Quality stuff

K.G.

Where is the quality gone in stuff. Had trouble with a tractor and eventually after alot of messing traced it back to the earth lead of the battery. The thing is that lead is not 12 months old and i gave 30 e for it so i wouldn't describe it as cheap.it was a full factory lead in other words not screwed together but the cable just decentagrated close to the end.while messing with.lead i see the silver is going on new lights fitted 2.years ago.then herself rang and said no gas in the hob.so eventually figured out regulator was gone.same story new regulator gone and it was only replaced recently but the old one was there years and was only changed due accidental damage.sorry for rant but does any thing last anymore .a full morning wasted

Reggie.

K.G. wrote: »

Where is the quality gone in stuff. Had trouble with a tractor and eventually after alot of messing traced it back to the earth lead of the battery. The thing is that lead is not 12 months old and i gave 30 e for it so i wouldn't describe it as cheap.it was a full factory lead in other words not screwed together but the cable just decentagrated close to the end.while messing with.lead i see the silver is going on new lights fitted 2.years ago.then herself rang and said no gas in the hob.so eventually figured out regulator was gone.same story new regulator gone and it was only replaced recently but the old one was there years and was only changed due accidental damage.sorry for rant but does any thing last anymore .a full morning wasted

More money to be made if things need to be replaced. Money is in the parts not selling the item as a whole

Bullocks

Value engineering. I think everything is made with lighter, cheaper more dilute products that will just see them last past warranty dates and I'd say they factor in a few replacements having to be sent out as well before that time. Hard to get quality now

arctictree

I order a few electrical items from Amazon. Most are made in China and the quality is absolutely dire. Even the English translation on the manuals is dismal. I think a lot of the companies that produced the quality stuff have been pushed out of the market by price competition.

Even some of the old brands have gone down the cheap route and the quality is no longer the same. I blame the accountants constantly looking to cut costs and make short term gains.

Mooooo

Had the same with the regulator here for the hob. One to be replaced not long on, cant remember how long the one before it was there. Have heard the red barrels are a better job, have a screw on regulator and will work to minus 30°.
Agree on a lot of stuff not lasting, no doubt how long something lasts is worked into potential sales figures for a lot of stuff. Even the hose handles on drop down hoses or garden hoses, have two blue types with rubber near the nozzle, in the parlour 15 odd years all the other ones don't last 2 years, would break at times squeezing them with the hand

Say my name

It's the same with loader joysticks. Very easily they could be made with stronger material.
But Quicke make them slender and from shopping bags that are designed to break.

Aravo

Any company that made good stuff went bust. Had an old shear grab here. There was sum steel in it, sold it on DD no bother.

enricoh

Had a dewalt grinder that done a serious amount of work over donkeys years. It went bang so got another dewalt that did 5% of the work the old one did before it died.
Got a bosch instead and it's gone now- 4 months old. Dropped it back to the hire shop with the receipt and they have to send it back to bosch. Had to buy another one there and then to get my job done - so now I'll have 2 rubbish grinders!

I think a lot of brands are trading on their former glories nowadays.

Mac Taylor

arctictree wrote: »

I order a few electrical items from Amazon. Most are made in China and the quality is absolutely dire. Even the English translation on the manuals is dismal. I think a lot of the companies that produced the quality stuff have been pushed out of the market by price competition.

Even some of the old brands have gone down the cheap route and the quality is no longer the same. I blame the accountants constantly looking to cut costs and make short term gains.

I don’t think it’s the accountants fault.... it’s now all about shareholder value be it pension funds, shareholders, employees bonuses etc. Yoy sales growth, increased profits.....previously the power was with the manufacture now its with the retailer. The retailer will give you a price point and you work back from there. TAke food for example, look at how much food has reduced as a % of income yet the retailer has never made so much....look at clothes.....Penney’s through away culture....in the past if you bought a suit it was expected to last a lifetime not now.......

148multi

Reggie. wrote: »

More money to be made if things need to be replaced. Money is in the parts not selling the item as a whole

Look up phoebus cartel, they divided up the globe, reduced the life span of the light bulb, all to increase profits.
In the eastern block countries during the cold War washing machines had to last a min 25 years to be allowed on the market, they didn't have the resources for a disposable economy.

K.G.

