Ireland u20 6 nations and world championship 2021

UAEguy2020

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

Size of course matters at pro level.

Kendellan looks maxed out physically, I don't think he will be putting on much more weight.

We’ll find out.

starkid

yeah i think we're starting to suffer from not producing big enough men. for some reason Irish rugby thought it could do it differently. we're hitting a wall in that regard and need bigger blokes to start coming through imo. Kendellan probably fills out a little more. If he can get to 108kg its grand.

Lsdrugbyfan

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Have you calculated the combined weight of both packs? I have and the difference was Wales by 12 kg, and that was with Morrissey in the row, if he’s taken out for Murray rather than Sheridan than that’s and extra 13 kg which means the packs Wright is basically the same.

your going by listed weights which irish rugby have historically inflated.

a simple eye test makes it quite obvious that the welsh pack is bigger.

scrum and maul could be ugly for ireland.

errlloyd

Me trying to calculate pack weights using a simple eye test.

OneLungDavy

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

your going by listed weights which irish rugby have historically inflated.

a simple eye test makes it quite obvious that the welsh pack is bigger.

scrum and maul could be ugly for ireland.

Where's the evidence that the IRFU have inflated weights?

Lsdrugbyfan

OneLungDavy wrote: »

Where's the evidence that the IRFU have inflated weights?

it's happened on several occasions, Liam Turner being the most obvious case of stat inflation when he was playing the 20's.

this season neither Darragh Murray(115kg) or Harry Sheridan(111kg) look accurate to me.

realhorrorshow

Everyone is far too obsessed with kgs, what actually matters is the ability to win collisions. Addie Savea is listed as 95kg but was one of the most effective carriers in the world in 2019. James Ryan is around 15 kg lighter than Devin Toner but far more effective in contact. Ronan Kelleher is pretty average sized for a hooker but is extremely explosive in the contact area. Etc etc.

UAEguy2020

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

your going by listed weights which irish rugby have historically inflated.

a simple eye test makes it quite obvious that the welsh pack is bigger.

scrum and maul could be ugly for ireland.

So you take the Welsh weight at face value but not the Irish weight…sound very impartial.

UAEguy2020

starkid wrote: »

yeah i think we're starting to suffer from not producing big enough men. for some reason Irish rugby thought it could do it differently. we're hitting a wall in that regard and need bigger blokes to start coming through imo. Kendellan probably fills out a little more. If he can get to 108kg its grand.

We are suffering for being soft, still don’t get how that’s lost on people.

UAEguy2020

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

it's happened on several occasions, Liam Turner being the most obvious case of stat inflation when he was playing the 20's.

this season neither Darragh Murray(115kg) or Harry Sheridan(111kg) look accurate to me.

Have you weighed them? If not you aren’t in a position to judge. Just because the Welsh look like fat f&cks and the Irish dont doesn’t necessarily mean the Welsh are heavier.

Lsdrugbyfan

Yeah this guy just looks heavier than the irish locks in reality he isn't :rolleyes:

UAEguy2020

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

Yeah this guy just looks heavier than the irish locks in reality he isn't :rolleyes:

His belly is more noticeable than his chest…wonder which pair of locks will be blowing after 30 minutes…

The 2nd guy is a tank that doesn’t mean the rest of the pack is.

Lsdrugbyfan

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

His belly is more noticeable than his chest…wonder which pair of locks will be blowing after 30 minutes…

changing the argument now.. :pac:

UAEguy2020

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

changing the argument now.. :pac:

Nope, you think because the Welsh guys overweight and the Irish doesn’t that it automatically means the Irish guy is lighter, you can’t use the Welsh stats and then disregard the Irish ones just because it doesn’t suit your argument and expect to look credible.

Dubinusa

If our pack is smaller it will be interesting to see how we navigate the Welsh pack. I would hope that our fitness level is better. I am more concerned with the back play. I thought they were poor until the Scots went down to 14.
Anyway, Murphy has his hands full. Both Wales and England look like good sides.

FrannoFan

Listed stats are usually useless from irfu. Can't comment on the welsh.

Welsh lads usually in academy structure a bit younger and generally are more physically developed at 20's than the irish lads but it doesn't necessarily translate into results or on their ability to transition into good pros.

