Covid 19 Part XXX-113,332 ROI(2,282 deaths) 81,251 NI (1,384 deaths) (05/01) Read OP

Jim_Hodge

jackboy wrote: »

Varadkar flying a kite now that the current lockdown is going to last long term. It’s clear now that we are talking months rather than weeks.

In fairness, he did say this before Christmas and the dogs on the street knew it.

jackboy

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Reaffirming a point made last week isn't kite flying

Maybe so but the bulk of the population still don’t realize what is ahead. There still has not been clarity. Has it been made clear to the hospitality sector that they will be closed for the next few months?

Also, the restrictions are reasonably light at the moment. They are likely to be significantly tightened in the next few days and weeks.

SpacialNeeds

BrianD3 wrote: »

It's worse than that. Long before Covid arrived there was an apathetic if not callous attitude to elderly patients in our public hospitals. Our health service is dysfunctional and staff can't/don't have time to deal with difficult and time consuming cases i.e. elderly patients with multiple comorbidities. They are regarded as bed blockers and they are be to be discharged to the community as soon as possible and who cares if there are inadequate supports available - not the hospital's problem.

An example would be a relatively healthy elderly person suffering some health issue (e.g. UTI) which causes them to become confused/delirious with "off legs". And then relatives having to explain to multiple healthcare staff that, no he's not normally like this, and no, we don't expect him to be deprioritised and written off because of his age.

This year add in the frenzy of we must keep this hospital free for the Covid surge. Also, get those Covid positive patients out of this hospital and into nursing homes asap - wait a sec - will they be isolated there - ah who cares, someone else's problem.

My mother fell and fractured a bone at the height of the first Covid wave. Into hospital and discharged within two hours, A&E was empty. Sent away with "you're grand, keep moving, here's a prescription for painkillers". No letter for GP, no followup, no walking frame, no referral for physiotherapy. Many months late my mother who previously was walking well and independently is housebound with a significant disability and still no physiotherapy. No home help. GP also pretty useless. Nobody apart from me gives a crap about her quality of life

if we had a functional health service then I would accept suggestions that patients are not being admitted to hospitals and ICUs because of DNRs and because it wouldn't be in their best interest., I don't believe that the best interests of elderly patients are a particular priority in our health service. Also i don't accept that healthcare workers are heroes, I've been in and out of public hospitals and nursing homes for the last 20 years with various relatives and have come across enough terrible attitudes and incompetence to be very cynical.

My own grandfather is being cared for by my father and his sister in their homes. They had respite at the start of December for two weeks so he went into a nursing home where he got a UTI (he was severely dehydrated, so they suspect he just wouldn't drink water and they didn't bother to try to coax him as they would).

He's been in hospital all throughout Christmas because of it and we're worried now about secondary infection and wondering if he'll pull through at all.

As far as I'm concerned those nursing home staff should be charged with manslaughter. Carers should be entitled to respite and not fraught with guilt when they leave in the knowledge that their relative will be neglected to the point of actually dying as a consequence.

RamonD3

I'd much prefer the certainty of saying March or Easter for example, to the rolling 3 week reviews and death by a thousand cuts media coverage.

Widdensushi

The restaurants won't be open this side of paddy's day

stephenjmcd

jackboy wrote: »

Maybe so but the bulk of the population still don’t realize what is ahead. There still has not been clarity. Has it been made clear to the hospitality sector that they will be closed for the next few months?

Also, the restrictions are reasonably light at the moment. They are likely to be significantly tightened in the next few days and weeks.

Clarity ? They're literally saying the same thing as last week, expect this for the next 2 months, fairly clear to me to be honest. You'd want to be living under a rock if someone thought these were ending on 12th Jan.

They're being tightened on New year's day as it is.

When you say significantly tightened, bar closing non essential retail there isn't that much left to close and they clearly don't have the evidence that closing that sector has much impact.

They've said it themselves, come the end of February a large proportion of the critical mass will be vaccinated, that gives more flexibility in terms of what restrictions can and can't be lifted. By that stage we should also have 2 possibly 3 more vaccines approved for use which will greatly accelerate the rollout, allowing mass vacination centres, GPs and pharmacists to be involved.

Eod100

RamonD3 wrote: »

I'd much prefer the certainty of saying March or Easter for example, to the rolling 3 week reviews and death by a thousand cuts media coverage.

Yeah I think that's the way to think of it. No point doing the review every 3 weeks thing as well take a while for cases to go down and they will be even more cautious with vaccines being rolled out.

Jaded Walker

Had to bring my young man, he's 6, for a swab test yesterday. We don't think he has it, just a precaution. I was shocked at the number of people getting tested. It was well done, didn't have to leave the car. It only took about ten minutes from arrival to exit.

jackboy

stephenjmcd wrote: »

When you say significantly tightened, bar closing non essential retail there isn't that much left to close and they clearly don't have the evidence that closing that sector has much impact.

