Gambling Culture

Rolling Stone

For me, the advent of online gambling is the biggest problem. It’s on tap 24/7 and there is always something to bet on. Always.

At least with the shops you have to get cash and into your car; it’s not always possible and can’t be done 24/7. There is also a greater level of anonymity with online gambling as you simply don’t have deal with anyone.

I was somewhat lucky in that I had just about enough discipline that I didn’t lose crazy money (I still lost). The worst thing for me with online gambling was the detachment from family time and the ease at which a bet could be made.

I found I was making stupid bets on all sorts of games simply because I could. I would never have made the trip to the bookies to make these bets but all I had to do was pick up the phone whilst lying on the sofa.

The crazy thing is that if you start doing well online your account will soon be restricted or closed. When I started doing well with a particular bet these bets were quickly limited to €0.01 per stake. It is impossible to maintain a winning account online as every account is closely monitored.

I would absolutely urge anyone with an online gambling account to close it ASAP. It’s simply not worth it in so many ways. If it hasn’t already been restricted or closed it means you’re losing anyway!

Bonniedog

Ashleigh1986 wrote: »

What a stupid comment ....if walking your dog , cutting your grass caused as many problems to Irish families as gambling or drinking or drug use than yes tax it to help with rehab .
I hope a gambling addiction or any other addiction doesn't visit your family .
But beleive me the law of averages suggest one day it will .

i did drink too much. I stopped. No-one dragged me into the pub, and it is not an addiction, it is a bad habit that becomes a dependency. Same as anything else can become if you let it.

I know lots of people who drink and bet too much, and who are otherwise irresponsible. That is their doing. There are laws to prevent people illegally betting or drinking or smoking under a certain age. That's the extent of any interference there ought to be.

petes

Bonniedog wrote: »

i did drink too much. I stopped. No-one dragged me into the pub, and it is not an addiction, it is a bad habit that becomes a dependency. Same as anything else can become if you let it.

Are you saying personally it wasn't an addiction or that alcohol abuse etc. isn't an addiction?

petes

petes wrote: »

Are you saying personally it wasn't an addiction or that alcohol abuse etc. isn't an addiction?

Alcohol is the same as gambling. Not a thing wrong with a drink or a bet, the people who make issues for themselves are the problem and shouldn’t dictate how the majority are treated.

Muahahaha

Dont think anyone is advocating for the banning of gambling, just the regulation of it of which there is none in Ireland so far. Its a 10 billion a year industry with zero regulation, like where else would you see that?

Its estimated there are 40,000 problem gamblers in the country, thats who the regulation is needed for. People who get in too deep and end up destroying their own lives and those of their families because of it. Because there is no regulation the bookies are free to suck these 40,000 people dry for everything they have got and there are absolutely doing so, you only need to look at that postman who Paddy Power allowed to gamble 10 million euro despite knowing all along he had a postmans salary and was in way out of his depth. They never said stop, in fact they did the opposite and made him a VIP and gave him tickets to major sporting events to keep him gambling.

In the UK now its the bookies responsibility to catch problem gamblers who are betting beyond their means and remove them from their system. Gambling with credit cards is no longer legal as this is the first source of money for broke gamblers but it is still allowed here.

Regulation of the gambling industry wont matter a jot for the 95% of punters who have self discipline and are never a problem. Regulation is needed for that 5% for who gambling becomes an addiction and they end up leaving a trail of destruction behind them.

petes

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Alcohol is the same as gambling. Not a thing wrong with a drink or a bet, the people who make issues for themselves are the problem and shouldn’t dictate how the majority are treated.

I never said there was anything wrong with a drink or a bet and it isn't the question I asked.

You think people purposefully make these issues for themselves? Obviously a severe lack of understanding and knowledge in this area. I'll leave it there though as it's dragging the thread off the topic.

Montage of Feck

SpacialNeeds wrote: »

The industry certainly shouldn't be legally permitted to advertise.

Good idea, wouldn't have to listen that one about listening to your hunch. Patronising mush.

Pauliedragon

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The amount of bookies we have in the country is insane. Seedy hellholes designed to extract cash from lonely men.

