2020/21 NBA season + Olympics

Sweet.Science

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Some strange results and an awful lot of blowouts already. This, coupled with the miniseries nature of scheduling will throw up some weird records I feel. And that's before we go into COVID. Part of me wonders if they'll be able to see the whole season and Play Offs out and if cancelling the season is inevitable?

You can't have games with 7 players like we did last week, that's absolutely farcical.

All things being equal I can't see anyone beating the Lakers in the Play Offs. But what happens if LeBron and/or AD test positive or are close contacts for a Game 6 or 7?

If the Clippers upgrade at point guard i think they can beat the lakers.

pjohnson

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Some strange results and an awful lot of blowouts already. This, coupled with the miniseries nature of scheduling will throw up some weird records I feel. And that's before we go into COVID. Part of me wonders if they'll be able to see the whole season and Play Offs out and if cancelling the season is inevitable?

You can't have games with 7 players like we did last week, that's absolutely farcical.

All things being equal I can't see anyone beating the Lakers in the Play Offs. But what happens if LeBron and/or AD test positive or are close contacts for a Game 6 or 7?

Cant see it cancelled. Maybe allow for or create "Covid Contracts" and allow a team plug the roster gaps while a player is isolating. Give a 14 day contract exempt from any cap.

Corvo

Corvo wrote: »

Think the Kyrie thing could be linked to the incidents in Washington. Sort of thing that would send him into a spiralling depression of some sort.

:cool:

Corvo

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Some strange results and an awful lot of blowouts already. This, coupled with the miniseries nature of scheduling will throw up some weird records I feel. And that's before we go into COVID. Part of me wonders if they'll be able to see the whole season and Play Offs out and if cancelling the season is inevitable?

You can't have games with 7 players like we did last week, that's absolutely farcical.

All things being equal I can't see anyone beating the Lakers in the Play Offs. But what happens if LeBron and/or AD test positive or are close contacts for a Game 6 or 7?

I've been thinking about this.

I think regular season the league will just tell everyone to push on and not really take their woes into consideration (i.e. like the Sixers the other night) and try keep the schedule moving to stay on the timeline of the play-offs.

However come play-off time I think they will be more considerate and allow postponement's to a certain extent. They will not want televised games without say, LeBron or Davis or another star etc.

They know another bubble isn't possible (for a number of reasons).

Sweet.Science

Corvo wrote: »

I've been thinking about this.

I think regular season the league will just tell everyone to push on and not really take their woes into consideration (i.e. like the Sixers the other night) and try keep the schedule moving to stay on the timeline of the play-offs.

However come play-off time I think they will be more considerate and allow postponement's to a certain extent. They will not want televised games without say, LeBron or Davis or another star etc.

They know another bubble isn't possible (for a number of reasons).

Cant see postponements happening . That could be postponed for anything up for 14 days . And then what happens if another player gets covid or is a close contact when that time is up .

Corvo

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Cant see postponements happening . That could be postponed for anything up for 14 days . And then what happens if another player gets covid or is a close contact when that time is up .

Sorry I should have expanded further.

Certainly if a player tests positive it could cause problems, due to the length of time the isolation requires.

But a close contact I think they might consider, how long was Durant out for? 7 days? With multiple tests along the way.

ButtersSuki

Corvo wrote: »

Sorry I should have expanded further.

Certainly if a player tests positive it could cause problems, due to the length of time the isolation requires.

But a close contact I think they might consider, how long was Durant out for? 7 days? With multiple tests along the way.

But Durant was already a positive back in March/April...........hence why he didn't have to go into 14day isolation. First timers will all be 14 days.

Top Dog

Corvo wrote: »

They know another bubble isn't possible (for a number of reasons).

Why? I've seen a few commentators suggest it would be a good thing.

Corvo

ButtersSuki wrote: »

But Durant was already a positive back in March/April...........hence why he didn't have to go into 14day isolation. First timers will all be 14 days.