There is a good chance that non essential retail and gyms will be closed soon, evidence or not.

stephenjmcd

jackboy wrote: »

There is a good chance that non essential retail and gyms will be closed soon, evidence or not.

Seeing as your selectively quoting bits of the reply, if you want to selectively quote bits of Varadkar and Martin in the last few days that doesn't seem to be the case.

embraer170

BrianD3 wrote: »

It's worse than that. Long before Covid arrived there was an apathetic if not callous attitude to elderly patients in our public hospitals. Our health service is dysfunctional and staff can't/don't have time to deal with difficult and time consuming cases i.e. elderly patients with multiple comorbidities. They are regarded as bed blockers and they are be to be discharged to the community as soon as possible and who cares if there are inadequate supports available - not the hospital's problem.

An example would be a relatively healthy elderly person suffering some health issue (e.g. UTI) which causes them to become confused/delirious with "off legs". And then relatives having to explain to multiple healthcare staff that, no he's not normally like this, and no, we don't expect him to be deprioritised and written off because of his age.

This year add in the frenzy of we must keep this hospital free for the Covid surge. Also, get those Covid positive patients out of this hospital and into nursing homes asap - wait a sec - will they be isolated there - ah who cares, someone else's problem.

My mother fell and fractured a bone at the height of the first Covid wave. Into hospital and discharged within two hours, A&E was empty. Sent away with "you're grand, keep moving, here's a prescription for painkillers". No letter for GP, no followup, no walking frame, no referral for physiotherapy. Many months late my mother who previously was walking well and independently is housebound with a significant disability and still no physiotherapy. No home help. GP also pretty useless. Nobody apart from me gives a crap about her quality of life

if we had a functional health service then I would accept suggestions that patients are not being admitted to hospitals and ICUs because of DNRs and because it wouldn't be in their best interest., I don't believe that the best interests of elderly patients are a particular priority in our health service. Also i don't accept that healthcare workers are heroes, I've been in and out of public hospitals and nursing homes for the last 20 years with various relatives and have come across enough terrible attitudes and incompetence to be very cynical.

You have summarised the situation extremely well.

Access to critical hospital care including ICU is far more limited for the elderly in Ireland (and Britain) than in most mainland European countries.

jackboy

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Seeing as your selectively quoting bits of the reply, if you want to selectively quote bits of Varadkar and Martin in the last few days that doesn't seem to be the case.

Just basing my opinions on what has happened since last March.

KrustyUCC

Varadkar's version of sustainable restrictions is going to be interesting

In relation to travel will they be bringing back the 5km or will it be own county only

Can't see intercounty travel so that's potentially another 2 months of not seeing friends, family, partners in other counties again

leahyl

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Varadkar's version of sustainable restrictions is going to be interesting

In relation to travel will they be bringing back the 5km or will it be own county only

Can't see intercounty travel so that's potentially another 2 months of not seeing friends, family, partners in other counties again

MM was asked about the 5km travel the other day and I think he said it would be travel within own county - think they probably realise that people are not going to follow the 5km restrictions anymore now, those days are long gone for the vast majority

CIARAN_BOYLE

Veradkar seems to want restrictions that will hold til March.

Given the high restrictions level 5 minus that we have might be the only option.

Personally Id be more in favour of real level 5 get the cases down then back to some sort of 3+ (maybe outdoors hospitality).

The balancing is a hard act. This level 5 minus will only have a slow effect on numbers so if they go for it they have to be confident they can sustain it.

leanin2019

NPHET Recommended the Full Level 5 according to Leo if you listen to the full interview

However he implied it would be better to keep to the current restrictions and wait to see if that improves the situation, and that the Full Level 5 may not reduce the cases enough to justify the damage caused by it.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/11267631

klose

leanin2019 wrote: »

NPHET Recommended the Full Level 5 according to Leo if you listen to the full interview

However he implied it would be better to keep to the current restrictions and wait to see if that improves the situation, and that the Full Level 5 may not reduce the cases enough to justify the damage caused by it.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/11267631

The level of restrictions just keep yoyoing constantly and nphet can't ever see any other resolution than hitting the panic button and going to level 5.
Personally id like to see the current restrictions been given a fair crack of the whip and see what happens they are atleast something different, january is always a quiet month for retail so shops won't be anywhere near as busy as before.

JTMan

leanin2019 wrote: »

However he implied it would be better to keep to the current restrictions and wait to see if that improves the situation, and that the Full Level 5 may not reduce the cases enough to justify the damage caused by it.