Both the french and English packs have been way lager than ours the last few years but we've gotten the better of then I'm not concerned

UAEguy2020

Those who make a big deal about the weight of a pack or player the same individuals who over think every little thing in rugby. Like in most cases the most important part of being a good rugby player / having a good pack is technique, that’s why despite the pack size Ireland were a match and even at times beat England at scrum time in the last 2 u20 campaigns. Even last week people thought Ireland would struggle based on the weight of the second row yet we appeared to have the upper hand and in the end we were driving them off their own ball.

starkid

the irish locks are clearly lighter. one of the reasons JAmes Ryan isn't on the Lions. For whatever reason Irish rugby went down the NZ route of aerobic lighter bodies. and imo its not working anymore. the clear evidence was in Japan when lots of them were kgs lighter. Aki and BEst noticeably so.

I would argue if a Victor Costelloe or TOny Buckley, Damien Browne, Casey etc came along now people wouldn't pick them. Its too obvious they would say and either try to get them to lsoe a few kgs or just select somebody else. There's a balance to be had.

there's not a hope Murray is 115kg. At this moment in time he's far too slight to make it. Like his brother i would argue.

theVersatile

starkid wrote: »

the irish locks are clearly lighter. one of the reasons JAmes Ryan isn't on the Lions.

James Ryan - 2.03m (6'8) - 116kg (18st, 3lb), per IrishRugby.ie and LeinsterRugby.ie (115.91kg to be exact)

LIONS LOCKS PER LIONSRUGBY.COM
Iain Henderson - 1.95m - 112kg

Johnny Hill - 1.96m, 111kg

Tadhg Beirne - 1.98m, 113kg

Courtney Lawes - 2.01m, 113kg

Maro Itoje - 1.97m, 110kg

Alun Wyn Jones - 1.98m, 122kg

Heavier than all but AWJ (read: tour captain) and Lawes (who may be seen as a six), while taller than all.

Garfin

theVersatile wrote: »

James Ryan - 2.03m (6'8) - 116kg (18st, 3lb), per IrishRugby.ie and LeinsterRugby.ie (115.91kg to be exact)

LIONS LOCKS PER LIONSRUGBY.COM
Iain Henderson - 1.95m - 112kg

Johnny Hill - 1.96m, 111kg

Tadhg Beirne - 1.98m, 113kg

Courtney Lawes - 2.01m, 113kg

Maro Itoje - 1.97m, 110kg

Alun Wyn Jones - 1.98m, 122kg

Heavier than all but AWJ (read: tour captain) and Lawes (who may be seen as a six), while taller than all.

Itoje 12 Kg lighter than AWJ? I dont see it.
The game has become all about power athletes, weight is just one component of that equation, obviously in the tight quarters, scrum and lineout size still helps.
With high ball in play time and the pace of the modern game its repetitions over 60-80 minutes thats important and that mitigates against really heavy guys unless they are really exceptional players.

Squidgy Black

Garfin wrote: »

Itoje 12 Kg lighter than AWJ? I dont see it.
The game has become all about power athletes, weight is just one component of that equation, obviously in the tight quarters, scrum and lineout size still helps.
With high ball in play time and the pace of the modern game its repetitions over 60-80 minutes thats important and that mitigates against really heavy guys unless they are really exceptional players.

Wouldn't surprise me at all, AWJ is taller and he's a bit of a lump. Itoje is pretty lean.

Lsdrugbyfan

15. Jamie Osborne (Naas CBS/Naas RFC/Leinster)
14. Ben Moxham (Larne High School/Ballymena RFC/Ulster)
13. Shane Jennings (Garbally College/Buccaneers RFC/Connacht)
12. Cathal Forde (Colaiste Iognaid/Corinthians RFC/Connacht)
11. Chris Cosgrave (St Michael’s College/UCD RFC/Leinster)
10. Tim Corkery (St Kieran’s College, Kilkenny/UCD RFC/Leinster)
9. Nathan Doak (Wallace High School/Banbridge RFC/Ulster)

1. Jack Boyle (St Michael’s College/UCD RFC/Leinster)
2. Ronan Loughnane (Cistercian College Roscrea/UCD RFC/Leinster)
3. Mark Donnelly (CBC Cork/Garryowen RFC/Munster)
4. Alex Soroka (Belvedere College/Clontarf RFC/Leinster)
5. Harry Sheridan (Sullivan Upper School/Dublin University FC/Ulster)
6. Donnacha Byrne (Summerhill College/Sligo RFC/Connacht)
7. Oisin McCormack (Garbally College/Buccaneers RFC/Connacht)
8. Alex Kendellen (PBC Cork/UCC RFC/Munster)(Captain).

