COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Happydays2020

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Everyone here is saying 6 weeks to tweak a vaccine (BioNTech) if required. That's not false, it is correct.

After that it rests at the hands of regulatory bodies as also mentioned in the interview, has also been mentioned here since the interview was widely shared recently.

It is also the case that over time they can anticipate and prepare for different variations in the virus (as they do with Flu).

Solar2021

funnydoggy wrote: »

No offense (and apologies to mods if I'm overstepping) but this is a vaccine thread - it's like going to a motorbike enthusiast's thread and advocating bicycles for everyone.

A strain is supposedly partial/vaccine evading right now, who knows what new strains will appear as we put the squeeze on the virus through mass vaccination

I think its a valid discussion

Your analogy isn't fair

I'm negative yes, but we are 1 year in and our only hope here is the vaccine

Can we not discuss the failure of a vaccine or only good news here?

Micky 32

Some people really are hoping this vaccine fails, especially if it means we are put in permanent lockdown. Some people get hard ons of the thought of it. They need to accept that the vaccine will put a stop to this.

Despite New Zealand with their supa dupa mouth foaming lockdowns they are still having cases everyday..

Cork2021

Solar2021 wrote: »

A strain is supposedly partial/vaccine evading right now, who knows what new strains will appear as we put the squeeze on the virus through mass vaccination

I think its a valid discussion

Your analogy isn't fair

I'm negative yes, but we are 1 year in and our only hope here is the vaccine

Can we not discuss the failure of a vaccine or only good news here?

What failure? There’s been no failure and like what’s been said already the vaccines are changeable!

funnydoggy

Solar2021 wrote: »

Can we not discuss the failure of a vaccine or only good news here?

Failure?

Now you have to be trolling.

Micky 32

funnydoggy wrote: »

Failure?

Now you have to be trolling.

Joined January 21.

Solar2021

Solar2021 wrote: »

Can't compare it to flu vaccine, these are RNA vaccines we are talking about

We've no idea what this thing could mutate into, could be only partial immunity escape like you say or full escape, who knows

We've no idea whats going to happen and are basing all our hopes on pharmacology which is wrong imo

The vaccine activates your immune system, whether its RNA, attenuated or live vaccine. Radical mutations are very unlikely in human hosts, thats why novel viruses that result in high severity tend to be zoonotic in origin. Once our immune systems are activated to this virus, even changes in how the virus infects will still mean our immune systems are attuned to the type of virus and reduce the impact of the virus on average. Eventually we will be able to say with accuracy that "its just like a flu bro", or even less

Hmmzis

Solar2021 wrote: »

A strain is supposedly partial/vaccine evading right now, who knows what new strains will appear as we put the squeeze on the virus through mass vaccination

I think its a valid discussion

Your analogy isn't fair

I'm negative yes, but we are 1 year in and our only hope here is the vaccine

Can we not discuss the failure of a vaccine or only good news here?

I think it's still a long way to suggest any sort of vaccine failure. There is a world of a difference between 'escapes some antibodies' and 'vaccine failure'. As long as they prevent hospitalizations they're as good as ever.

The majority of mutations that have been predicted are of deleterious nature, so there isn't all that much the virus can change without losing functionality. The few that have been predicted to have more transmission potential have already been seen and are in circulation.

Here is a good paper on mapping all the escape mutants against human monoclonal ABs:

https://www.cell.com/cell-host-microbe/fulltext/S1931-3128(20)30624-7

In order to escape those 10 mABs in the paper the virus would essentially need a new RBD (plus whatever escapes are needed in other parts of the S protein). How functional that new RBD would be is highly questionable, as the paper states there are multiple ways to change the RBD to prevent AB binding but most would result in a misfolded structure unable to bind to ACE2.

Godot.

Treseemme. wrote: »

Ya

Let's just approve the vaccines without checking anything

What can go wrong??

The EMA's decision making simply needs to be faster. India, Mexico and Argentina have approved AstraZeneca through their regulators already, I wonder how many more countries will give it the green light before the great European Union glacier finally moves?
The cost savings from the vaccine procurement that the EU boast about is dwarfed in comparison to every week countries spend in lockdown.

funnydoggy

Deleted User wrote: »

The vaccine activates your immune system, whether its RNA, attenuated or live vaccine. Radical mutations are very unlikely in human hosts, thats why novel viruses that result in high severity tend to be zoonotic in origin. Once our immune systems are activated to this virus, even changes in how the virus infects will still mean our immune systems are attuned to the type of virus and reduce the impact of the virus on average. Eventually we will be able to say with accuracy that "its just like a flu bro", or even less

Keep talking.. fantastic

Deeper Blue

Solar2021 wrote: »

A strain is supposedly partial/vaccine evading right now,

I'm going to stop you there. At the moment there's zero evidence of any strain being "vaccine evading". All some have said is it MAY be more resistant to a vaccine. Key word being may.