Id love to ban them completely and leave its depravity only to the internet , but knowing that will never happen id love to see bookies only be allowed open 4pm till 8pm to stop them being the welfare to corporate profit conversion shops all day at my expense

I worked in a bookies for a few years up until recently. Not one customer was on welfare. No lonely men they were all married with families who spent well within their means some of whome came in with their wives, partners.
Generalising is not fair on people.
We have a habit of blaming the wrong people sometimes in society.
Too many drunks blame the pubs.
Too many gamblers blame the bookies.
Too many fat kids blame the fast food joints.
Last time I checked anywhere I worked nobody what hancuffed to the counter, bar and forced to put a bet on or order a pint. It's restricted to over 18's for a reason as we are adults then and supposed to be able to make informed decisions at that stage of our lives. If that decision is wrong tough **** there's a phone number on every poster in the shop who'll help you out and the person behind the counter can also self exclude you within 5 mins should you wish.

Choosehowevr.

Pauliedragon wrote: »

I worked in a bookies for a few years up until recently. Not one customer was on welfare. No lonely men they were all married with families who spent well within their means some of whome came in with their wives, partners.
Generalising is not fair on people.
We have a habit of blaming the wrong people sometimes in society.
Too many drunks blame the pubs.
Too many gamblers blame the bookies.
Too many fat kids blame the fast food joints.
Last time I checked anywhere I worked nobody what hancuffed to the counter, bar and forced to put a bet on or order a pint. It's restricted to over 18's for a reason as we are adults then and supposed to be able to make informed decisions at that stage of our lives. If that decision is wrong tough **** there's a phone number on every poster in the shop who'll help you out and the person behind the counter can also self exclude you within 5 mins should you wish.

Not one customer on welfare

I'm calling bs

weldoninhio

Pauliedragon wrote: »

I worked in a bookies for a few years up until recently. Not one customer was on welfare. No lonely men they were all married with families who spent well within their means some of whome came in with their wives, partners.
Generalising is not fair on people.
We have a habit of blaming the wrong people sometimes in society.
Too many drunks blame the pubs.
Too many gamblers blame the bookies.
Too many fat kids blame the fast food joints.
Last time I checked anywhere I worked nobody what hancuffed to the counter, bar and forced to put a bet on or order a pint. It's restricted to over 18's for a reason as we are adults then and supposed to be able to make informed decisions at that stage of our lives. If that decision is wrong tough **** there's a phone number on every poster in the shop who'll help you out and the person behind the counter can also self exclude you within 5 mins should you wish.

Some Irish seem to need a firm hand to keep them in check. Whether it’s the Brits, the Catholic Church, the EU or a nanny state government. I suppose it’s a lot easier than having to take responsibility for your own actions. We’re a pathetically immature country in a lot of ways.

fantaiscool

Rolling Stone wrote: »

For me, the advent of online gambling is the biggest problem. It’s on tap 24/7 and there is always something to bet on. Always.

At least with the shops you have to get cash and into your car; it’s not always possible and can’t be done 24/7. There is also a greater level of anonymity with online gambling as you simply don’t have deal with anyone.

I was somewhat lucky in that I had just about enough discipline that I didn’t lose crazy money (I still lost). The worst thing for me with online gambling was the detachment from family time and the ease at which a bet could be made.

I found I was making stupid bets on all sorts of games simply because I could. I would never have made the trip to the bookies to make these bets but all I had to do was pick up the phone whilst lying on the sofa.

The crazy thing is that if you start doing well online your account will soon be restricted or closed. When I started doing well with a particular bet these bets were quickly limited to €0.01 per stake. It is impossible to maintain a winning account online as every account is closely monitored.

I would absolutely urge anyone with an online gambling account to close it ASAP. It’s simply not worth it in so many ways. If it hasn’t already been restricted or closed it means you’re losing anyway!

Exactly. Good post. They will allow you to lose money but as soon as you show some sort of smarts in our betting and start winning consistently, you will be limited to peanuts. I got told it was a "business decision". Basically I was bad for business because I wasn't gambling like an idiot. They want mugs or people who are guaranteed to make stupid bets, casino etc.

