there's nothing backing it up with a quick Google search ??

The PM is an idiot, as I said, I don't believe a word of what he says. Like millions of other fellow citizens.
The vice minister didn't say maybe. He said they are discussing on how to make it mandatory, because from a recent survey only 30-35 million people will voluntarily take the vaccine. He said "because we won't reach the minimum level of immunity, it'll be like nobody has taken the vaccine, so we'll have to make it mandatory, we're studying how to do that"
It's just a matter of how to work around some laws, I think.

Edit: they also said they will work on a persuasive campaign, and if they reach the target of the 75% of vaccinated people, no one will be obligated. His words were based on the fact that the current surveys see only 60-65% of people willing to take the vaccine.
This will be seen in the next few months.

Anyway, we're extremely slow at the moment, and it'll take years to reach the target if they don't change their strategy.

Irish Stones

DaSilva wrote: »

Gotcha, sorry I thought you were talking about Ireland

My fault, I apologize!

Happy4all

Deleted User wrote: »

Except that its more than that.

And there were no hospitalisations in the vaccine group and 10 in the control. Which means it will prevent at least 60% of cases using your numbers, and have a very low instance of severe disease. Is that not useful

Thank you for the response, even if somewhat condescending.

Happydays2020

This may be of interest

https://www.iiea.com/event/the-emas-regulatory-role/

EMER COOKE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE EUROPEAN MEDICINES AGENCY (EMA)
WEBINAR: THE EMA’S REGULATORY ROLE IN THE GLOBAL RESPONSE TO COVID-19
Friday, 15 January | 9:00 am - 10:00 am
The COVID-19 pandemic has highlighted the pivotal role of medicines regulation for the protection of public health. In her address to the IIEA, Emer Cooke will discuss the regulatory role of the European Medicines Agency in response to the pandemic. She will also present the policy implications related to the development and approval of safe and effective treatments and vaccines and discuss the potential of real-world data for health policy decisions and supply chain vulnerabilities.

tobefrank321

The vaccine makers are stepping up to the plate in increasing manufacturing, although its likely some of them will need to produce something like 50 million doses a week to keep up with demand.

The race in the UK now is infections versus vaccinations. And there's no sign yet of deaths declining.

Hmmzis

Deleted User wrote: »

Except that its more than that.

And there were no hospitalisations in the vaccine group and 10 in the control. Which means it will prevent at least 60% of cases using your numbers, and have a very low instance of severe disease. Is that not useful

Even if it had 0% efficacy as per the trial protocol but prevent all or near all hospitalizations and deaths it would still be an incredibly useful tool to have.
Absolutely nobody would care much if people were getting a bout of sore throats and sniffles for a couple days (something along these lines is the goal of the Hepatitis C vaccine - severe and lethal disease prevention).

CrabRevolution

Deleted User wrote: »

At 120k per week it will take just over 7 years to vaccinate 75% of the population of Italy. Now what makes you think that as supply increases the number of vaccinations will not increase? Bare in mind this was also the first week

The "going by current rates it'll take a bajillion years..." people must take several years to drive to their local shop, since presumably they stay driving for whole journey at 0.001km/h they set off at. Concepts like accelerating or moving up from first gear must be beyond them since they can't understand that the vaccination process will speed up as the process gains momentum and more supply becomes available.

smurfjed

ixoy wrote: »

We don't have direct flights to SA - we go via the UK generally. I was in SA last year and that's how I did it.

Don’t you still have Emirates and Qatar operating daily ? They offer wonderful connections to South Africa.

Irish Stones

Irish Stones wrote: »

It's a two-doses vaccine, so it'll take twice 7 years.
The vaccine supplies have been fixed at 470k per week, but we lack doctors and the news of today is that in several hospitals they ran out of syringes.
Then we have to add that we are historically prone to mess things up.
We knew vaccines were coming, we didn't prepare the vaccination centres, for instance.

Italians do love creating a good melodrama

timsey tiger

Deleted User wrote: »

Italians do love creating a good melodrama

nothing like a bit of casual racism in the afternoon.

smurfjed

The UAE started using the SINOVAC vaccine in December, but so far their daily case numbers are remaining in the 1500-2000 range.

On the other hand, Saudi Arabia has somehow managed to keep their daily case numbers below 200 for about a month, with less than 100 for the last 2 days. Saudi started distributing the Pfizer vaccine about 2 weeks ago, so way too soon for that to have any bearing on these numbers.

timsey tiger

timsey tiger wrote: »

nothing like a bit of casual racism in the afternoon.