I may win the lotto tomorrow night but that doesn't mean I've been looking at villas in Bermuda the last few days

Russman

Deleted User wrote: »

The vaccine activates your immune system, whether its RNA, attenuated or live vaccine. Radical mutations are very unlikely in human hosts, thats why novel viruses that result in high severity tend to be zoonotic in origin. Once our immune systems are activated to this virus, even changes in how the virus infects will still mean our immune systems are attuned to the type of virus and reduce the impact of the virus on average. Eventually we will be able to say with accuracy that "its just like a flu bro", or even less

So, a genuine question....I may be completely misunderstanding things however.
The vaccine activates the immune system, fair enough - and all the vaccines (to date) are targeting the infamous spike protein and finding ways of introducing it to the immune system. Why would one vaccine be 95% effective and another only 62%, if they're both just introducing the spike protein to the body ?

josip

Micky 32 wrote: »

The USA have now jabbed (as of this post) 4.66million people, nearly our population.

But that's only 4.66 million vaccinated out of 17.5 million distributed doses to hospitals.
So, they're also unhappy about uptake/rollout rate.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/05/covid-vaccinations-slow-start-around-world-dose-reality

The US’s rollout of its vaccine programme has struggled, echoing the country’s chaotic response to the pandemic under Donald Trump.

Out of about 17.5m doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna vaccines that have been delivered around the country, only 4.2m have been administered, mainly comprising the first of two doses.

That is far behind where the US planned to be at the end of 2020, when it had been hoped 20 million people would have been vaccinated. Reports have emerged of vaccines going bad due to poor organisation, lack of healthcare professionals to administer them or, in one case, sabotage.

nommm

Russman wrote: »

So, a genuine question....I may be completely misunderstanding things however.
The vaccine activates the immune system, fair enough - and all the vaccines (to date) are targeting the infamous spike protein and finding ways of introducing it to the immune system. Why would one vaccine be 95% effective and another only 62%, if they're both just introducing the spike protein to the body ?

Lots of reasons, the immune system is very complex. One reason for Oxfords reduced efficiency could be immune response to Adenovirus vector meaning spike protein delivery is not optimal. This is something that was flagged early in vaccine design and is the reason the Russian vaccine used two alternate adenovirus vectors.

PCeeeee

Solar2021 wrote: »

We need a plan other than pharmacology

Once the pharmacology fails we can have a go at zero covid for you.

Russman

Russman wrote: »

So, a genuine question....I may be completely misunderstanding things however.
The vaccine activates the immune system, fair enough - and all the vaccines (to date) are targeting the infamous spike protein and finding ways of introducing it to the immune system. Why would one vaccine be 95% effective and another only 62%, if they're both just introducing the spike protein to the body ?

One is better at triggering the response

Melanchthon

josip wrote: »

But that's only 4.66 million vaccinated out of 17.5 million distributed doses to hospitals.
So, they're also unhappy about uptake/rollout rate.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/05/covid-vaccinations-slow-start-around-world-dose-reality

Asked a American friend who is relatively clued in and he said he hadn't heard anything about the EU's very slow rollout so I imagine they just aren't aware how badly going in most other countries.

WoollyRedHat

nommm wrote: »

Lots of reasons, the immune system is very complex. One reason for Oxfords reduced efficiency could be immune response to Adenovirus vector meaning spike protein delivery is not optimal. This is something that was flagged early in vaccine design and is the reason the Russian vaccine used two alternate adenovirus vectors.

Interestingly enough, Astrazeneca are now working with team behind Sputnik Vaccine. From the NY Times:

Gamaleya Institute joined forces in December with the drugmaker AstraZeneca, which makes a vaccine with human adenoviruses. The two teams will combine their vaccines to see if they deliver stronger protection together than either does on its own. AstraZeneca registered a Phase 1 trial for the combination on Dec. 24.

otnomart

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Also, total vaccines provided to date:
France 516
Netherlands 0

Yep, there is a lot of drama at the moment in French media about this slow start and how it compares with other Countries
https://www.bfmtv.com/international/infographies-vaccination-contre-le-covid-19-ou-se-situe-la-france-par-rapport-a-ses-voisins_AN-202101040354.html
The NL will start tomorrow
https://nltimes.nl/2021/01/05/living-netherlands-find-will-get-vaccinated-covid-19

MerlinSouthDub

It is being reported that the EU is looking for 300 million extra Pfizer doses (on top of the already ordered 300 million).