Pauliedragon

Choosehowevr. wrote: »

Not one customer on welfare

I'm calling bs

I'm not going to get into an online argument mate. This shop was in the middle of a small town. I knew exactly where all of them worked.

Bonniedog

petes wrote: »

Are you saying personally it wasn't an addiction or that alcohol abuse etc. isn't an addiction?

Addiction implies that it is some kind of chemical thing. I don't think it is. It is big debate in regard to drinking about whether it is an addiction or a habit that weakens your will and you become dependent on it. i would incline to the latter.

It is certainly not a disease in the way that other physical and psychological afflictions are. You cannot decide not to have MS or cancer. You can decide to stop drinking, smoking, betting, downloading porn or whatever habit you might have.

BTW, i am not uncritical of the betting business. The promotion of online gaming is indeed predatory. From my experience, it attracts a different sort of punter to those who bet on horses or dogs or sports. Latter is combination of casual watching the telly betting, or more serious form based punting. The online stuff is just meaningless to me, and i know exactly why bookies try to entice their sports customers on to them.

Muahahaha

Luis Dazzling Deodorant wrote: »

It will likely matter to a % of that 95% though. People who bet with hundreds/thousands. I can't see how a max stake isn't brought in which will really hurt a % of the punters out there.

Well its all relative, Id have no problems with a multi millionaire wanting to lay a 50k bet but there is a problem when a bookie allows someone on a postmans salary to bet 10 million. They are the people who need to be regulated because they've fallen into addiction. There is no point saying 'personal responsibility' when someone is so far addicted that they are gambling way beyond their means.

Much in the same way a publican is obliged to stop serving a drunk when theyve had too much so too should bookies say stop when its clear and obvious that they are in it way above their necks. At the end of the day its society via the taxpayer who has to mop up these problems so why should we be subsidising the fall out of the problems created by a private industry, it should be their responsibility to be running a clean shop.

blackbox

I don't gamble myself except for the very occasional lotto ticket.

I would not be in favour of banning betting but there should not be ads visible to children.

Also, a bookie should not be able to refuse any bet at advertised odds unless it is so big that it threatens the liquidity/reserves of the business.

Bonniedog

blackbox wrote: »

I don't gamble myself except for the very occasional lotto ticket.

I would not be in favour of banning betting but there should not be ads visible to children.

Also, a bookie should not be able to refuse any bet at advertised odds unless it is so big that it threatens the liquidity/reserves of the business.

That's the real issue, and it's worse since PP established their dominance. they even own Betfair whose fixed odds is exactly the same as PP.

The exchange has survived so far as it is punters money against other punters with a commission to the host (BF/PP). That's the best medium if you want to avoid being limited or closed. Although your info is then available to PP who can get you if you also have an account with them!

Montage of Feck

There was a documentary on RTE R1 about a group from kerry used a loophole to game the odds and make themselves a huge profit. The plan worked but the vast majority of bookies refused to pay despite no illegality having taken place, just goes to show that the house always wins.

ILoveYourVibes

FIRSTLY ..everyone gambles ....just we don't do it often.



They are horrible companies. PP is the worst.

Most of their customers are not wealthy people and never will be.

But it does provide some jobs.

People have to take personal responsibility though.

Both men and women gamble ..but according to stats ..most problem gamblers are men.

Why are most problem gamblers men?
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43002380

It found little difference between the sexes - 66% of all men and 59% of all women took part in some form of gambling, including the lottery.

But men were seven-and-a-half times more likely than women to become a problem gambler - which the organisation defines as someone whose habit compromises, disrupts or damages family, personal or recreational pursuits.

Choosehowevr.

Posters are literally posting about personal responsibility etc. in relation to addiction

Thats ok that's their level of awareness of problem gambling , they're not familiar with addiction and addicts

I'm not an addict myself btw

fantaiscool

Choosehowevr. wrote: »

Posters are literally posting about personal responsibility etc. in relation to addiction

Thats ok that's their level of awareness of problem gambling , they're not familiar with addiction and addicts

I'm not an addict myself btw

its not easy to understand because addiction is a tough concept to get into your head.

