Lets be real here: The Children's Hospital is a scam

65535

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122296441#Comment_122296441

"I've never been better off than under FFG. 5 more years." - It must be very chilly up there on that high horse

Keep voting FFFGLABGREEN and you will always be able to step over those Rolls Royce poor that you pass every day.

Highlighter75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122297100#Comment_122297100

Every country has poor people. It so happens our worst off, are better off than most worst off in other countries on the planet.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122296236#Comment_122296236

Guess what happens when there is no accountability for failure.

Imagine if the previous FG health ministers were in a private sector company and presided over a project similar to NCH over the last 15 years. Would they have been fired?

csirl

The sad thing is that waiting times are linked to the number of consultants. Without dramatically increasing the number of consultants working in the new hospital, it will just become a more comfortable waiting space for patients with little impact on waiting times.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122297232#Comment_122297232

That, unfortunately is the reality.

A smart plan would be to be recruiting and training the staff that will man the new hospital while it is being built. Instead, the HSE, which is already short staffed has a recruitment freeze. You couldnt make this stuff up.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122297220#Comment_122297220

I get your point, but it doesnt answer the question. Which govt formation would result in an imoroved outcome?

Any future govt will not be part of the privare sector; same rules apply to this govt as any other.

BattleCorp

I've often tried to get on the Luas from the Four Courts to head to Tallaght and there wasn't room to get on the Luas. I had to wait for the next one. Getting to and from the hospital is going to be a nightmare.

Good luck staffing the hospital because many staff won't put up with a nightmare commute every day. There's a recruitment and retention problem in the HSE and this hospital's location will make it worse.

My guess is the hospital won't be open for another 2 years, and probably another €2 billion to be spent.

Cluedo Monopoly

Yeah they have more or less admitted that the NCH won't be open for patients until 2026. FG have completely lost control of it.

Francie Barrett

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41428216.html

Dr Niall Muldoon said although Ireland was one of the wealthiest countries in the world, “we are consistently told we have to tighten our belts” regarding funding for children.

It's amazing how Stephen Donnelly has been let sail under the media radar for botching this.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122331939#Comment_122331939

We have a couple of billion for asylum shoppers though.

mariaalice

This is Ireland it will all be forgotten about when its open and children are bing treated.

orchidkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122308174#Comment_122308174

Would you rather see it dilly and dally for another decade unbuilt? At FG had the balls to take on this project and see it through to the end. The Port Tunnel was massively over budget at its time, 50%. No-one gives a toss about the cost now. The Children's Hospital will be the same. It will be still there 20 years from now while you'll be bitchin' and moaning about something else by then.

And please spare me your faux outrage about the cost. The increase in health spending could build another children's hospital during the same timeframe.

And spare me your faux outrage about the poor sick babies having to wait till 2026. You would not have even have known a new hospital was even needed until the NCH new build hit the headlines.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122332139#Comment_122332139

What a bizarre post!

I've just had a 2 month stay in hospital and can confirm our hospitals are paying the price for this monstrosity

orchidkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122332175#Comment_122332175

No it's not. Did you see any positive impact the recruitment of multiple layers of managers had to the HSE over recent years had on your stay? No? Why not question that? Why not question where the increased current expenditure on Health is going?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122332139#Comment_122332139

Hello nice calm new poster.

Let's just say that the NCH was built on time (2018) and on budget (400-600m) for arguments sake.

There would be around 2 billion available since 2018 to spend on other projects for children. Consider this visit to the Oireachtas Committee on Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth today by the Chrildren's Ombudsman.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41428216.html

Children's Ombudsman 'frustrated and disappointed' at lack of progress on children's issues.

The Children’s Ombudsman has criticised the lack of progress “and even regression” on children’s welfare over the almost 10 years he has been in the role.

Dr Niall Muldoon said although Ireland was one of the wealthiest countries in the world, “we are consistently told we have to tighten our belts” regarding funding for children.

“I feel compelled to use this platform to express my frustration and disappointment at the lack of progress on a number of issues affecting children,” he told the Oireachtas Committee on Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth.

“After almost 10 years in this role, I find myself still listing many of the same issues with no progress, and even regression to show for the passing of time.

“Some of these reoccurring issues include mental health services for children, school places for children with additional needs, services to follow assessments of needs, long waiting lists for children awaiting lifesaving spinal surgeries, and the profound adverse impact on children growing up in transitory accommodation such as homeless hubs, hotels, B&Bs.

=============

So get a grip please. The end does not justify the means in this instance. This is the reality.

orchidkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122332231#Comment_122332231

So everything from B+Bs to spinal surgeries is the fault of the new hospital? Why are you not questioning where the increased current expenditure on Health is going?

Why don't you try make up your own mind and your own arguments rather than parroting on about something that has nothing to do with NCH.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122332256#Comment_122332256

Ah I see. So you completely missed the point. That's fine.

Dav010

On the one hand, we will hopefully have one of the best, most technologically advanced children’s hospitals in the world which will benefit Ireland's child care for generations when it’s finished. In the other hand, it shows the complete lunacy of people who are calling for the State to undertake the building of tens of thousands of homes countrywide. The sheer incompetence of the state bodies which have overseen large scale construction projects, and the ease with which they have been held to ransom by contractors, should be a warning.

ozmo

most technologically advanced children’s hospitals in the world

.. and there is of course no guarantee of that… only that it is the most expensive to build outer shell of a hospital.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122332287#Comment_122332287

Yeah housing is so much better since the state got out of public housing and sold it all off..

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122332681#Comment_122332681

Different times Flinty, you can’t turn back the clock. The children’s hospital shows what happens when the State gets involved in big construction projects. There was a surplus of housing available 15 years ago, never mind when the State was building houses for the poor.

Ireland’s economy and population today is not what it was in 2010.

Flinty997

Trying to claim the NCH is on par for other Irish public projects doesn't hold up.

Its one of the world's most expensive projects for what is being delivered. That's quite something.

This was predicted when the unsuitable Mater site was chosen then only made worst by doing the same with the current site. For sure how the project has been delivered as compounded it. But the seeds were sown when it was a political football under FF and the was gravy train kept going by FG.

Can't be fixed now. Horse has well and truly bolted.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122332824#Comment_122332824

And you don’t think massive scale State housing developments won’t be a political football? How naive is that.

The budget for State building of necessary housing would dwarf the CH.

skimpydoo

5 years ago somebody I know who works in one of Dublin's children's hospitals was being shown what some of the rooms will look like as they will be moving there. They were shown one of the doors that will be used in certain rooms, and they noticed it had no door handles. When this was queried my friend was told that door handles are extra.

When things like this are going unchecked, it's no wonder that the budget keeps expanding.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122332954#Comment_122332954

Do doors usually come with door handles attached?

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122307901#Comment_122307901

Given that one large hosp is replacing three older children's hosps, and thinking about economies of scale, I presume less staff will be needed overall.

What I mean by this is for example, there may currently be three services, across the three existing hosps, but there will be only one service in the new hosp.

Cleaning

Catering

Security

Porters

X-rays

Blood labs

etc., etc.

So hopefully it should be do-able to get staff?

Have all the existing staff of the three hosps that will close been offered transfers?

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122332287#Comment_122332287

That is a very fair point. Yet if we leave it to the market to build houses, not enough are being built.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122332993#Comment_122332993

The three hospitals won’t close. They will still need staff.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333001#Comment_122333001

Then we need to ask ourselves, why is the private sector not building enough housing at a time when selling prices are so high?

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333013#Comment_122333013

Huh?

I thought the whole point is to replace Crumlin and Temple Street?