I know someone who works in aplace that makes wiring looms for cars.a new version of a car comes out and the tender goes out for supplying the looms.this crowd rarely win the first round but if the warranty s cost more than difference in the tenders they get the next contract.its the way it works

patsy_mccabe

As someone that works as a design engineer, it's sickening the way consumer products have gone. Accountants have ruined the show. Things may change though in the future, driven by environment reasons. Throw away items ain't good for the environment. Plus consumers should be protected from garbage.
Karcher power washers would be a good example. Made from butter.

kk.man

Jjameson wrote: »

Ah be the lord I’d say you’d have to make do with a broken crudely designed and made machine for 24 years!
The Germans were the world standard. Bosch washing machine built in the early 90’s can’t be worn out if you change a few parts when needed.

Any German stuff was great in the past and the English stuff was good too. They used to be called 'the workshop of the world'.

Stihl waters

Theres no money out of something that doesn't need to be replaced

ruwithme

Just on the thread title, I'd say the same thing on lots of work done nowadays by tradesmen e.t.c.

Can't get in and out fast enough in too many cases.
Its not always the case that people want a job done cheaply.

cjpm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

As someone that works as a design engineer, it's sickening the way consumer products have gone. Accountants have ruined the show. Things may change though in the future, driven by environment reasons. Throw away items ain't good for the environment. Plus consumers should be protected from garbage.
Karcher power washers would be a good example. Made from butter.

Id be handy enough fixing stuff. Neighbour dropped in a Karcher. The biggest ball of ****e ive seen in a long time.

djmc

I remember hearing a story before about the first lightbulbs were invented they lasted around 30 years and the companies almost went bust It was only when they changed the fittings and made cheap light bulbs that would blow after a certain period of time that they started to make big profits.

Mac Taylor

Mac Taylor wrote: »

I don’t think it’s the accountants fault.... it’s now all about shareholder value be it pension funds, shareholders, employees bonuses etc. Yoy sales growth, increased profits.....previously the power was with the manufacture now its with the retailer. The retailer will give you a price point and you work back from there. TAke food for example, look at how much food has reduced as a % of income yet the retailer has never made so much....look at clothes.....Penney’s through away culture....in the past if you bought a suit it was expected to last a lifetime not now.......

Your dead right,watch as agco will skim back the quality on the old welger stuff and trash its reputation inside 20 years


I remember years ago,learning to dismantle,adjust,modify and clean the old honda carbs,taking upto half a day at times.....these can now be bought for as little as e12 vs e150.....you cant honestly expect them to last as long anymore or be of remotely similar quality

foxy farmer

Up till about 10 yrs ago I could get steel offcuts from a scrap collector. He had a heap of it mostly plate but other forms as well but it was all gathered from the one source- the Liebherr crane factory in Killarney.
Nothing would touch it for corrosion resistance. Harder to cut with the grinder as well. I've made loader attachments from it and they were never painted. No layers of rust flaking off them after a few yrs in the open. The stuff you get in merchants is chocolate by comparison. Galvanizing is the only solution.

dohc turbo2

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

As someone that works as a design engineer, it's sickening the way consumer products have gone. Accountants have ruined the show. Things may change though in the future, driven by environment reasons. Throw away items ain't good for the environment. Plus consumers should be protected from garbage.
Karcher power washers would be a good example. Made from butter.

that is for sure was in a hardware place few days ago and lifted one , I asked ur lad was there any pump in it he said it was , it was the lightest washer I ever felt , I couldn’t get over it

jimini0

M parents bought a deep freezer 32 years ago for 200 pound. That was a huge amount back then. Neighbours thought she was crazy. Fast forward 32 years its still goin strong. Dont know the make but it has paid for itself 100 times over.
Would you get 10 years out of one these days?

