COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 2 [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Stheno

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

A pharmacist told me that even though he gives flu vaccines and has to do annual training on how to deliver vaccines, he has not been approached to help out with the Covid vaccines.

It seems that pharmacists will not be involved with doling out Pfizer

I suspect it will be Oxford which is.some weeks away

hmmm

"Following these reporters, medical researchers, and politically engaged musicians will provide Americans with the updates necessary to cobble together some sense of what exactly is going on with our vaccine rollout,” said Redfield at a press conference in which he and a team of the CDC’s top officials shared the list of 25 social media users that included a retired doctor who seemed “pretty in the know” and a 22-year-old influencer from Los Angeles who “wasn’t informational, per se, but was still fun to read.”

WoollyRedHat

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

A pharmacist told me that even though he gives flu vaccines and has to do annual training on how to deliver vaccines, he has not been approached to help out with the Covid vaccines.

I would imagine they will start to involve GPS and Pharmacists to give vaccinations as soon as Astrazeneca is approved.

lbj666

hmmm wrote: »

I think this might be new information on Astra Zeneca?
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/949772/UKPAR_COVID_19_Vaccine_AstraZeneca_05.01.2021.pdf

Page 35 - Half-dose discounted, "not persuasive evidence of a real difference in VE between SD and LD, and the apparent difference is considered more likely to be the result of confounding factors, especially the dosing interval."

"For the subgroup with dosing interval 8-11 weeks, VE was 72.85%, 95% CI (43.45, 86.97), for the subgroup with dosing interval > 11 weeks, it was 81.90%, 95% CI (59.93, 91.90)"

Page 34 - "Exploratory analyses were conducted to investigate whether protective immunity was induced by the first dose and what the duration of protection was. The follow-up time began at 22 days after the first dose and was censored at the time of the second dose. Results
indicated that the first dose provided protective immunity at least until 12 weeks"

Page 33 - "The two cases of hospitalisation in the AZD1222 group occurred on days 1 and 10 post vaccination."

"Participants in the COV002 study had weekly self-swabs using the central NHS Pillar 2 testing mechanism. Analyses including asymptomatic cases demonstrated that the overall incidence of infections was decreased, not just the incidence of symptomatic COVID-19, thereby suggesting an effect on transmission as well."

(table shows infections were halved).

Can someone explain this line to me and VE and CI meanings?

Does it mean there is actually substantial trial data on the efficacy 8-12 weeks interval between dose 1 and 2 and was that enough for the UK to go it.

I'd seen that Dr. John Campbell quoted that 1st dose reduced hospitalizations by 90% (based on small sample size) , compared to 50% max if half the same group got 2 doses while the other half waited. Thats is a serious carrot on a stick if true and would give more understanding of the UKs decision.

lbj666

Stheno wrote: »

It seems that pharmacists will not be involved with doling out Pfizer

I suspect it will be Oxford which is.some weeks away

Cant train them if they don't know whats gonna be on label yet

AutoTuning

They likely won’t need any extra training other than about the product. It’s delivered exactly the same as a flu vaccine.

The Pfizer one isn’t going to be pharmacy based as it’s got complex cold chain requirements and needs to be done though bigger centres.

The Continental Op

AutoTuning wrote: »

They likely won’t need any extra training other than about the product. It’s delivered exactly the same as a flu vaccine.

The Pfizer one isn’t going to be pharmacy based as it’s got complex cold chain requirements and needs to be done though bigger centres.

Its really not that complex and something that Artificial Insemination has had a handle on for years.

[Tongue in cheek] Maybe they should get the VETS to do the delivery? [/Tongue in cheek]

Geuze

lbj666 wrote: »

Can someone explain this line to me and VE and CI meanings?

Does it mean there is actually substantial trial data on the efficacy 8-12 weeks interval between dose 1 and 2 and was that enough for the UK to go it.