I can go for a drink and have one or two pints and leave it there but at the same time I have mates who if they drink one drink will have to get drunk.

I can smoke one joint and leave it at that but at the same time I have mates who once they have a smoke will have to get stoned.

I think gambling is like this. I can lose money gambling and walk away and wait for another opportunity to put my money down on something I think I have an edge on. I have friends who will gamble on something until they lose and then continue to gamble to try to "win their money back" but of course they end up losing everything.

In all cases when I've been in the company of these lads and tried to talk them out of it I might as well have been talking to a wall. It was clear to me that they had no control over it and you had to just let them do it and then talk to them once it was all over and they have regained themselves.

AidoEirE

fantaiscool wrote: »

its easy to understand because addiction is a tough concept to get into your head.

I can go for a drink and have one or two pints and leave it there but at the same time I have mates who if they drink one drink will have to get drunk.

I can smoke one joint and leave it at that but at the same time I have mates who once they have a smoke will have to get stoned.

I think gambling is like this. I can lose money gambling and walk away and wait for another opportunity to put my money down on something I think I have an edge on. I have friends who will gamble on something until they lose and then continue to gamble to try to "win their money back" but of course they end up losing everything.

In all cases when I've been in the company of these lads and tried to talk them out of it I might as well have been talking to a wall. It was clear to me that they had no control over it and you had to just let them do it and then talk to them once it was all over and they have regained themselves.

It's literally this, it's all about self "awareness" not sure if that's the right word. Times where I'd bet stupidly to my own means (50/60e in one night). But then I could stop betting for weeks/months on end. I realised I was never going to get that big win so now I bet just for a bit of craic of 10/20e every other week. Since lockdown i just haven't bothered and haven't done it at all.

It's easy to cast judgements on people, but that person needs to realise that nope your not coming out on top with these odds. Self awareness comes in to play again by the person.
Gy

It's so much harder for folks these days with online betting so easy, lockdown where people are stuck in doors, absolute boredom, heavy advertisement on TV and jersey's. Not easy for a lot.

Choosehowevr.

There's a reason why almost all addiction counsellors and people who work in treatment centres are addicts themselves

You can see it here in the majority of posting, the awareness or understanding is missing

Non addicts usually don't understand addiction

Personal responsibility , they need to get a grip ,etc

fantaiscool

Choosehowevr. wrote: »

There's a reason why almost all addiction counsellors and people who work in treatment centres are addicts themselves

You can see it here in the majority of posting, the awareness or understanding is missing

Non addicts usually don't understand addiction

Personal responsibility , they need to get a grip ,etc

It's personal responsibility and self awareness to a point. Like if you know that you can't stop yourself once you start, then you simply don't allow yourself to start. In alcoholic anonymous they stand up and say "im an addict" even if they haven't drank for 20 years because they understand and have the self awareness to know that they cannot control themselves once they drink. If they were to have one sup of alcohol from a can they'd be f*cked and on a serious session which is completely out of their control once they start going. That's my understanding anyway

poker--addict

Bambaata wrote: »

The bookies are criminals. This "responsible gambling" crap is a con to make it look like they care. They only care about lining their own pockets. I come from the other side of it, i follow a group of very professional "tipsters" that has me running at about 12% ROI so far this year, every bet tracked, every bet put on following reivew of the value of odds given. Theres no emotion, you lose you move on, you win you move on. Everything is placed at defined stakes so you dont lose the run of yourself and protect your bank.

This is when it becomes obvious that the bookies are criminals who dont care. Ive been shut down by Sky, Will Hill, BetVictor, Betfair, Paddy, Unibet, Mr Green etc because im winning. They basically restirct those that gamble respobsibly and actually make money off them. Thankfully there are ways to get new accounts but its obvious how little they care. In the group there are lots of stories of lads who had bad affairs with gambling and the bookies kept enticing them to keep losing via offers to keep bleeding them dry.