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-05/eu-seeks-up-to-300-million-more-pfizer-biontech-vaccine-doses

dashoonage

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

It is being reported that the EU is looking for 300 million extra Pfizer doses (on top of the already ordered 300 million).

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-05/eu-seeks-up-to-300-million-more-pfizer-biontech-vaccine-doses

Ireland to get 5000?

dashoonage

dashoonage wrote: »

Ireland to get 5000?

Ireland are getting about 1% of the EU distribution, so no, not 5,000

SheepsClothing

Micky 32 wrote: »

Some people really are hoping this vaccine fails, especially if it means we are put in permanent lockdown. Some people get hard ons of the thought of it. They need to accept that the vaccine will put a stop to this.

Despite New Zealand with their supa dupa mouth foaming lockdowns they are still having cases everyday..

I agree that the vaccine is the route out of this, but all of New Zealand's cases have been caught in quarantine hotels. If something like this ever happens again, that's the only strategy to follow.

VinLieger

SheepsClothing wrote: »

I agree that the vaccine is the route out of this, but all of New Zealand's cases have been caught in quarantine hotels. If something like this ever happens again, that's the only strategy to follow.

Small island nations like NZ are uniquely positioned to be able to implement that strategy, we are unfortunately not due to the border and the DUP troglodytes refusing to co-operate in an all-island approach.

Gile_na_gile

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

It is being reported that the EU is looking for 300 million extra Pfizer doses (on top of the already ordered 300 million).

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-05/eu-seeks-up-to-300-million-more-pfizer-biontech-vaccine-doses

This seems related to the roasting that the EU commissioner in charge of procurement is getting in Germany. Better late than never.

Cork2021

Leaving cert to sit in a traditional way this summer, spring before any significant ease on restrictions

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1346449185533517824?s=21

IRISHSPORTSGUY

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

It is being reported that the EU is looking for 300 million extra Pfizer doses (on top of the already ordered 300 million).

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-05/eu-seeks-up-to-300-million-more-pfizer-biontech-vaccine-doses

Can they considerably ramp up production in the short term though? There are more than enough vaccines ordered, it's a question of them getting them into arms ASAP to get countries up and running again.
All those new Pfizer jabs are redundant if AstraZeneca and J&J are approved before that.

Cork2021

RTÉ
135,000 people to have had both doses of vaccine by end of February..

I assume that’s only with the Pfizer vaccine.

dublin_paul

Does anyone know what the current test wait time is as of today? I got a test done at midday

EDIT: Read another thread where people were saying 20-24 hours (very good!)

Solar2021

El Sueño wrote: »

I'm going to stop you there. At the moment there's zero evidence of any strain being "vaccine evading". All some have said is it MAY be more resistant to a vaccine. Key word being may.

I may win the lotto tomorrow night but that doesn't mean I've been looking at villas in Bermuda the last few days

You have Matt Hancock, Secretary of State for Health for the UK

Saying he is 'incredibly worried'

A man who has direct contacts with Porton Down lab, who are one of the tops infectious disease labs in the world, growing the bloody thing the last few weeks

Matt Hancock today revealed he is 'incredibly worried' about the highly-infectious South African coronavirus mutation which top experts fear could scupper Britain's vaccine roll-out.

The Health Secretary warned the variant — which has already been spotted in the UK — posed a 'very, very significant problem'.

Experts at Oxford

Sir John Bell, regius professor of medicine at Oxford University, argued the South African variant was more concerning than the Kent one because it has 'pretty substantial changes in the structure of the protein', meaning vaccines could fail to work.

If the spike mutates so much that it becomes unrecognisable then it could render vaccines useless or make them less potent.

But no our epidemiologist El Sueno and our Chief Medical Virologists Hmmmz who also qualified from the College of Boards.ie, 9 ago months say it's like winning the lotto and I may go to Bermuda

Lads lets's be real here, ye don't have a clue what ye are talking about, just like me.

None of ye are virologists or medically qualified, ye read Reddit/Lancet/Google and the journals just like I do.