Lets be real here: The Children's Hospital is a scam

Podge_irl

It is not about where the bloody doctors are willing to work.

not access/whats best for patients,yous have your prioirties very badly wrong as regards healthcare

What's best for patients is co-location with a large tertiary teaching hospital. But apparently according to some people here its actually car parks.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117724024#Comment_117724024

According to the transport study in 2013 for James 16% of staff travel to work on public transport.

That's a hospital that's done it's best to force staff out of their cars up to the point of staff balloting for strike over it. At some point they had staff parking off site at kilmainham hospital and shuttle buses over to James. No idea if that was temporary.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117731597#Comment_117731597

How is it best to be located with teaching hospiteal??

Ardkeen is a 'teaching hospiteal' and if i had kids,i certainly wouldnt want them treated there

Looks to me,like a form of lazy retrospective anyslsis to justify some fairly incompetent governce by those whom signed off on it......it deosnt make sense to me anyway

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117731052#Comment_117731052

Be interesting to know if this is significant % of staff.

You'd assume most people working between locations would try to work in one location one day and the other, the following day. As reduce the time and cost of transport. Never mind the interruption. In my limited experience consultants, professors tend to be in different locations on different days. Not constantly traveling between them.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117724666#Comment_117724666

Equally been told by very similar people that's it's the wrong location. James as a location was passed over twice.

Vast majority of staff across all the hospitals drive. So it's obviously not an issue they can't overcome. Not that everyone has to drive. But I'm not aware of any major hospital that has no public transport.

Oddly enough vast numbers of people in Dublin 15 and 24 use public transport every day. They'd be a bit confused why it's suddenly impossible.

Flinty997

Any way it's done now. The New hospital is ticking all the boxes it was predicted too

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117731744#Comment_117731744

It is not retrospective - it has been the main priority since long before shovels were put in the ground. You would know this if you bothered to put in the slightest bit of effort, i.e. just reading this thread.

It is quite simple - being co-located with specialist units in the adult tertiary hospital improves outcomes for children. It is particularly effective for teens and older children. Ireland does not have sufficient population to have the necessary level of individual paediatric specialisations, so access to the adult specialists is incredibly important. James' has the highest number of specialist services anywhere in the country.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117704675#Comment_117704675

that's a point rarely mentioned , once a patient gets in the car they are in the car until they arrive at the hospital, no train or luas or pony and trap are coming into the equation.

salonfire

I challenge you to find one link or article that is expecting extremely sick patients travel by public transport.

Why do you think 1000 car park spaces are being built?

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117736394#Comment_117736394

You do know that staff working in James at the moment need to be in by 6.30am to get a car space?

Oh wait shure the staff shoudl all go to nearest rail station to catch train to Dublin so they can take Luas or bus to James.

Oh and if they can't park at James there are off site car parks down near Hueston and Guinnesses they can use.

But they never mention that in one of them it is frequented by junkies and the security are bloody afraid to patrol it at night.

Ah but shure the powers that be, top management, the consultants and government lackies who are either dropped and picked up or have designated parking spots don't need to worry about those little inconveniences.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117731052#Comment_117731052

And here you have it.

This is the very reason why James was picked after the Mater got kicked to touch.

A lot of it is all about the consultants and professors.

Perish the thought the over paid fookers would have to wander out to the sticks past the M50.

And yes in comparison to lots of other Western states they damn well are overpaid.

Podge_irl

Connolly, as well as being inferior for many other reasons, would not have had any more parking spaces.

This is the very reason why James was picked after the Mater got kicked to touch.

They have detailed the actual reasons quite extensively. You're just ignoring them to have a silly, conspiratorial rant.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739180#Comment_117739180

Brillant! I think you have just solved all crime and traffic in cities worldwide!

Let's not tackle these problems at source, let's solve city crime and traffic by building the city away from the city! Genius! I am in awe.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739228#Comment_117739228

Well yeah. I'd have thought that was kind of obvious to most right thinking people. I'd rather these people in hospital treating kids or leading research into the next generation of treatments. Not stuck trying to get to the outer reaches of the M50 and back multiple times a day.

Why would you deprive the sick little children of their time with the consultants who you'd rather see stuck in traffic. What have the poor little kiddies done on you?

Shebean

So spiralling cost is a shoulder shrug? If only we looked at social housing or hospital trolley in corridors the same way.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2022/0616/1305185-childrens-hospital/

No way.

Mr Gunning said that while it is on track for "substantial completion ... by the end of January 2024", he expressed concern over "a number of factors which put pressure on this forecasted timeframe".