Have you ever been in Italy and had a look at the news shows, nevermind daytime TV? Even without understanding the language you can see the melodrama is rife. That no more racist that saying the Irish like a pint or Russians enjoy vodka. But by all means get offended on someones behalf

stephenjmcd

Speculation that the EMA is also discussing the possibility of approving 6 doses from Pfizer & BioNTech vials instead of the current 5.

Haven't seen anything confirmed on this but have seen it mentioned a few times now on twitter

ixoy

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Speculation that the EMA is also discussing the possibility of approving 6 doses from Pfizer & BioNTech vials instead of the current 5.

What would the logic be there - that you now have 3 double doses per vial? Would it need a change in the type of vial?

stephenjmcd

ixoy wrote: »

What would the logic be there - that you now have 3 double doses per vial? Would it need a change in the type of vial?

Nope, since rollout began in various countries there are reports that the standard vial of 5 doses can actually make up 6 doses when prepared correctly. 5 is the minimum guaranteed per vial

Hmmzis

ixoy wrote: »

What would the logic be there - that you now have 3 double doses per vial? Would it need a change in the type of vial?

The vials contain 6 doses as filled. This means that the standard 5 doses as per instructions have a 20% wastage margin. If the person drawing the doses is proficient enough to get all 6 doses out without wastage then you just gained an extra dose per vial.

timsey tiger

ixoy wrote: »

What would the logic be there - that you now have 3 double doses per vial? Would it need a change in the type of vial?

Not sure what you mean by double doses. Any vial would be used up on 5 individuals in one sitting by the person administering the vaccine. However, the vials have more than enough for 6 doses, so the authorisation is to permit the person administering to give a sixth dose.

According to A Citizen Erased CUH are giving the six doses per vial anyway without the authorisation.

salmocab

timsey tiger wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by double doses. Any vial would be used up on 5 individuals in one sitting by the person administering the vaccine. However, the vials have more than enough for 6 doses, so the authorisation is to permit the person administering to give a sixth dose.

According to A Citizen Erased CUH are giving the six doses per vial anyway without the authorisation.

This may well be a dumb question but if there wasn’t quite enough in the vial for dose 6 could they draw a bit from the next vial? Assuming same batch number or whatever.

Hmmzis

smurfjed wrote: »

The UAE started using the SINOVAC vaccine in December, but so far their daily case numbers are remaining in the 1500-2000 range.

On the other hand, Saudi Arabia has somehow managed to keep their daily case numbers below 200 for about a month, with less than 100 for the last 2 days. Saudi started distributing the Pfizer vaccine about 2 weeks ago, so way too soon for that to have any bearing on these numbers.

Bahrain is interesting here as well, they approved the Sinopharm vaccine in mid December and also are distributing the Pfizer/BioNTech one. While their case counts have increased in the last few weeks, mortality has dropped off.

There are lot of caveats here, as we don't know how many doses have actually been distributed and when, and to what demographics.

I think everyone is going to be watching Israel in the next few weeks as they're up to 14% of their population vaccinated with at least one dose.

salmocab

salmocab wrote: »

This may well be a dumb question but if there wasn’t quite enough in the vial for dose 6 could they draw a bit from the next vial? Assuming same batch number or whatever.

No. It must be a full dose.

eastie17

ixoy wrote: »

I'm hoping the media keeps an eye on us and uses the various press panels to question any failure to meet targets or not use the maximum allocations. This is the way out of this mess and is a far more productive point to drive home than the umpteenth question about shops opening.

But sure then they’d have to stop the misery porn reporting on the thousands of new cases to do that. Can’t be mixing good news with bad, that David McSavage caricature of Joe Duffy in S&M gear getting off to the misery news is spot on with a lot of these RTÉ types. George Lee must be pulling the wire off himself since Christmas with the numbers

timsey tiger

salmocab wrote: »

This may well be a dumb question but if there wasn’t quite enough in the vial for dose 6 could they draw a bit from the next vial? Assuming same batch number or whatever.

Doesn't seem like a dumb question to me, but I don't know.

ixoy

Hardyn wrote: »

No. It must be a full dose.

I took the post to mean that, for example, a vial has 5.75 doses - Could you extract .25 from the next vial to get your sixth dose. If both of these vials had 5.75 doses, you'd now have 11 full doses instead of 10 and two .75 doses going to waste.

Micky 32

ShyMets wrote: »

Anyone else get the impression that some posters seem to want the vaccines to be ineffective against the new variants

Aye , like the poster that rarely posts on here but couldn’t wait to get behind the keyboard to post the rumour of the vaccine possibly resisting the SA strain, using it as leverage to promote their ongoing misery of harsher forever lockdowns :rolleyes:

Irish Stones

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Italians do love creating a good melodrama

Numbers are numbers, not drama.
We received 479k doses, we provided
25% of available doses.
Next week we will receive further 470k doses, but we will still be 360k doses late.