Ireland u20 6 nations and world championship 2021

Paul Smeenus

Akrasia wrote: »

France are looking unbelievably sharp, making the english look like a 2nd tier team so far

This France team look something else

Lost Ormond

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

Martin and Kelly would've been great options to have but no use moaning about what isn't there. Still think other combos are worth trying.

Oh certainly. Karl Martin and Kelly especially would have been excellent but i was more referring to those who're in Cardiff...

Most likely will be many combos tried over the 4 remaining games

Akrasia

This french 11 is going to be a superstar!

UAEguy2020

Good thing we dont have France until towards the end so we have a chance to get our **** together as I feel we were very rusty today, think we could have put 50/60 points on Scotland if more passes stuck. We definitely look as if we have to potential to rip teams to pieces but it took us along time to get going today.

Clegg

In general I've been very impressed by the level of coaching the Irish U20's have had since the 2016 World Championships. That Carolan coached side were a joy to watch and played running, offloading rugby that not many Irish sides at any level have employed. That side has now seen 5 of its players capped at test level.

The was a bit of s blip after that for the 2018 side, but since then we've seen a lot of very impressive underage sides. The McNamara coached teams weren't as free flowing, but they were very well drilled from 1-8 with a solid set piece. He also let the halfbacks dictate the play when they saw opportunities to attack. The 2019 side won the Grand Slam and I'm sure the 2020 side were on the way to doing the same but for the tournament's cancellation. They had already beaten England and France.

The new team maybe doesn't quite have the superstars of the 2016 iteration but they still look well drilled up front. Maybe they're not as cohesive in the backs, but they've barely had the chance to train together.

UAEguy2020

Clegg wrote: »

In general I've been very impressed by the level of coaching the Irish U20's have had since the 2016 World Championships. That Carolan coached side were a joy to watch and played running, offloading rugby that not many Irish sides at any level have employed. That side has now seen 5 of its players capped at test level.

The was a bit of s blip after that for the 2018 side, but since then we've seen a lot of very impressive underage sides. The McNamara coached teams weren't as free flowing, but they were very well drilled from 1-8 with a solid set piece. He also let the halfbacks dictate the play when they saw opportunities to attack. The 2019 side won the Grand Slam and I'm sure the 2020 side were on the way to doing the same but for the tournament's cancellation. They had already beaten England and France.

The new team maybe doesn't quite have the superstars of the 2016 iteration but they still look well drilled up front. Maybe they're not as cohesive in the backs, but they've barely had the chance to train together.

I don’t know if I agree with that in regards to comparing the 2016 and 2021 group, it’s easy looking back now but if you look at the 2021 group the likes of Osborne,Soroka,Kendellen, + players like Doak,Stewart,McCarthy etc I would say it’s potentially up there with 2016, the only way we’ll know for sure is in afew years time.

Akrasia

nonsense decision from Ben Whitehouse!

theVersatile

Had the right on field decision and all...

Akrasia

The referee clearly thought a ruck had formed, if any french player had come in from the side there to take that ball it would have been a clear penalty, and then Ben Whitehouse says that the ruck was just an illusion so the english player can just walk through the gap

Akrasia

Game of two halves.

UAEguy2020

This is an example of why you shouldn’t wet your knickers about a team just because they looked good in one half.

Akrasia

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

This is an example of why you shouldn’t wet your knickers about a team just because they looked good in one half.

I think they're missing a bit of balance. Fast dynamic players that blew england off the park in the first half, but the 2nd half england brought in big powerful players and they had the legs in the end

That first try in the 2nd half was bullsh1t, but after that, england deserved the win

connachta

So 1 page about Ireland game and 2 about France and England?:rolleyes:

OneLungDavy

My first time watching Kendellan play today, he looks very impressive. He reminds me of Stander, but with skills.

Clegg

connachta wrote: »

So 1 page about Ireland game and 2 about France and England?:rolleyes:

There are about 4 pages on the Ireland match and 1 and a bit for the other games. If you're so incensed about it you could always post about the game.