I'd seen that Dr. John Campbell quoted that 1st dose reduced hospitalizations by 90% (based on small sample size) , compared to 50% max if half the same group got 2 doses while the other half waited. Thats is a serious carrot on a stick if true and would give more understanding of the UKs decision.

CI means Confidence Interval.

95% CI are common, also 90% CI, maybe 99% CI.

lbj666

Geuze wrote: »

CI means Confidence Interval.

95% CI are common, also 90% CI, maybe 9Its9% CI.

Ah of course, its late and VE is efficacy

franciscanpunk

Obviously we cant give out vaccines that we dont have yet and need to allow for the second dose in the scheduling process.

I think we only have 2 things we can do which will help if situation is as dire as people say.

1) negotiate with pfizer and moderna outside of the EU block purchas ageement.
2) We approve oxford for emergency use here(we would never actually do that or anything not approved by the EMA) but at least be seen to discuss it least would have other EU nations with the idea on our rader which will hopefully encourage a drive for faster EMA approval. I would say we could also try apply pressure on the EMA for approval but I dont think anyone would listen to Ireland. I do think we should encourage our German friends to this though as Pfizer would probably in fridges if ot wasn't for thier infuence.

nommm

Seen as this has come up so many times ...

If Ireland started negotiating outside the EU block, what would stop the more powerful countries doing the same and blocking our supply? We need solidarity right now and are better off as part of EU agreement. Afterall, it is Germany who invested heavily in the Pfizer vaccine, they surely have more claim than us.

marno21

nommm wrote: »

Seen as this has come up so many times ...

If Ireland started negotiating outside the EU block, what would stop the more powerful countries doing the same and blocking our supply? We need solidarity right now and are better off as part of EU agreement. Afterall, it is Germany who invested heavily in the Pfizer vaccine, they surely have more claim than us.

If we had offered Pfizer what we're going to spend on this Lockdown the fridges in Citywest would be overflowing at the minute.

Hopefully the European Union collectively can work towards accelerating vaccine production and distribution in any way possible.

nommm

marno21 wrote: »

If we had offered Pfizer what we're going to spend on this Lockdown the fridges in Citywest would be overflowing at the minute.

Hopefully the European Union collectively can work towards accelerating vaccine production and distribution in any way possible.

And all the other european countries would offer more! We are getting a steady supply of vaccine at a good price. Manufacturing is the block here. With the Marburg plant coming online alongside other vaccines, we should be good. No point stirring fights with our allies.

larchielads

Do they know if the vaccine(s) will be a once off or yearly like the flu jab?

Russman

nommm wrote: »

And all the other european countries would offer more! We are getting a steady supply of vaccine at a good price. Manufacturing is the block here. With the Marburg plant coming online alongside other vaccines, we should be good. No point stirring fights with our allies.

This exactly. We’re a small fish in a big pond.

The last thing we need to do is head off on a madcap solo run right now. The budget deficit from all this is easily manageable if the EU stick together - I firmly believe that collectively a way will be found for covid related borrowings/deficits not to drag the bloc down. We want to be part of that and not try to be smart asses like in 2008.

Wanderer78

Russman wrote:

The last thing we need to do is head off on a madcap solo run right now. The budget deficit from all this is easily manageable if the EU stick together - I firmly believe that collectively a way will be found for covid related borrowings/deficits not to drag the bloc down. We want to be part of that and not try to be smart asses like in 2008.

Smart in 08, in what way?

odyssey06

Denmark looking at 6 week wait period between vaccine doses.

Health experts have delved into the documentation for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines and the six-week wait can apply to both.
https://cphpost.dk/?p=121585

stephenjmcd

odyssey06 wrote: »

Denmark looking at 6 week wait period between vaccine doses.

Health experts have delved into the documentation for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines and the six-week wait can apply to both.
https://cphpost.dk/?p=121585

Except Pfizer have said there is no data to support anything outside the period already trialled

Wesekn.