Yeah, seems like the restrictions will stay at level '5 minus' for around 2 months. i.e. Non essential retail and gyms can stay open. The right decision IMO. The damage to peoples lives that closing these sectors would cause is not worth the tiny effect on cases.

The Irish Times have a report on Varadkar's comments here.

He clearly said that restrictions will not be reviewed until 12 January so there will be no change this week and it sounds like no change on 12 January too.

Status quo until 28 February or so it seems.

AdamD

I think cases would drop off in a couple of weeks regardless of the level we're at (though it will obviously help). I get the impression social activity will be considerably lower than it was a couple of weeks ago.

Happydays2020

klose wrote: »

The level of restrictions just keep yoyoing constantly and nphet can't ever see any other resolution than hitting the panic button and going to level 5.
Personally id like to see the current restrictions been given a fair crack of the whip and see what happens they are atleast something different, january is always a quiet month for retail so shops won't be anywhere near as busy as before.

I agree. The evidence is that level 3 plus in October led to a strong turn in the numbers and level 5 did not drive them down further.

However, they really need to hammer home the message that the riskiest environments are private settings with people mixing. Focusing on non essential retail kind off gets people off the hook.

Ger Roe

RamonD3 wrote: »

I'd much prefer the certainty of saying March or Easter for example, to the rolling 3 week reviews and death by a thousand cuts media coverage.

We would all like some certainty. The public don't behave in a manner that allows us to deal with the known certainty of the virus behaviour, therefore nothing has been certain so far. Everything has been a reaction to developing circumstances at the time.

There was implied certainty, such as everyone having a degree of social interaction at Christmas and we now have to react to the consequences of the actions that were then taken.

We had a certain threshold for case numbers before pre christmas restrictions could be lifted, and we jumped early because of public pressure over what was promised.

The only thing we know for sure, is that nothing is certain.

ElJeffe

Lockdown ala March until end of January (schools, construction etc.. all closed), then level 3 until mid March and see where we are then. I'd argue we'd be in a decent place then with a lot of the at risk vaccinated and we can finally move on from this s**t show.

KrustyUCC

No chance they will close schools and construction like in March

speckle

Ficheall wrote: »

I would have agreed with you until he posted a Bono video. Now he's clearly a bast*rd of the highest order.

haha... not your favorite bono then I take it.. but the frames... liam o maolai...sinead o c... lisa hannigan and many more in there but particularily the ordinary people of Dublin
..Maybe one of the others will tickle your fancy... Have a lovely Christmas and new year maybe this might suit you better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Hj3U18FHgQ

Actualy my favorites for this particular year are 'have yourself a merry little Christmas' from meet me in st.Louis because 'I'm dreaming of a white Christmas' so 'let it snow!...and 'happy xmas war is over' so 'merry xmas everbody! And well... the muppets.. aren't you lucky I didnt post U2 singing lennon/yoko from the late late show then
mmmh maybe much later... though I am tempted..

klose

The initial march lockdown was so harsh because nobody had any idea the severity of the situation we were dealing with, we now know a lot more about it and so a march style lockdown won't be happening (I assume)

AdamD

ElJeffe wrote: »

Lockdown ala March until end of January (schools, construction etc.. all closed), then level 3 until mid March and see where we are then. I'd argue we'd be in a decent place then with a lot of the at risk vaccinated and we can finally move on from this s**t show.

Closing construction would be utterly mental. Can you see past covid at all? We have other issues in the country. We have a major ****ing housing crisis, but sure lets close construction down.

We're also building a children's hospital..

Hector Savage

leanin2019 wrote: »

NPHET Recommended the Full Level 5 according to Leo if you listen to the full interview

However he implied it would be better to keep to the current restrictions and wait to see if that improves the situation, and that the Full Level 5 may not reduce the cases enough to justify the damage caused by it.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/11267631

No surprise the RTE interviewer wants everyone locked in their homes.

Scumbag making €300k a year, lets see him go on PUP

Scumbag also wants to close schools, they aren't a vector for this, he wants to do untold damage to kids, scumbag safe in his ivory tower...

Mod: 1 week forum ban for breaching threadban

TonyMaloney

KrustyUCC wrote: »

No chance they will close schools and construction like in March

To be fair, they haven't a bloody clue what they are doing.
Picking a set of restrictions for an unknown number of future cases is difficult enough for the experts, so our rank amateur politicians are highly likely to make a meal of it.

I suspect we'll see multiple sets of restrictions as they come to the realisation that they've ****ed up again.

ElJeffe

KrustyUCC wrote: »

No chance they will close schools and construction like in March

Oh i agree but then be prepared for rolling lockdowns until May imo.

I'm suggesting the best way to control the virus not what this government will do.

SEPT 23 1989

Construction can't close too many billions tied up in it and apart from a few outbreaks in March sites are run well Covid safety wise