Ah, thank you, I didn't realise this

pjohnson

The contract tracing is whats decimating the squads. Unsurprisingly Boston cancelled the next game, now the Mavs have cancelled tonights game.

Once started most will be isolating and unavailable for a few games so either need to allow temporary deals to allow matches continue or pull the plug and wait.

buyer95

Watching the first quarter of Lakes Rockets here. The disinterest of Harden is actually astounding t's so blatant. Harden may as well be patting Schroder on the back after waving him through. I'd call it poor defence, but it's actually worse than that, he's not trying a leg. Lakers in second gear and up 18. Rockets need to get the best possible deal they can find and trade Harden. This has the potential to be a Vince Carter in Toronto situation I feel. As I type he has just done it again, switched on to Harrell and just left him turn and score without Harden so much as even attempting to look like he was trying. I know it's a miss match size wise, but watch it back and you'll see. Terrible behaviour by him

buyer95

14 points, they are on pace for 56. God this is bad. Rockets are done. Harden is not going to the basket, and is just firing passes around. No frre throw yet by him.
Harden for Irving, who says no? Risky for Rockets with Irving such a train wreck off the court there's no doubt. But possibly the best deal they could get. If Harden goes to another team he instantly turns it around(after he drops 15 pounds, he's way out of shape.) He's just done trying in Houston

pjohnson

Rockets would be mad to accept Irving, better off keeping the unhappy Harden. He at least makes it to the court.

Corvo

It’s a pity Harden is like this because it looks like John Wall is really putting in a shift.

Sweet.Science

buyer95 wrote: »

14 points, they are on pace for 56. God this is bad. Rockets are done. Harden is not going to the basket, and is just firing passes around. No frre throw yet by him.
Harden for Irving, who says no? Risky for Rockets with Irving such a train wreck off the court there's no doubt. But possibly the best deal they could get. If Harden goes to another team he instantly turns it around(after he drops 15 pounds, he's way out of shape.) He's just done trying in Houston

Nash would snap the Rockets hand off for that trade . And it would just what Kyrie deserves. Shocking professionalism for years now. People online saying leave him along he doesnt want to play after George Floyd and wants to make a stand

Not buying that . Refuse to be paid aswel then. We will see how you really feel

KD by they way. Insanely good

pjohnson

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Nash would snap the Rockets hand off for that trade . And it would just what Kyrie deserves. Shocking professionalism for years now. People online saying leave him along he doesnt want to play after George Floyd and wants to make a stand

Not buying that . Refuse to be paid aswel then. We will see how you really feel

KD by they way. Insanely good

The NBA are investigating Irving for partying during this hiatus. So the whole "Capitol Hill" stunt seems irrelevant.

Corvo

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Nash would snap the Rockets hand off for that trade . And it would just what Kyrie deserves. Shocking professionalism for years now. People online saying leave him along he doesnt want to play after George Floyd and wants to make a stand

Not buying that . Refuse to be paid aswel then. We will see how you really feel

KD by they way. Insanely good

There’s obviously something wrong mental health wise though. Or at least that’s the feeling I get.

Sweet.Science

Corvo wrote: »

There’s obviously something wrong mental health wise though. Or at least that’s the feeling I get.

Maybe you are right there . Until its confirmed though i think he's just been an ass . He went to partys i. Called him teammates saying he wasnt playing and not the coach and GM.

I think they trade him if they can get Harden . I think the Rockets have no choice but to take that risk .

Harden is so out of shape its hilarious .

ButtersSuki

I'm not sure Houston would be in a hurry to trade for Irving considering how he's behaved on teams he's actually wanted to play for - who knows what he'd be like on team he doesn't want to play for.

Can't see it for another major reason - KD and Irving decided to play together in Brooklyn. You trade Irving and you immediately p*ss off KD.

ButtersSuki

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Maybe you are right there . Until its confirmed though i think he's just been an ass . He went to partys i. Called him teammates saying he wasnt playing and not the coach and GM.