NcdJd

Bet most of these companies also have environmental sustainability waffle all over their websites too. Cowboys the lot of them.

yosemitesam1

Something that is going on in the background that might be contributing is that a very large proportion of "returns" are actually dumped because it's deemed to costly to get products checked and reintegrated to complicated supply chains.
It happens all sorts of products from clothes to ovens depending on the supplier

NcdJd

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Something that is going on in the background that might be contributing is that a very large proportion of "returns" are actually dumped because it's deemed to costly to get products checked and reintegrated to complicated supply chains.
It happens all sorts of products from clothes to ovens depending on the supplier

They are not "dumped" Sam they are "recycled". Your only causing device anxiety amongst our climate change activists. Smart computer devices are recycled into a smart water retaining mulch which is used when planting native trees in desert locations by global corporations that care for the environment.

amacca

djmc wrote: »

I remember hearing a story before about the first lightbulbs were invented they lasted around 30 years and the companies almost went bust It was only when they changed the fittings and made cheap light bulbs that would blow after a certain period of time that they started to make big profits.

There is ine of those original filament lightbulbs still going strong in a library in the states a hundred odd years later if Im not mistaken. Remember listening to a podcast about it and how the companies got together and agreed to make an inferior lightbulb to make the business more profitable and carve up the market between them.

Think of all the needless waste there ... us humans are a bunch of gob****es in some respects, we wont put effort in where we should....but then again maybe LEDs wouldnt have been developed as quick for domestic use if no one needed to change their filament bulb for a hundred years.

blue5000

NcdJd wrote: »

They are not "dumped" Sam they are "recycled". Your only causing device anxiety amongst our climate change activists. Smart computer devices are recycled into a smart water retaining mulch which is used when planting native trees in desert locations by global corporations that care for the environment.

But what choices can we make as consumers? We could buy an antique Georgian mahogany table at a local auction for less than a plywood/chipboard/veneer piece of crap from Ikea. But will we? Of course not. We've all been conditioned to want new stuff, even if it is crap. It seems to be this way with everything today from cars to tractors, household white goods, furniture, electronics, clothes, tools and even food.

I think one good thing about covid is that people have begun to ask questions and at least think about not buying stuff and making do with what they have. This has already hit the rag trade, hard, look at all the clothes shops gone bust this year.

Reggie.

jimini0 wrote: »

M parents bought a deep freezer 32 years ago for 200 pound. That was a huge amount back then. Neighbours thought she was crazy. Fast forward 32 years its still goin strong. Dont know the make but it has paid for itself 100 times over.
Would you get 10 years out of one these days?

Would ya get 5

NcdJd

blue5000 wrote: »

But what choices can we make as consumers? We could buy an antique Georgian mahogany table at a local auction for less than a plywood/chipboard/veneer piece of crap from Ikea. But will we? Of course not. We've all been conditioned to want new stuff, even if it is crap. It seems to be this way with everything today from cars to tractors, household white goods, furniture, electronics, clothes, tools and even food.

I think one good thing about covid is that people have begun to ask questions and at least think about not buying stuff and making do with what they have. This has already hit the rag trade, hard, look at all the clothes shops gone bust this year.

Couldn't agree more with you Blue, but we are being conditioned by the same companies that waffle on about sustainability. I guess it's nothing new, but getting to a stage where it is ridiculous the amount of waste people are creating now to say 30 years ago. But I always maintain that when things are cheap, people don't appreciate them and are more inclined to throw it out rather than fix it.

But again it might be something deeper than that and may also be related to the fact that we don't have to be experts to understand something to operate it. Just plug it in and hit a switch. No reading manuals or anything like that.

May also be related to our brains having less attention spans and rather than reading a book about a subject we now have information on that by just using Google.. I think as a species we are getting thicker... or maybe it's just me ha..

I always think to years ago when I'd go onto town to buy a record of a band I'd like, I'd reading everything on the sleeve down to where it was made credits etc and sit there and look a the record going around and listen to the whole album and probably a few times more ha.. later when cds came in I just treat them like bits of plastic.. I've probably 60 cds sitting in my press that I haven't the time to listen to yet..

No idea what I'm waffling about now but I want to ask ye all a question..

When you first got a washing machine, did ye all sit there watching it do it's first wash ? We did, remember being somewhat nervous and excited when it done the spin ha

jimini0

When you first got a washing machine, did ye all sit there watching it do it's first wash ? We did, remember being somewhat nervous and excited when it done the spin ha[/quote]

And the proper instructions on how to use it written on paper and taped to the front of it.
With a highlighted part about what not to do

_Brian

When nearly everyone buys on price quality items have little market and so suppliers become fewer and fewer over time.

Lots of companies have allowed accountants too much control so supplies have been outsourced based on cost rather than quality.