Replacements:

16. Eoin de Buitléar (Scoil Chuimsitheach Chiáran/An Ghaeltacht/Corinthians RFC/Connacht)
17. George Saunderson (Sullivan Upper School/Queen’s University Belfast RFC/Ulster)
18. Sam Illo (Wesley College/Old Wesley RFC/Leinster)
19. Mark Morrissey (Blackrock College/UCD RFC/Leinster)
20. Reuben Crothers (Wallace High School/Ballynahinch RFC/Ulster)
21. Conor McKee (Sullivan Upper School/Queen’s University Belfast RFC/Ulster)
22. Ben Carson (Wallace High School/Banbridge RFC/Ulster)
23. Jude Postlethwaite (RBAI/Banbridge RFC/Ulster)
24. Fearghail O’Donoghue (Cashel Community School/Cashel RFC/Munster)
25. Daniel Okeke (Ard Scoil Ris/Shannon RFC/Munster)
26. Conor Rankin (Campbell College Belfast/Ballynahinch RFC/Ulster).

Garfin

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

15. Jamie Osborne (Naas CBS/Naas RFC/Leinster)
14. Ben Moxham (Larne High School/Ballymena RFC/Ulster)
13. Shane Jennings (Garbally College/Buccaneers RFC/Connacht)
12. Cathal Forde (Colaiste Iognaid/Corinthians RFC/Connacht)
11. Chris Cosgrave (St Michael’s College/UCD RFC/Leinster)
10. Tim Corkery (St Kieran’s College, Kilkenny/UCD RFC/Leinster)
9. Nathan Doak (Wallace High School/Banbridge RFC/Ulster)

1. Jack Boyle (St Michael’s College/UCD RFC/Leinster)
2. Ronan Loughnane (Cistercian College Roscrea/UCD RFC/Leinster)
3. Mark Donnelly (CBC Cork/Garryowen RFC/Munster)
4. Alex Soroka (Belvedere College/Clontarf RFC/Leinster)
5. Harry Sheridan (Sullivan Upper School/Dublin University FC/Ulster)
6. Donnacha Byrne (Summerhill College/Sligo RFC/Connacht)
7. Oisin McCormack (Garbally College/Buccaneers RFC/Connacht)
8. Alex Kendellen (PBC Cork/UCC RFC/Munster)(Captain).

Replacements:

16. Eoin de Buitléar (Scoil Chuimsitheach Chiáran/An Ghaeltacht/Corinthians RFC/Connacht)
17. George Saunderson (Sullivan Upper School/Queen’s University Belfast RFC/Ulster)
18. Sam Illo (Wesley College/Old Wesley RFC/Leinster)
19. Mark Morrissey (Blackrock College/UCD RFC/Leinster)
20. Reuben Crothers (Wallace High School/Ballynahinch RFC/Ulster)
21. Conor McKee (Sullivan Upper School/Queen’s University Belfast RFC/Ulster)
22. Ben Carson (Wallace High School/Banbridge RFC/Ulster)
23. Jude Postlethwaite (RBAI/Banbridge RFC/Ulster)
24. Fearghail O’Donoghue (Cashel Community School/Cashel RFC/Munster)
25. Daniel Okeke (Ard Scoil Ris/Shannon RFC/Munster)
26. Conor Rankin (Campbell College Belfast/Ballynahinch RFC/Ulster).

Thats a mobile ball playing pack, great to see 4 Connacht lads starting, come on Ireland!

OneLungDavy

starkid wrote: »

the irish locks are clearly lighter. one of the reasons JAmes Ryan isn't on the Lions.