I think they trade him if they can get Harden . I think the Rockets have no choice but to take that risk .

Harden is so out of shape its hilarious .

He's an embarrassment to himself the way he's let himself go. I've watched a few of his workout videos, he certainly puts in the effort when he wants to - this is just a complete FU to Houston.

Sweet.Science

ButtersSuki wrote: »

He's an embarrassment to himself the way he's let himself go. I've watched a few of his workout videos, he certainly puts in the effort when he wants to - this is just a complete FU to Houston.

Thats exactly what it is. He is forcing their hand. I dont even know how he could put on that much weight intentionally . He must be eating in bed instead of sleeping

Coneygree

Harden's weight gain is bizarre. I might be going daft but I was sure when he played a few weeks ago he wasn't as nearly as fat as he is now.

Kyrie is almost a parody of himself with his weirdness. There's hard evidence he was out celebrating his sister's birthday. Nash must be going daft. And even though Durant is close to Kyrie he must be upset too. He didn't go through a hard rehab to get back to a level near Warriors KD for Kyrie to mess around.

buyer95

ButtersSuki wrote: »

He's an embarrassment to himself the way he's let himself go. I've watched a few of his workout videos, he certainly puts in the effort when he wants to - this is just a complete FU to Houston.

A complete FU is right. Here are some quotes from post game last night.

"We're just not good enough - chemistry, talent-wise, just everything." "I love this city. I literally have done everything that I can," said Harden. "I mean, this situation is crazy. It's something that I don't think can be fixed."


We're not even close, honestly, to that team - obviously the defending champions - and all the other elite teams out there," he told a news conference. "I mean, you can tell the difference in these last two games.

I'd have a few thoughts on those quotes. Firstly way to go throwing your teamates under the bus as being not talented enough, secondly the chemistry issue starts and ends with him. He is the best player and the team leader.


He's right they are not close to the Lakers. But they are a hell of a lot better than what they have shown against them in the last two games. Lack of effort is as much to blame as talent disparity. The Rockets can certainly hang with the Lakers in a regular season game, if Harden is engaged. Also it is worth noting that Harden has done everything he could in years past to put Houston over the top, and they have come close. None more so than when they should have made the NBA Finals in 18 after going 3-2 ahead in the conference finals against the Warriors. That was a serious team and would most likely have won that game 7 if CP3 didn't go down. Those are great memories for Rockets fans. It's awful to see it end like this. But I think it's fair to say that James took one look at this roster and decided he can't win with them. He is obviously pushing on in age too, so that has played into it also I'm sure.

All of this means one thing. The situation is now at breaking point, and is becoming damaging to Houston. They can hold Harden and try and get a better deal, but the longer this goes on the harder it will be for Silas to have any chance at turning the culture around. It's not even about winning, if Harden goes and they get back picks and young guys then obviously a big rebuild will be on the cards. But bad habits are hard to break, and Silas will find it very difficult unless he gets him out ASAP

pjohnson

Seems Harden is out ASAP.

Going by Twitter Brooklyn have put everyone (except KD) and 3 picks on the table to get him.

Philly offering Simmons.

Harden wants Philly but Brooklyns offer more appealing. His comments seem to have accelarated everything dramatically.

buyer95

Yeah the death knell has definitely sounded on his time in Houston.
Per Woj
"The Rockets are planning to keep Harden away until a trade is done --- with front office weighing best final offers from Brooklyn and Philadelphia, sources tell @ramonashelburne and me. Process is moving quickly now."

buyer95

And it's done. Harden to the Nets. Full trade details


Brooklyn - James Harden

Houston - Caris LeVert, Dante Exum, Rodions Kurcus, 4 1st Round Picks, 4 Pick Swaps

Cleveland - Jarret Allen, Taurean Prince

WOW. 🀯🀯🀯

(via @wojespn)

Top Dog

Looks like he's gone - https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30706097/sources-houston-rockets-trade-james-harden-brooklyn-nets

Morrison J

Oladipo going to Houston too, Lavert to Indiana

pjohnson

buyer95 wrote: »

And it's done. Harden to the Nets. Full trade details


Brooklyn - James Harden

Houston - Caris LeVert, Dante Exum, Rodions Kurcus, 4 1st Round Picks, 4 Pick Swaps

Cleveland - Jarret Allen, Taurean Prince

WOW. 🀯🀯🀯

(via @wojespn)

Oladipo is involved.