It’s also annoying to see so many items designed to throw away rather than repair.

djmc

I was going to attach a photo but not sure how but we have a general electric dryer in every day use with over 40 years purchased by my parents in the early 1980s. It only needed a new fan belt 10 years ago

Banana Republic 1

K.G. wrote: »

Where is the quality gone in stuff. Had trouble with a tractor and eventually after alot of messing traced it back to the earth lead of the battery. The thing is that lead is not 12 months old and i gave 30 e for it so i wouldn't describe it as cheap.it was a full factory lead in other words not screwed together but the cable just decentagrated close to the end.while messing with.lead i see the silver is going on new lights fitted 2.years ago.then herself rang and said no gas in the hob.so eventually figured out regulator was gone.same story new regulator gone and it was only replaced recently but the old one was there years and was only changed due accidental damage.sorry for rant but does any thing last anymore .a full morning wasted

Blame our old friend capitalism because has inbuilt obsolescence and also because the rush to cut costs means shoddy quality.

That said I’ve known a few fellas who would break iron just by looking at it. On the other hand better small stuff breaks before the house burns down.

yosemitesam1

_Brian wrote: »

When nearly everyone buys on price quality items have little market and so suppliers become fewer and fewer over time.

Lots of companies have allowed accountants too much control so supplies have been outsourced based on cost rather than quality.

It’s also annoying to see so many items designed to throw away rather than repair.

Even though officially there's been very little inflation over the last decade, maybe this is how it's actually happening under the radar. There's a definite erosion of purchasing power out there if quality is taken into account.
Central banks are probably at least as guilty as accountanting departmentts in driving this trend.

kk.man

djmc wrote: »

I was going to attach a photo but not sure how but we have a general electric dryer in every day use with over 40 years purchased by my parents in the early 1980s. It only needed a new fan belt 10 years ago

I have an LG fridge freezer bought 20 years this year going strong. LG had just arrived from the states around that time. I don't think the LG stuff is as good now.

timple23

What does the CE mark even stand for anymore? Companies should be made meet quality standards for their produce in the same way that farmers have SBLAS etc.

Its reduce/reuse/recycle. Not recycle/reuse/reduce.

Banana Republic 1

kk.man wrote: »

I have an LG fridge freezer bought 20 years this year going strong. LG had just arrived from the states around that time. I don't think the LG stuff is as good now.

LG are making the batteries for the new vw electric cars.

blue5000

timple23 wrote: »

What does the CE mark even stand for anymore? Companies should be made meet quality standards for their produce in the same way that farmers have SBLAS etc.

Its reduce/reuse/recycle. Not recycle/reuse/reduce.

China engineering:rolleyes:.

Donegalforever

K.G. wrote: »

Where is the quality gone in stuff. Had trouble with a tractor and eventually after alot of messing traced it back to the earth lead of the battery. The thing is that lead is not 12 months old and i gave 30 e for it so i wouldn't describe it as cheap.it was a full factory lead in other words not screwed together but the cable just decentagrated close to the end.while messing with.lead i see the silver is going on new lights fitted 2.years ago.then herself rang and said no gas in the hob.so eventually figured out regulator was gone.same story new regulator gone and it was only replaced recently but the old one was there years and was only changed due accidental damage.sorry for rant but does any thing last anymore .a full morning wasted

Items made in China ?

dh1985

It's not just Chinese stuff that have become poor.
Most brands are minimising costs to maximise profits. A tv years ago would last 20 years. Now they are seen as disposable after a few years. But the c0st of these items have dropped significantly also. It's hard to have quality and a low cost base. Also alot of the products now are 0ver engineered. All bells and whistles but only leads to bigger pr0blems down the road that cannot be remedied easily. Same across all product sectors. Everyone wants the next big thing, new invention or gadget and thes products are rushed through development and are really not to satisfactory quality. A good example lately is the 737 max. An powerhouse in American manufacturing. I wont start on the crap that's coming out of germany

Morris Moss

Just to put something up that is good quality, not cheap but leatherman multi tools are brilliant and they have a 25 year warranty.