How many have been vaccinated ball park

I'm hoping to see these numbers rise quickly

Wanderer78

Wesekn. wrote: »

How many have been vaccinated ball park

I'm hoping to see these numbers rise quickly

think its only a few thousand

plodder

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Except Pfizer have said there is no data to support anything outside the period already trialled

It's not true, that there is no data. It's not conclusive since the trials weren't designed to test these alternative regimens, but they wouldn't be doing this if there was no data.

stephenjmcd

plodder wrote: »

It's not true, that there is no data. It's not conclusive since the trials weren't designed to test these alternative regimens, but they wouldn't be doing this if there was no data.

It has not been trialled in sufficient numbers outside of the recommend dosing schedule. Its essentially another trial. If BioNTech & Pfizer say there's no data to back it then I'd be inclined to listen to them.

https://www.ft.com/content/12b887b0-accd-4990-a2f1-689193d0b398

"BioNTech, the German biotech group behind the first approved Covid-19 vaccine, warned there was “no data” to support plans to delay the second dose of the jab with the aim of reaching as many people as possible with limited supplies."

"[The] safety and efficacy of the vaccine has not been evaluated on different dosing schedules as the majority of trial participants received the second dose within the window specified in the study design,”

CIARAN_BOYLE

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Except Pfizer have said there is no data to support anything outside the period already trialled

The period in the trial wasn't exactly 3 weeks.

It was 18 to 42 days.

The vast majority of the participants took it close to 3 weeks but there should be some data around 42 days which is what Denmark are going with.

jcon1913

eastie17 wrote: »

But sure then they’d have to stop the misery porn reporting on the thousands of new cases to do that. Can’t be mixing good news with bad, that David McSavage caricature of Joe Duffy in S&M gear getting off to the misery news is spot on with a lot of these RTÉ types. George Lee must be pulling the wire off himself since Christmas with the numbers

This post made my day for some reason

is_that_so

Wanderer78 wrote: »

think its only a few thousand

20k were planned for this week so will be about 30K by week's end, based on that.

ixoy

Since the Pfizer vaccine can be stored at 2-8c for five days, is there no way for it to be shipped to some GPs too or is it just not worth the hassle of driving around refrigerated containers as that itself is a logistical headache?
What about even more local distribution hubs from which GPs could get it?

Or is it, storage requirements aside, also more complex to inject for some reason that someone could explain.

plodder

stephenjmcd wrote: »

It has not been trialled in sufficient numbers outside of the recommend dosing schedule. Its essentially another trial. If BioNTech & Pfizer say there's no data to back it then I'd be inclined to listen to them.

https://www.ft.com/content/12b887b0-accd-4990-a2f1-689193d0b398

"BioNTech, the German biotech group behind the first approved Covid-19 vaccine, warned there was “no data” to support plans to delay the second dose of the jab with the aim of reaching as many people as possible with limited supplies."

"[The] safety and efficacy of the vaccine has not been evaluated on different dosing schedules as the majority of trial participants received the second dose within the window specified in the study design,”

The "no data" statement you're quoting there is from the FT, not Pfizer/BioNtech.

Their data actually shows a strong level of efficacy from about ten days after the first dose.

GreeBo

unplayable wrote: »

Denmark have 5.8 million people and by 27th December had vaccinated 47k people. Explain

Nope.
https://www.thelocal.dk/20201230/denmark-has-already-given-13331-vaccines-jabs

13k by the 30th December

timsey tiger

Russman wrote: »

This exactly. We’re a small fish in a big pond.

We want to be part of that and not try to be smart asses like in 2008.

We weren't smart (asses or otherwise) in '08, if we were we wouldn't have nationalised private debt. A whole seperate debate, as to whether this would have lead to a better outcome.

timsey tiger

GreeBo wrote: »

Nope.
https://www.thelocal.dk/20201230/denmark-has-already-given-13331-vaccines-jabs

13k by the 30th December

I guess they must not be holding back, 50% for the second dose? Otherwise they are getting proportionally dignificantly more than we are.