This is just the laziest conclusion I keep seeing by people, even the slightest bit of research would debunk this.

starkid

OneLungDavy wrote: »

This is just the laziest conclusion I keep seeing by people, even the slightest bit of research would debunk this.

the perception of it is clearly thus. clearly is he was deemed to have got bullied in a few matches. if you don;t think this is the reason why he wasn't selected, then what was? didn't even Gatland mention it...i mean is his conclusion also lazy? "We saw an example last weekend with Leinster against La Rochelle and if you look at the match properly, La Rochelle reminded me of what we’re going to face in South Africa. We’re going to face big, physical men. They’d Will Skelton, how direct they were coming off No 9." Gatland 2021.

I'm not saying this myself. statistically rucking wise, and tackles he was his usual self. He's not as good a carrier though.

he's added some bulk if you look at the IRish training photos i think. up to date stats showing over 18 stone now. Irish locks are a bit lighter. As are alot of the players. we've clearly chosen the aerobic route. i think we're starting to see the effects that has on beating certain teams. Luckily international rugby is hugely demanding fitness wise so even the best out and out rugby team in the World focus on leaner athletes.

OneLungDavy

starkid wrote: »

the perception of it is clearly thus. clearly is he was deemed to have got bullied in a few matches. if you don;t think this is the reason why he wasn't selected, then what was? didn't even Gatland mention it...i mean is his conclusion also lazy? "We saw an example last weekend with Leinster against La Rochelle and if you look at the match properly, La Rochelle reminded me of what we’re going to face in South Africa. We’re going to face big, physical men. They’d Will Skelton, how direct they were coming off No 9." Gatland 2021.

I'm not saying this myself. statistically rucking wise, and tackles he was his usual self. He's not as good a carrier though.

he's added some bulk if you look at the IRish training photos i think. up to date stats showing over 18 stone now. Irish locks are a bit lighter. As are alot of the players. we've clearly chosen the aerobic route. i think we're starting to see the effects that has on beating certain teams. Luckily international rugby is hugely demanding fitness wise so even the best out and out rugby team in the World focus on leaner athletes.

Fair enough, I get what your saying. I think a bigger reason for Ryan missing out was due to him missing the 6 Nations, he didn't really get a chance to showcase himself until La Rochelle, when his fellow pack got destroyed. The size thing doesn't add up for Ryan, he's not even remotely a small lock.

Anyways, I think this conversation is for another thread.

starkid

yeah true.

I hope to see Okeke get a run out.

OneLungDavy

starkid wrote: »

yeah true.

I hope to see Okeke get a run out.

Yeah he didn't come on against Scotland? I was surprised by that.

Lsdrugbyfan

OneLungDavy wrote: »

Yeah he didn't come on against Scotland? I was surprised by that.

Why? He is very raw as a rugby player.. all the other backrows who have played ahead of him are higher rated than him.

starkid

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

Why? He is very raw as a rugby player.. all the other backrows who have played ahead of him are higher rated than him.

no he's not. what a lazy statement. i was sort of waiting for it.

did you get a list of all the "rated" lads. seeing there's what only 4 Munster lads in the squad, if he's rated lowly Munster are in trouble. He;s highly rated, played all the way through and played Munster A.

Clearly Kendellan's one of the best players of his generation. Another Ryan, Leavy etc. so 8 is tied up

Okeke's very good and highly rated in Shannon. Probably will get academy as well. a very good carrier. Like alot of 8's his game is based on carrying. There's not many 8's who can do it all. Kendellan in fact seems one of those guys. Jackler, tackler, offloader, carrier.

its weird the way people bring this up about Okeke. he doesn't work hard enough is one of the tropes i usually see on here.

the harsh truth of it is any lad getting through to Munster A at 19 is far more impressive than the Connacht equivalent. THe MUnster lads have a higher ceiling to reach. Byrne looks relatively average. Soroka again is a clear generational talent.

I'd hope to see him get a run out at some stage. Only in IReland can we sort of be in denial about the athletic ability some of the lads have brought. Illo was the same. People somehow shocked at his raw strength. Its just weird its taken Irish rugby so long to catch up even compared to other Irish sports.