bamayang

I’d say part of the issue is, items like tools or power washers are designed with a certain person in mind. They are being designed for the lad who will buy it with great intentions of doing loads of work but then leave it on a shelf for years. He’ll never even figure out it’s useless.
Most of the lads on this forum are farming and probably going to be using bits a lot more and doing heavier work. You are unfortunately not the target market, you aren’t where the bulk of the money is made. So the companies are quite happy to piss you off and keep the other lads happy.

ruwithme

You make a good point there bamayang. In some cases for specific quailty tools you do need to shop in the specialist provider's. Local co ops and merchants may often not have them able tools

bamayang

bamayang wrote: »

I’d say part of the issue is, items like tools or power washers are designed with a certain person in mind. They are being designed for the lad who will buy it with great intentions of doing loads of work but then leave it on a shelf for years. He’ll never even figure out it’s useless.
Most of the lads on this forum are farming and probably going to be using bits a lot more and doing heavier work. You are unfortunately not the target market, you aren’t where the bulk of the money is made. So the companies are quite happy to piss you off and keep the other lads happy.

Even stuff with lifetime warrenty like teng tools,tradionally highly regarded,quality is shocking now


I stopped replacing/repairing rachets and bought different brand,and they dont stand upto any airgun use vs stuff even 5 years ago

green daries

Jjameson wrote: »

So if we are to get serious about the environmental impact what are the solutions? A certification of being fit for purpose for an determined length of time, repairability ect?

Ya absolutely the way to go as someone else said make the CE mark stand for something again would be a great starting point
.......but I'm afraid were too soft a touch to be blamed with the various types of pollution destroying the planet and everyone else get the next gadget /outfit/ phone etc..
Its look over there dirty farming nothing to see here with throwaway living

Padre_Pio

bamayang wrote: »

I’d say part of the issue is, items like tools or power washers are designed with a certain person in mind.

Read a design guide a while back. The average Bosch green drill runs for 12 minutes. So if they design a drill to run for 15 minutes of life, they probably covered 80% of drills sold.

The other 20% might break, but sure no one returns things any more, they'll just buy a new one, so more money to be made.

People will put price above anything else now. There's no money to be made making expensive products, and your B&Q, Woodies, Homebase etc wont sell expensive gear that might sit on a shelf for 6 months. They're all about turnover.

Jb1989

dh1985 wrote: »

It's not just Chinese stuff that have become poor.
Most brands are minimising costs to maximise profits. A tv years ago would last 20 years. Now they are seen as disposable after a few years. But the c0st of these items have dropped significantly also. It's hard to have quality and a low cost base. Also alot of the products now are 0ver engineered. All bells and whistles but only leads to bigger pr0blems down the road that cannot be remedied easily. Same across all product sectors. Everyone wants the next big thing, new invention or gadget and thes products are rushed through development and are really not to satisfactory quality. A good example lately is the 737 max. An powerhouse in American manufacturing. I wont start on the crap that's coming out of germany

Definitely agree with your post here.

Nekarsulm

Hard to have a quality mark when it's easy to copy.
CE mark used to mean something untill Chinese manufacturers started using it and claiming it stood for "China Export".
Hard to find quality without incurring expensive mistakes, but forums like this are great.
Ask what brand of wrench, drill or widget is best, and you'll get answers based on experience, rather than paid promotional pop-up ads.

bamayang

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Hard to have a quality mark when it's easy to copy.
CE mark used to mean something untill Chinese manufacturers started using it and claiming it stood for "China Export".
Hard to find quality without incurring expensive mistakes, but forums like this are great.
Ask what brand of wrench, drill or widget is best, and you'll get answers based on experience, rather than paid promotional pop-up ads.

Not to derail the thread, but a good few comments suggested karcher are gone to ****. Are there any good brands for handy electric power washers? €2-300ish?

blue5000

bamayang wrote: »

Not to derail the thread, but a good few comments suggested karcher are gone to ****. Are there any good brands for handy electric power washers? €2-300ish?

Whelan will know;)

Youtube is full of paid promoters too, But AvE and his teardown videos are good.

Sacrolyte

blue5000 wrote: »

Whelan will know;)

Youtube is full of paid promoters too, But AvE and his teardown videos are good.

I’d say she even power hoses the Childers.

Jb1989

blue5000 wrote: »

Whelan will know;)

Youtube is full of paid promoters too, But AvE and his teardown videos are good.

Djmc that posts here reviews small items too, honest reviews and not being paid.