LuckyGent88

Ah go all out and trade Kyrie to Washington for Westbrook. I want an OKC reunion !!!!

Coneygree

What on earth is going on. Nets will be looking to put up 200 pts a night while conceding 190 a night.

Morrison J

Surprised the Sixers let it come to this and weren't willing to top it especially with Morey pulling the strings.

I get it's a big if with that many diva's who demand the ball on one team but if they gel that Nets offense is scary. What team is guarding Durant, Kyrie and Harden with Joe Harris sitting in the corner.

K.O.Kiki

2020: "Man, what a crazy season."
2021: "Hold my beard."

buyer95

Morrison J wrote: »

Surprised the Sixers let it come to this and weren't willing to top it especially with Morey pulling the strings.

I get it's a big if with that many diva's who demand the ball on one team but if they gel that Nets offense is scary. What team is guarding Durant, Kyrie and Harden with Joe Harris sitting in the corner.

Yeah but will they be able to stop anybody? They will be a lot of fun, but not convinced there is enough defence their to stop Lakers. Time will tell, and I'm certainly excited to see how it works out.

Coneygree

Nets will have to have Deandre Jordan playing 30mins a night, Jesus bloody wept.

I guess Houston will flip Oladipo for picks when they can. Decent rebuild tbh.

Morrison J

buyer95 wrote: »

Yeah but will they be able to stop anybody? They will be a lot of fun, but not convinced there is enough defence their to stop Lakers. Time will tell, and I'm certainly excited to see how it works out.

Yeah that's the big question. Don't see how they matchup well to stop Davis either.

Coneygree

Although I think Simmons is highly disrespected and didn't deserve to end up in Houston, I wanted to see Harden at Philly badly.

Morrison J

Coneygree wrote: »

I guess Houston will flip Oladipo for picks when they can. Decent rebuild tbh.

Contract expires in the summer though. Nice trade for the Pacers tbf.

Morrison J

Coneygree wrote: »

Although I think Simmons is highly disrespected and didn't deserve to end up in Houston, I wanted to see Harden at Philly badly.

Very surprised that move didn't happen to be honest. If I'm the Rockets I'd much prefer Simmons as a piece than those draft picks that prob won't amount to much. Wonder if the Rockets just didn't want to deal Harden back to Morey.

Wouldn't be surprised to see the Sixers move for Beal now. They definitely need to make a move.

Coneygree

Brooklyn went from a crazy deep bench to a shocking one. No Dinwiddie, Lavert or Allen. Whatever about the Clippers going all in for Paul George, the Nets really are.

Corvo

They better hope this works

I mean it's a better team than the deron pp kg team for sure but I'd have thought brooklyn of all teams would be cautious giving out picks like that. Are these ones protected at least

ButtersSuki

Very strange trade IMO. I think Houston undersold and ultimately the Nets gave too much away (not to Houston though). I’m too tired to comment fully on it now, I will in the morning when I’ve had time to digest it.

pjohnson

Breakdown team by team here

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/01/rockets-to-trade-james-harden-to-nets.html?fv-home=true&post-id=200736

Carcharodon

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Very strange trade IMO. I think Houston undersold and ultimately the Nets gave too much away (not to Houston though). I’m too tired to comment fully on it now, I will in the morning when I’ve had time to digest it.

Yea, it’s peculiar but I find most of these big trades these days are hard to judge because of so many moving parts and giving value to assets, picks etc.