TRC10

OneLungDavy wrote: »

My first time watching Kendellan play today, he looks very impressive. He reminds me of Stander, but with skills.

Yeah it's a shame Stander is going, he could have been a great mentor for him.

A bit of the O'Mahony about him too in how he leads and wears his heart on his sleeve.

Him and Osborne could have huge futures.

Dave_The_Sheep

Are there replays or highlights up later? Missed it earlier.

Clegg

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Are there replays or highlights up later? Missed it earlier.

It was broadcast on RTE so maybe try the Player tomorrow?

Locke_Lamora

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Are there replays or highlights up later? Missed it earlier.

There's a full video on the six nations facebook page, and someone's posted one on youtube as well.

Clegg

Highlights are up for Dave The Sheep and whomsoever else wants to watch!

https://twitter.com/SixNationsRugby/status/1406269739006009344?s=09

Akrasia

that penalty try for wales was really harsh on Italy. I think this ref is really struggling here

Akrasia

mad stuff going on in this wales italy game

Akrasia

this is not even a penalty
never a yellow
right decision by the referee

VayNiice

The two starting Irish props are serious units! Are they highly rated? I'd never heard of them before.

Dubinusa

Delighted with the win! But, the rust was evident. It's hard to gauge where these lads are. I think the red card ended the match as a contest and I think Scotland were a better side in the 1st half.
I think the backrow was good. It looked balanced and all 3 lads were willing to carry. Morrissey and Sheridan gave a decent account of themselves. But I think Murray and McCarthy were sorely missed. The front row was good also and Boyle was really good when he came on.
The backs were poor imo. Coughing the ball up and couldn't seem to string passes together. They were fine when Scotland were down a man and exhausted.
A win is a win, so it's a good start. With the 6 day turnaround, I suspect the starting 15 will be a little different. I think though all in all, starting our 3rd choice hooker and our secondary locks, things are fairly good.
I would like to see Osborn at 13 and Cosgrave at 15. I wouldn't mind seeing Forde start at 10 also. Hop, Soroka is not out. He's vital to the pack.

Lost Ormond

VayNiice wrote: »

The two starting Irish props are serious units! Are they highly rated? I'd never heard of them before.

Theyre all highly rated!!
They didnt play schools cup or at least hyped up by papers in that comp....

Dubinusa wrote: »

Delighted with the win! But, the rust was evident. It's hard to gauge where these lads are. I think the red card ended the match as a contest and I think Scotland were a better side in the 1st half.
I think the backrow was good. It looked balanced and all 3 lads were willing to carry. Morrissey and Sheridan gave a decent account of themselves. But I think Murray and McCarthy were sorely missed. The front row was good also and Boyle was really good when he came on.
The backs were poor imo. Coughing the ball up and couldn't seem to string passes together. They were fine when Scotland were down a man and exhausted.
A win is a win, so it's a good start. With the 6 day turnaround, I suspect the starting 15 will be a little different. I think though all in all, starting our 3rd choice hooker and our secondary locks, things are fairly good.
I would like to see Osborn at 13 and Cosgrave at 15. I wouldn't mind seeing Forde start at 10 also. Hop, Soroka is not out. He's vital to the pack.

Of course they were going to be rusty. most have barely played in 12 months.
I wouldnt call the backs poor. they simply showed a lack of cohesion which very much is linked to what you said about rustiness... 6 day turnaround doesnt mean there will be too many changes. there's 5 games and its not like its the world championship with its 3 day turnarounds so resting players/changing up the team isnt going to be the same.

Purist98

Osborne at 13 with Cosgrave at 15 is a good option, would still give you a second playmaker type in the backline if they went with a different 12

Garfin

Purist98 wrote: »

Osborne at 13 with Cosgrave at 15 is a good option, would still give you a second playmaker type in the backline if they went with a different 12

Osborne is a fine player, but looked greedy/lack of trust at times when he over carried rather than passing to a player in a better position.
Backline generally lacked cohesion especially in the first half they were looking to get the ball wide to the back three skipping 13 and it didn't work it looked disjointed and all very individual.
Not having played much if any rugby for the past year makes it a huge challenge for the lads and even more so that they haven't played much as a backline together. I think the cohesion will improve and they will try different combinations as the games go on.
It was a positive stsrt with lots to build on France and England will be a different challenge but it always is at this level.