UAEguy2020

OneLungDavy wrote: »

Yeah he didn't come on against Scotland? I was surprised by that.

He’s carrying a knock apparently, that’s why they weren’t putting him on unless they absolutely needed him. Supposedly he’ll be available at some point during the week.

OneLungDavy

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

Why? He is very raw as a rugby player.. all the other backrows who have played ahead of him are higher rated than him.

The bonus point was in the bag so I thought they'd at least give him a few minutes. As UAE alluded to, he may have been carrying a knock.

Lsdrugbyfan

starkid wrote: »

no he's not. what a lazy statement. i was sort of waiting for it.

did you get a list of all the "rated" lads. seeing there's what only 4 Munster lads in the squad, if he's rated lowly Munster are in trouble. He;s highly rated, played all the way through and played Munster A.

Clearly Kendellan's one of the best players of his generation. Another Ryan, Leavy etc. so 8 is tied up

Okeke's very good and highly rated in Shannon. Probably will get academy as well. a very good carrier. Like alot of 8's his game is based on carrying. There's not many 8's who can do it all. Kendellan in fact seems one of those guys. Jackler, tackler, offloader, carrier.

its weird the way people bring this up about Okeke. he doesn't work hard enough is one of the tropes i usually see on here.

the harsh truth of it is any lad getting through to Munster A at 19 is far more impressive than the Connacht equivalent. THe MUnster lads have a higher ceiling to reach. Byrne looks relatively average. Soroka again is a clear generational talent.

I'd hope to see him get a run out at some stage. Only in IReland can we sort of be in denial about the athletic ability some of the lads have brought. Illo was the same. People somehow shocked at his raw strength. Its just weird its taken Irish rugby so long to catch up even compared to other Irish sports.

Who said he wasn't athletic?

He is very raw in certain aspects of being a pro level rugby player, carrying the ball is not one of them.

If he was so highly rated he'd have been in the irish u20 squad last year, but he didn't make it and he'd have gotten a munster academy contract after one year in the sub academy instead of having to doing two.

It's very odd that the coaches are selecting Byrne ahead of Okeke if Byrne is so average.

He is a talented player but has a lot to improve to make is as a professional.

starkid

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

Who said he wasn't athletic?

He is very raw in certain aspects of being a pro level rugby player, carrying the ball is not one of them.

If he was so highly rated he'd have been in the irish u20 squad last year, but he didn't make it and he'd have gotten a munster academy contract after one year in the sub academy instead of having to doing two.

It's very odd that the coaches are selecting Byrne ahead of Okeke if Byrne is so average.

He is a talented player but has a lot to improve to make is as a professional.

he's not raw though. saying he is means nothing. all of the players are raw in that same sense. budding pro players some not going to make it.

He's a fearless carrier and in a country that doesn't produce carriers at a huge rate, whats the issue. Calling him raw is just lazy. i've seen that before on here.

BYrne is fairly average imo. Its harder to get into Munster A than it is Conancht Eagles. Personally i'm unsure as why so many COnnacht lads are getting a look in these days. A bit like the youth players is it a sort of redressing of balances. I mean its not a bad thing, and i'd be worried if i was a Munster fan tbh. but Munster have arguably better coaches, better setup so you'd imagine that LEinster, Musnter and Ulster players should be dominating the squads. The only stand out talent imo looks like Jennings.

Lsdrugbyfan

starkid wrote: »

he's not raw though. saying he is means nothing. all of the players are raw in that same sense. budding pro players some not going to make it.

He's a fearless carrier and in a country that doesn't produce carriers at a huge rate, whats the issue. Calling him raw is just lazy. i've seen that before on here.

BYrne is fairly average imo. Its harder to get into Munster A than it is Conancht Eagles. Personally i'm unsure as why so many COnnacht lads are getting a look in these days. A bit like the youth players is it a sort of redressing of balances. i'd be worried if i was a Munster fan tbh. but they have better coaches, better setup so you'd imagine that LEinster, Musnter and Ulster players should be dominating the squads. The only stand out talent imo looks like Jennings.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

starkid

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

don't worry i had the exact same reaction when you called Okeke "raw".