On the face of it for me, Harden isn’t a great sell now, he looks out of shape, his attitude stinks, he is no doubt a great scorer and player but he has never got over the line.
Not getting over the line is fine and creating a super team like Warriors or Lakers works but great talent doesn’t guarantee great success, the players have to buy into the system to gain success.
Will Harden buy into this ?
Will Kyrie stay anyway reliable for the season, his issues really can’t be downplayed.
And while Nets have gained a superstar, they have weakened the entire team, especially a player like Allen, it’s always a risky move to put all your eggs in one basket, I personally think it’s not a great move for the Nets but who knows.

I am not a fan of how Harden kept Houston hostage, he hasn’t done enough to warrant that type of behavior.
I ve watched a lot of Harden getting punked by the Warriors over the past few years, maying having Durant now will change that.

The biggest loser is Steve Nash, trying to manage the egos on this team.

tyivpc5qjx0f2b

I think the Rockets very clearly won this trade. I can't imagine a situation where someone can conclude otherwise.
I understand the historical instances of superstar for pieces scenario but strong case to be made that recent examples have been more favourable to the teams who received pieces.

Nevertheless, Hardens situation is more unique as he tanked his historical value through petulance and poor conditioning while also reducing his current market value further through limiting his trade destinations.
Although he didn't have a trade veto, other potential suitors -assume Kings for argument- arent willing to remortgage in light of his behaviour/play.
When Cousins is calling you out for your behaviour, you know there are some serious issues.

On pure talent alone perhaps a case can be made for the Rockets having lost but

Oladipo (looks fantastic again, high value expiring contract)
Exum
Kurucs
four unprotected first-round picks (Brooklyn 2022, 2024 and 2026, Milwaukee 2022), and four unprotected first-round pick swaps (2021, 2023, 2025, 2027)

For

Harden
2nd round pick

That's a fantastic haul for a disenfranchised unfit 31 year old with limited destinations.
The reason Philly didn't match this trade is because Morey is shrewd enough to know the Rockets got too much.

Not quite the same but some potential Garnett, Pierce & Allen deja vu going on here.

2smiggy

what will Irving and Harden do trying to play together ? Find it a very strange trade. On paper looks like too ass-holes brought onto the same team, and giving a decent bit of their future away (again)

pjohnson

Brooklyn need defence, afaik they have 2 roster spots open so surely they will look for defensive players to fill those spots.

Sweet.Science

pjohnson wrote: »

Brooklyn need defence, afaik they have 2 roster spots open so surely they will look for defensive players to fill those spots.

I think they have 3. Brown is a good defender but will need help . They have extra cap space as Dinwiddie is gone for the year . If they can manage to get a couple of hustlers in they will take a lot of beaten . However who knows what Kyrie will do

The league needed this though .

Also , people are now sleeping on the Pacers .

tyivpc5qjx0f2b

Sweet.Science wrote: »

I think they have 3. Brown is a good defender but will need help . They have extra cap space as Dinwiddie is gone for the year . If they can manage to get a couple of hustlers in they will take a lot of beaten . However who knows what Kyrie will do

The league needed this though .

Also , people are now sleeping on the Pacers .

Extra cap space is little value if you have zero assets to trade in order to acquire expiring contracts.
They'll largely be resigned to buyouts and have a host of teams to compete with there.

In terms of their beating, imo this trade isn't just poor long term, I question the short term value.

You add a disengaged unfit high usage scorer who's prowess is most evident in the regular season.
The Nets have two of the leagues best scorers over the past 10 years, fire power is not what they're light on.
If the goal is to be an unbelievable scoring team in the regular season, then mission -potentially- accomplished.

Evident things they have to contend with:

Poor defensive backcourt
Harden effort/fitness
KD injury history
Kyrie ongoing issues
Rookie head coach
Zero trade assets
Covid on a very top heavy roster

They're just the obvious ones.

I think they'll struggle to get to the conference finals.

The Heat, Celtics, Sixers & Bucks have the beating of them come playoff time.