Limerick Forum Ban

Insect Overlord

I have been banned for 3 weeks from the Limerick forum. Clareman, to be fair, had clearly stated in the OP that he would be implementing a zero-tolerance policy with regards to the discussion of Covid-19 in the new thread. I believe the warning said that bans would be for a minimum of two weeks for breaches.

Several posters explained that they would not be posting again in the thread and wished other readers a merry Christmas. I did likewise. I did not repeat any of the infractions that were highlighted as issues in recent threads. I received a PM a few minutes later saying that I had been banned.

I have been in PM contact with Clareman and he feels he has to be consistent and ban me because he had also banned another poster a few minutes earlier. I don't know what that poster was banned for, but I don't feel my contribution was worthy of any such punishment. Clareman clearly and politely explained his decision, but I disagree with it and would appreciate a second opinion.

I can see from browsing the forum as a guest that my post was the only one snipped and highlighted as "Banned" from the series of posts I mention in my second paragraph above. I feel the zero tolerance approach to my post has not been consistently applied to others (not that they should be reprimanded either, of course).

Insect Overlord

This is the warning from the OP in the Limerick Covid 19 thread.

As there has been 2 previous attempts to start a thread that descended into blaming or rules not being followed or mods being questioned on thread this is a new thread to just discuss Covid in Limerick.

Any breaking of the rules or any attempts to bring up stuff that the previous 2 threads will lead to bans, not warnings or thread bans or anything else, bans for at least 2 weeks, if you think this isn't fair that's your opinion but we tried leaving the other 2 threads open and that was a nightmare both times so take this as notice of a Zero Tolerance approach to moderating.

I don't believe I have broken any of the rules here.

The line "any attempts to bring up stuff that the previous 2 threads will lead to bans" is confusing and ambiguous. It looks like there are words missing from it. I don't think it's fair to issue a three week ban based on such an unclear instruction.

Beasty

I'm currently dealing with another Region Dispute. We seem to be down on resources at CMod level at present. As I am sure you are aware I'm also trying to deal with a few more issues across the site. If a Region CMod gets to this then great, but if not I'll have a look when I get a chance. If dissatisfied with my decision you will have the opportunity of getting another Admin to review

Mickeroo

Only the OP, Cmods and Admins are permitted to post in this thread. Anymore uninvited contributions will get banned from the DRP forum.

Insect Overlord

Beasty wrote: »

I'm currently dealing with another Region Dispute. We seem to be down on resources at CMod level at present. As I am sure you are aware I'm also trying to deal with a few more issues across the site. If a Region CMod gets to this then great, but if not I'll have a look when I get a chance. If dissatisfied with my decision you will have the opportunity of getting another Admin to review

That's grand, thanks for letting me know. I'll give you more info whenever you need it.

Beasty

Apologies for the delay.

Just looking at the relevant posts

Clareman posted this warning

Clareman wrote: »

Right,

Lets try this the third time, as RivetRoger said in the previous thread this is a massive issues in Limerick so there needs to be a place to discuss it.

As there has been 2 previous attempts to start a thread that descended into blaming or rules not being followed or mods being questioned on thread this is a new thread to just discuss Covid in Limerick.

Any breaking of the rules or any attempts to bring up stuff that the previous 2 threads will lead to bans, not warnings or thread bans or anything else, bans for at least 2 weeks, if you think this isn't fair that's your opinion but we tried leaving the other 2 threads open and that was a nightmare both times so take this as notice of a Zero Tolerance approach to moderating.

A few minutes later you posted this in the thread:

I've outlined my concerns in the Help Desk thread. No point trying to discuss the topic here. The dedicated Coronavirus forum is over-run with trolls and lunatics so I won't be posting there any time soon either. Merry Christmas everyone.

In posting that you were commenting on the HD thread as well as another forum, the Coronavirus one. I appreciate it was in the context of explaining why you were bowing out of the thread. However in making those comments in that particular way you were commenting on moderation

Your first words in the HD thread were

The entire approach to the moderation of that thread was awful from the beginning.

Your comment in the Limerick thread was essentially drawing attention to that thread and specifically your comments in it. You were entitled to make those comments in the HD thread, but drawing attention to them in the Limerick thread was essentially commenting on moderation within that Limerick thread

In light of this I am entirely seeing where the mod was coming from in applying a ban. The mod indicated a minimum 2 week ban would be applied, although in this case it was a 3 week ban. I'm not going to comment on sanctions applied to other users, but I do think that a 2 week ban would have been more appropriate in your case. However I am upholding the principle that a ban, in line with the mod warning, was appropriate, given what appears to have been extensive problems with prior discussions.