Lsdrugbyfan

starkid wrote: »

don't worry i had the exact same reaction when you called Okeke "raw".

you failed to address these facts:

If he was so highly rated he'd have been in the irish u20 squad last year, but he didn't make the squad and he'd have gotten a munster academy contract after one year in the sub academy instead of having to do two seasons in the sub academy.

when/if he gets on the field for ireland we shall see how he goes..

starkid

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

you failed to address these facts:

If he was so highly rated he'd have been in the irish u20 squad last year, but he didn't make the squad and he'd have gotten a munster academy contract after one year in the sub academy instead of having to do two seasons in the sub academy.

when/if he gets on the field for ireland we shall see how he goes..

i don't put any stock into any of that having seen so many lads passed over and so many guys not up to it selected instead.

Illo is another example of not being selected. And he was excellent last week as any person up in Wesley RFc could have told you. We have really strange mentality at times with selection and the way we get players into the system. That was my main point with the youths its great to see. But like how many good players from schools are being passed over? all to fall into the same abyss of perception. i mean in your words, its 20s or bust basically. personally having played with players like Dunlop, Lewis, Norton, Hugh Hogan, Grissing, Nash, Oliver and a few others people wouldn't know about or have forgotten i don't buy into it. we're way too small for this mentality. frankly i always find some guys getting the deals aren't good enough. others there's no disputes.

ClanofLams

starkid wrote: »

he's not raw though. saying he is means nothing. all of the players are raw in that same sense. budding pro players some not going to make it.

He's a fearless carrier and in a country that doesn't produce carriers at a huge rate, whats the issue. Calling him raw is just lazy. i've seen that before on here.

BYrne is fairly average imo. Its harder to get into Munster A than it is Conancht Eagles. Personally i'm unsure as why so many COnnacht lads are getting a look in these days. A bit like the youth players is it a sort of redressing of balances. I mean its not a bad thing, and i'd be worried if i was a Munster fan tbh. but Munster have arguably better coaches, better setup so you'd imagine that LEinster, Musnter and Ulster players should be dominating the squads. The only stand out talent imo looks like Jennings.

Jesus you talk some nonsense. McCormack, Forde and Jennings all had excellent games last week. Eric Elwood is head of the Connacht Academy, he has more experience than any other coach in any other academy in the country before him. Nigel Carolan was head of the academy before, widely regarded as one of the best young coaches in the country.

starkid

ClanofLams wrote: »

Jesus you talk some nonsense. McCormack, Forde and Jennings all had excellent games last week. Eric Elwood is head of the Connacht Academy, he has more experience than any other coach in any other academy in the country before him. Nigel Carolan was head of the academy before, widely regarded as one of the best young coaches in the country.

its just as nonsensical to randomly say Okeke is raw, when nothing points to that fact. but thanks for the input.

I'm just surprised COnnacht and youths rugby has so much representation. its not a bad thing. However, part of me wonders is it a true reflection of the quality coming through. personally i don't think it is.

They all look like excellent players.

ClanofLams

starkid wrote: »

its just as nonsensical to randomly say Okeke is raw, when nothing points to that fact. but thanks for the input.

I'm just surprised COnnacht and youths rugby has so much representation. its not a bad thing. However, part of me wonders is it a true reflection of the quality coming through.

They all look like excellent players.

I don't know anything about Okeke but it's not a great rebuttal to say well someone else said something nonsensical. Connacht have more representation than normal because they have a strong age group, reflected in their winning the u-18s club interpros two years ago when they beat the other three provinces.

Coaches are being judged here too, being successful will obviously enhance their career opportunities. Obviously they won't get every decision correct and they may overlook/misjudge someone but they have put far more time into it and have far more knowledge than anyone on here.

Lsdrugbyfan

starkid wrote: »

its just as nonsensical to randomly say Okeke is raw, when nothing points to that fact. but thanks for the input.

I'm just surprised COnnacht and youths rugby has so much representation. its not a bad thing. However, part of me wonders is it a true reflection of the quality coming through. personally i don't think it is.

They all look like excellent players.

it's not random, it's an opinion. Okeke is raw in certain areas and we will see that on the field when/if he plays.

and of course if he doesn't play much it's because the coaches are biased or clueless.