Dubinusa

It's really a shame that so many of the 1st choice lads are out injured. Tom Stewart is a loss as is Doak. I was looking forward to seeing Doak or Ben Murphy. Joe McCarthy also misses out and Barron.
But with the injuries, other lads get a chance. There does look to be a few really good prospects.

Garfin

Dubinusa wrote: »

It's really a shame that so many of the 1st choice lads are out injured. Tom Stewart is a loss as is Doak. I was looking forward to seeing Doak or Ben Murphy. Joe McCarthy also misses out and Barron.
But with the injuries, other lads get a chance. There does look to be a few really good prospects.

Definitely its disappointing for all those lads that are injured Darragh Murray and McCarthy would be an exciting second row combination, I thought Reilly at 9 looked good when he came on.
I think we would all like to see the strongest team we could field the flip side lads are getting opportunities that they wouldn't have gotten.

OneLungDavy

How good was Jack Boyle when he came on! He looks a serious specimen at only 18, probably the most physically mature lad on the pitch.

Lsdrugbyfan

OneLungDavy wrote: »

How good was Jack Boyle when he came on! He looks a serious specimen at only 18, probably the most physically mature lad on the pitch.

He is a good bit away from being physically mature, he is after all only 18 and has yet to stop growing/filling out.

Soroka, Kendellan, Illo and O'Connor all look to be much more physically matured.

TRC10

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

He is a good bit away from being physically mature, he is after all only 18 and has yet to stop growing/filling out.

Soroka, Kendellan, Illo and O'Connor all look to be much more physically matured.

Stick Osborne on that list too.

He has started games in the centre for Leinster and didn't look one bit out of place.

I hope he's left at 15 and we don't try to make him into a centre like Henshaw. He has all the skills to be a fantastic 15. I think he'll push Jimmy O'Brien next season.

Lsdrugbyfan

Leinster have shown no indication recently they view him as being a 15.. but maybe his u20 performances will change that.

the lack of talented big outside backs produced by leinster recently has become an issue, someone of Osbornes size/skill will be a huge boost wherever he settles.

Henshaw was a centre underage and moved to fullback at pro level, whereas Osborne has played 15 at leinster/irish underage but centre at pro level.

OneLungDavy

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

He is a good bit away from being physically mature, he is after all only 18 and has yet to stop growing/filling out.

Soroka, Kendellan, Illo and O'Connor all look to be much more physically matured.

He is absolutely one of the most physically mature players I've seen at that age. I'm talking about muscle mass and maturity, other players are obviously bigger but he has the most potential to grow into another Porter/Healy/Ferris type.

Lsdrugbyfan

OneLungDavy wrote: »

He is absolutely one of the most physically mature players I've seen at that age. I'm talking about muscle mass and maturity, other players are obviously bigger but he has the most potential to grow into another Porter/Healy/Ferris type.

I agree he has the potential to turn into a healy/porter type at prop.. but I don't agree that he was the most physically mature player on the field.

He's had considerable maturation in the past 6 months but he is a long way from where he will end up.

Where as someone like Kendellan is nearly maxed out when it comes to his physical maturation.

Anyway doesn't really matter he was impressive when he came on for sure, bench role probably suits him at the moment, didn't get on the ball much but strong impact defensively and at the ruck.