Same. Unable to get bets on without significant hassle. Being involved in professional betting is eye opening- the bookies say they are an “entertainment industry” when challenged, they don’t say that when advertising “win big”.

poker--addict

Not sure I agree with the self awareness posts. They are true to a certain extent, but there is a lack of awareness generally about how the industry really works, who can and can’t make win, and what happens if you do manage to win (even small amounts consistently).

You can also only drink or smoke so much before you pass out or end up in hospital. Such addictions can be caught. You can’t drink 300,000 euro. Gambling is different, it’s quiet, it’s now easy with mobiles. And you can lose your house and more before the train comes off the tracks.

The industry is dark. Rather than shut it down though, it should simply be taxed to the hilt. Then the money can be directed towards education and fixing some of the damage.

ILoveYourVibes

Choosehowevr. wrote: »

Posters are literally posting about personal responsibility etc. in relation to addiction

Thats ok that's their level of awareness of problem gambling , they're not familiar with addiction and addicts

I'm not an addict myself btw

I understand where you are coming from.

But addiction doesn't absolve one from responsibility.

We always say ..addicts have to want to change and they have to do it themselves.

They are the ones who need to become self aware and help themselves. The first step is getting self banned from these places.

Bonniedog

Choosehowevr. wrote: »

There's a reason why almost all addiction counsellors and people who work in treatment centres are addicts themselves

You can see it here in the majority of posting, the awareness or understanding is missing

Non addicts usually don't understand addiction

Personal responsibility , they need to get a grip ,etc

Maybe that's why addiction counselling and treatment centres run by ex addicts have massive failure rate?

There is nothing to suggest that AA or GA have anything other than very low success rates. There is rather large literature on this. One reason suggested being that they just replace one dependency with another. "Alcoholics" become lifelong "alcoholics who don't drink" and spend most of their time talking about drink at meetings instead of drinking in pubs.

I did drink way too much, to extent it had pretty bad health implications. It had just become a lazy habit with all the consequences that has. It was my own doing, as was stopping. Just stop and do something else. We do it all the time. This "one day at a time" stuff is just swapping one dependency for another IMHO.

fantaiscool

Bonniedog wrote: »

Maybe that's why addiction counselling and treatment centres run by ex addicts have massive failure rate?

There is nothing to suggest that AA or GA have anything other than very low success rates. There is rather large literature on this. One reason suggested being that they just replace one dependency with another. "Alcoholics" become lifelong "alcoholics who don't drink" and spend most of their time talking about drink at meetings instead of drinking in pubs.

I did drink way too much, to extent it had pretty bad health implications. It had just become a lazy habit with all the consequences that has. It was my own doing, as was stopping. Just stop and do something else. We do it all the time. This "one day at a time" stuff is just swapping one dependency for another IMHO.

I think with alcohol and other drugs once you get to a certain point there is actually a physiological thing happening in your body where you need the alcohol for your body to function normally. Stopping cold turkey is probably tremendously hard and even dangerous for some.

With gambling I think the addiction is to the hit that you get when you win a bet. Dopamine or whatever gets released and gives you that feel good feeling that you might not be getting anywhere else in life. All im saying is that it's not quite as easy as just stopping and replacing it.

Saying this, I've never really been addicted to things myself. Maybe certain foods but if I saw my waistline had got to a certain point it was time to go on a diet.

simongurnick

I think a key element to addiction, whether gambling or substances, is that it is filling a gap in the life of the addict or it is papering over some cracks. Something is amiss and gambling or drinking provides avoidance of dealing with the issue and provides some temporary release and or happiness.
Getting down to that core issue is key, not simply stopping etc.

simongurnick

simongurnick wrote: »

I think a key element to addiction, whether gambling or substances, is that it is filling a gap in the life of the addict or it is papering over some cracks. Something is amiss and gambling or drinking provides avoidance of dealing with the issue and provides some temporary release and or happiness.
Getting down to that core issue is key, not simply stopping etc.

That’s if it’s an issue. For the majority it’s just something they like to do rather than something to be clutching the pearls about.