Lsdrugbyfan

all the connacht players in this squad would walk into the munster academy.

theVersatile

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

all the connacht players in this squad would walk into the munster academy.

A debatable point, mind I may be treating this with slightly too much thought.

Jennings depends on his long term position - if he's a centre then you'd have to concede that he'd be in given the lack of centres coming through Munster - but if he's a wing there's no chance given the number of back three players already contracted. Not really logistically feasible.

Same with Forde, if he's a twelve then possibly. If he's a ten, then it's a waste of time with Healy, Crowley, Flannery all ahead of him.

Murray would have Eoin O'Connor and Pa Kelly to compete with, along with the recently promoted Tom Aherne.

McCormick is in direct competition with Hodnett as a pure 7. Byrne with Kendellan.

And this must be the greatest hooker class that's ever graced Irish rugby if the fourth choice hooker would "walk" into the Munster provincial academy.

Not to say none of these lads would usurp their counterparts, but saying all of them would walk into a pro-contract is silly talk. This is without delving into whoever the next big sub-academy and schools players are - for all I know there could be a 6'8 118kg monster second row out of Munchin's who's about to take the scene by storm, or a 6'3 DDA-style centre from West Cork.

As a side note, I've seen it mentioned that they won the U18 interpros on their age, how did that same side do at U19?
________________________________________

On Okeke, he had plenty of work-ons when he was last in the public eye, and comments calling him "raw" were totally justified. However, given the large gap with the lack of rugby, maybe he's become a more complete player since we've last seen him. Time and performances will tell.

Digifriendly

Wales vs Ireland live on S4C and 6 nations U20 Youtube channel.

UAEguy2020

Looking at the odds (not sure how much they mean at u20 level) Ireland seem to be priced as pretty strong favorites for this game.

Dubinusa

Several changes! Murray still injured? I suppose rotation is important with a 6 day turnaround. Hopefully, the lads put it on the Welch!

Neil3030

Thought the scrum looked very strong against Scotland. Is he just giving everyone a game, or is Lasisi injured?

Lsdrugbyfan

theVersatile wrote: »

A debatable point, mind I may be treating this with slightly too much thought.

Jennings depends on his long term position - if he's a centre then you'd have to concede that he'd be in given the lack of centres coming through Munster - but if he's a wing there's no chance given the number of back three players already contracted. Not really logistically feasible.

Same with Forde, if he's a twelve then possibly. If he's a ten, then it's a waste of time with Healy, Crowley, Flannery all ahead of him.

Murray would have Eoin O'Connor and Pa Kelly to compete with, along with the recently promoted Tom Aherne.

McCormick is in direct competition with Hodnett as a pure 7. Byrne with Kendellan.

And this must be the greatest hooker class that's ever graced Irish rugby if the fourth choice hooker would "walk" into the Munster provincial academy.

Not to say none of these lads would usurp their counterparts, but saying all of them would walk into a pro-contract is silly talk. This is without delving into whoever the next big sub-academy and schools players are - for all I know there could be a 6'8 118kg monster second row out of Munchin's who's about to take the scene by storm, or a 6'3 DDA-style centre from West Cork.

As a side note, I've seen it mentioned that they won the U18 interpros on their age, how did that same side do at U19?
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On Okeke, he had plenty of work-ons when he was last in the public eye, and comments calling him "raw" were totally justified. However, given the large gap with the lack of rugby, maybe he's become a more complete player since we've last seen him. Time and performances will tell.

Forde as a 12 gets into the munster academy quite easily. Same goes for Jennings as a 13/wing.

Eoin O'Connor hasn't played rugby in 18 months and Pa Kelly is not that highly rated, Darragh Murray would immediately be the best lock propect in the Munster academy.

Munster are actively looking for backrows to join their academy, with Jack Kelleher and Okeke probably getting into the academy.. i'd take McCormack and Byrne over those two.

Munster are desperate for quality young hookers, while de Buitléar isn't a huge prospect he is better than anything munster have available to them at the moment.

There isn't a 6'8 monster lock or a DDA style centre coming through the munster system unfortunately.

Connacht came 2nd in the u19 interpros, losing out narrowly to leinster.

For the record most of them would get into the leinster/ulster academy too.