Lsdrugbyfan

Wales have a huge pack:

1. Garyn Phillips - 6'0, 114kg
2. Efan Daniel - 6'1, 96kg
3. Nathan Evans - 5'9, 119kg
4. Joe Peard - 6'7, 125kg
5. Dafydd Jenkins - 6'7, 114kg
6. Alex Mann (capt) - 6'3, 95kg
7. Harri Deaves - 5'11, 90kg
8. Carwyn Tuipulotu - 6'2, 120kg
16. Oliver Burrows - 6'2, 109kg
17. Theo Bevacqua - 6'0, 115kg
18. Lewys Jones - 6'0, 120kg
19. James Fender - 6'6, 120kg
20. Tristan Davies - 6'4, 104kg

starkid

fairly big pack. is their 8 good?

as an aside, is Kendellan big enough for a number 8 at the top level? Penny and himself at 6 or 7 with a Doris/Coombes at 8, could be a ridiculous backrow combination in future. he just seems to have such a rugby brain and mentality. like a leavy.

OneLungDavy

starkid wrote: »

fairly big pack. is their 8 good?

as an aside, is Kendellan big enough for a number 8 at the top level? Penny and himself at 6 or 7 with a Doris/Coombes at 8, could be a ridiculous backrow combination in future. he just seems to have such a rugby brain and mentality. like a leavy.

Isn't this the guy who is Falateu's cousin?

Lsdrugbyfan

OneLungDavy wrote: »

Isn't this the guy who is Falateu's cousin?

Yep.

TRC10

OneLungDavy wrote: »

Isn't this the guy who is Falateu's cousin?

Tuipolotu yeah.

He's a monster to be fair. He played against Leinster in January and looked pretty good.

Lsdrugbyfan

starkid wrote: »

fairly big pack. is their 8 good?

as an aside, is Kendellan big enough for a number 8 at the top level? Penny and himself at 6 or 7 with a Doris/Coombes at 8, could be a ridiculous backrow combination in future. he just seems to have such a rugby brain and mentality. like a leavy.

I don't see Kendellan moving Coombes from 8.

But stranger things have happened.

He is small for a modern pro number 8, but there are exceptions to that size requirement.

Hodnett was amazing at 20s level and had started putting in good performances for munster ore injury if he comes back the same he could be a shout for a 7 there. Played 8 at 20s also

UAEguy2020

If Ireland named the best pack available to them, put Darragh Murray in the second row for Sheridan (who I see as a 6), the pack weight’s are very similar with Wales winning it by like 12 kg.

Lsdrugbyfan

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

If Ireland named the best pack available to them, put Darragh Murray in the second row for Sheridan (who I see as a 6), the pack weight’s are very similar with Wales winning it by like 12 kg.

12kg is not similar weight wise.

Murray would be replacing Morrissey anyway if he is healthy.

UAEguy2020

starkid wrote: »

fairly big pack. is their 8 good?

as an aside, is Kendellan big enough for a number 8 at the top level? Penny and himself at 6 or 7 with a Doris/Coombes at 8, could be a ridiculous backrow combination in future. he just seems to have such a rugby brain and mentality. like a leavy.

I don’t think size really matters a whole lot when you are as talented as Kendellen is, maybe if he was exceptionally small but 6’2 and 105kg isn’t very small and he’ll only grow from that.

UAEguy2020

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

12kg is not similar weight wise.

Murray would be replacing Morrissey anyway if he is healthy.

When the two packs are nearly 900kg I think it is. When they are that close it means it will come down to who are the strongest.

If that happens then Ireland have the heavier pack by like a kg or 2.

Lsdrugbyfan

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

I don’t think size really matters a whole lot when you are as talented as Kendellen is, maybe if he was exceptionally small but 6’2 and 105kg isn’t very small and he’ll only grow from that.

Size of course matters at pro level.

Kendellan looks maxed out physically, I don't think he will be putting on much more weight.

Lsdrugbyfan

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

When the two packs are nearly 900kg I think it is. When they are that close it means it will come down to who are the strongest.

If that happens then Ireland have the heavier pack by like a kg or 2.

Wales have a much bigger pack.

UAEguy2020

Lsdrugbyfan wrote: »

Wales have a much bigger pack.

Have you calculated the combined weight of both packs? I have and the difference was Wales by 12 kg, and that was with Morrissey in the row, if he’s taken out for Murray rather than Sheridan than that’s and extra 13 kg which means the packs Wright is basically the same.