Hence my decision is that the ban should be reduced to 2 weeks

Just to add, I appreciate that thread in Help Desk has to be dealt with. That remains WIP, and is not for further commentary here. It will be addressed, but my decision here is related to your own post in a thread which in my view directly contravened the mod warning

Before asking if you would like a further review, I would invite you to make any further comments, should you wish, on what I have said

Insect Overlord

Beasty wrote: »

Before asking if you would like a further review, I would invite you to make any further comments, should you wish, on what I have said

I've been here for a long time now, and seen troublesome time-sink posters banned from Feedback and Help Desk for rules lawyering. I can honestly say I didn't expect an Admin to engage in the same kind of approach. Especially when I'm sure I've seen you argue in favour of the "spirit" of the rules in the past.

Beasty wrote: »

Just to add, I appreciate that thread in Help Desk has to be dealt with. That remains WIP, and is not for further commentary here. It will be addressed, but my decision here is related to your own post in a thread which in my view directly contravened the mod warning

I tried to raise this issue some months back in the Admin Clinic so I'll bump that thread again. I feel this "not for further commentary here" line severely restricts what I can post in this thread.

Beasty wrote: »

I'm not going to comment on sanctions applied to other users, but I do think that a 2 week ban would have been more appropriate in your case.

The fact that two other posters bowed out with "Happy Christmas" before me, yet I was immediately sanctioned, stings quite a bit. Your decision on this particular ban seems to rest on the fact that there was a Mod warning at the start of it, but it's clear that the mods involved have not applied the "zero tolerance" policy evenly across the board. The thread was previously locked because of references to visitors to Rathkeale in County Limerick. I never engaged in that particular part of the discussion myself, but others have continued it this week and not been banned.* The inconsistency is bewildering.

*Nor should they be banned. It's an important element of the whole debate. Alas, it is the issue that two of the mods seem to be most concerned about, and yet they haven't been implementing their own rules since the Help Desk thread started to get more attention.

Beasty

I am referring to a specific mod instruction, which, in my view, you chose to ignore by making specific reference to your comments in Help Desk

If you had simply said you were not going to post again I would not see an issue. However in my view that comment about the Help Desk thread wqs a dig at moderation

I'm standing by my decision, but you can of course ask for another Admin to review this should you wish

Insect Overlord

Beasty wrote: »

I am referring to a specific mod instruction, which, in my view, you chose to ignore by making specific reference to your comments in Help Desk

If you had simply said you were not going to post again I would not see an issue.

I dealt with this in a previous post in this thread.

Insect Overlord wrote: »

This is the warning from the OP in the Limerick Covid 19 thread.

As there has been 2 previous attempts to start a thread that descended into blaming or rules not being followed or mods being questioned on thread this is a new thread to just discuss Covid in Limerick.

Any breaking of the rules or any attempts to bring up stuff that the previous 2 threads will lead to bans, not warnings or thread bans or anything else, bans for at least 2 weeks, if you think this isn't fair that's your opinion but we tried leaving the other 2 threads open and that was a nightmare both times so take this as notice of a Zero Tolerance approach to moderating.

I don't believe I have broken any of the rules here.

The line "any attempts to bring up stuff that the previous 2 threads will lead to bans" is confusing and ambiguous. It looks like there are words missing from it. I don't think it's fair to issue a three week ban based on such an unclear instruction.

The warning was full of typos. It's not a clear instruction. I know that gives the mods and admins a bit of leeway to implement it as they see fit, but it doesn't give regular users a fair chance to interpret what's expected of them. A three week ban (or even the fortnight long ban you think would have been more appropriate) therefore both seem extremely excessive.

Most of user-base of the forum was well aware of the Help Desk thread before my post. The forum mods might not appreciate the tone of the feedback they got in that thread, but I should not be punished in the Limerick forum for what I posted in Help Desk.

Beasty

Do you want another Admin to review this?

Insect Overlord

Beasty wrote: »

Do you want another Admin to review this?

If you're done and refusing to take into account what I've posted, then yes please, another Admin's consideration would be fantastic.

Ye might want to go looking for some Region Cat Mods as well while ye're chatting.

Beasty

Thanks

I've dropped a note in the Admin forum

Mickeroo

Sorry for the delay in getting to this.

On the face of it I think the ban is justified as you were getting in a veiled dig at moderation by referencing help desk and the warning outlines there will be no tolerance with a minimum of two week bans.

I don't think there was any need to ban for more than the two weeks though so I will lift the ban now regardless since the two weeks is more or less up.