I look forward to what "substantial completion" looks like. 🤣

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210538#Comment_119210538

No biggie. Sure 'tis only other people's (tax payer) money.

I'd be curious to see the details. I suppose they would be shipping in materials.

tara73

is here anybory with insider knowledge who can explain how in gods name they come to that costs to build a f** hospital? ? Honest question, not rhetorical. Even with all newest and cutting edge equipment included that amount of money is mindboggling and not really explainable.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212156#Comment_119212156

It's Ireland... for all the talk of social and liberal progressivism, it's still the same corrupt, nepotistic and immature backwater it's always been I'm afraid.

We just have better PR than some of those nations in Africa and elsewhere.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212156#Comment_119212156

How? **** you and mind your business, that's how! :P They'll probably have some kind of inquiry costing another few million in 10 years time with lessons to be learned and everyone looking very serious at the results.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212156#Comment_119212156

Government essentially gave BAM a blank chequebook at the tax payers expense

BAM have likely have 30+ people.there on 80 to 100K a year,to find add ons to the job,to squeeze extra money out of client (state here),and justify there wages,

This price deosnt include,the equipement or beds literally just the building,the civils/groundworks industry is filled with cowboys and chancers,our government found among the biggest gougers of em,and handed em a once in a lifetime contract and BAM have run like fcuk with it

Being honest,its actually a miracle such a low hike this time,given the spirraling price of materials at the min

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119213347#Comment_119213347

Yeah but it's a hike on top of an unknown number and is only an estimate because negotiations will be ongoing. You'd think they would have set prices at the outset but hey-ho.

dollylama

Am I wrong in my understanding that a large part of the initial cost creep was down to the state ushering BAM into beginning the build before final designs were finished? I think this revealed at an oireachtas session or in a statement from BAM at some point early in the works, no?

I don't doubt for a second that BAM are a crowd of money-sucking sh*tes and they will make hay in such a situation but if the above is accurate, our civil service and their cronies have to accept a large portion of the blame here?

tara73

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212826#Comment_119212826

tbh this corruption happens in every country from my experience. Except from Africa, it's just done more discreet or however to call it. But 2 billion for a hospital just beats everything.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212156#Comment_119212156

It's not rocket science.

Going into a city center site (as opposed to a green field site) there was a good chance they would hit unknown problems underground and they did.

The site is constricted due to its location (it's too small) and there's already a hospital on site that was also going to increase the cost.

The design is an oval. Once you get into weird shapes it's gets more expensive.

They changed the design and spec (just like grand designs) after they started. That's before you get into problems with the contract.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739302#Comment_117739302

Connolly had more space originally when this process started. They since sold off much of their land. But that ship sailed a long time ago.

The problems that got the Mater site cancelled are exactly the same at the James site. All the problems and sprialling costs only prove those criticisms right.

Flinty997

Co-location wasn't intended to override every thing especially cost, number of beds etc. But IMO it became that to justify the Mater site. There was a lot of professional medical advice against the mater site.

By the time James came around the whole "Get it done" mindset took over and any criticism was framed as just delaying the hospital and won't you think of the children.

All that's old history. Those that wanted the city site and/or "get it done" have got exactly what they ordered.

It's too big to fail and will be made work regardless of any problems or cost.

tara73

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212886#Comment_119212886

yes, that's how it's done in other (european) countries too. It would make sense to give the taxpayer some power to have a sort of referendum that all directly involved must lay there cards on the table when costs exaggerate like this and all involved must lay out to everybody comprehensible where this high costs come from. Mindboggling there's no such thing in place. (Irony on) but hey, we live in such a great democracy here in Europe (irony off)...disgusting.

tara73

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119214063#Comment_119214063

I know how the construction business works, I work in it. Actually, a few years ago I was offered a job from BAM to work on the facade. I declined..

Again, the problem I have with this thing, it's so, so unjustified, all the 'reasons' given never, ever justify an amout of 2 billion for a f** hospital. It's the biggest pi** take I ever came across for a new build. I could give examples of a few recently finished projects around Europe which cost much, much less and are far more innovative. For example the new Philharmony in Hamburg. It was realised under conditions and demands never there and done before so includes innovative solutions accordingly never done before. It cost in total 800 million € in the end...that's less than half of what this hospital, build on a 'normal' site, with no big innovative demands afaik should cost. Absolutely crazy.

tara73

to put it in another context/perspective, the Burj Khalifa, the tallest building in the world cost 1.5 billion (dollar but doesn't make a difference)...😂😂