Covid 19 Part XXX-113,332 ROI(2,282 deaths) 81,251 NI (1,384 deaths) (05/01) Read OP

Stheno

Necro wrote: »

I must admit, Tony Holohan going on and on about being concerned for months has made the actual phrase next to useless.

There's no doubt that we are probably staring into larger numbers than March in the coming 10 days or so.

But the robotic phrases of 'The numbers are concerning' and 'The next two weeks are crucial' have lost all effect because it's the same line trotted out since March.

The lack of transparency has also imo caused people to stop listening along with mixed messaging

Examples - reporting shows no clusters identified in hospitality, yet NPHET shut it down and cannot back up their reasoning

Government guidelines currently allow visits to one other household, yet the CMO tells us not to visit people

There needs to be clear, consistent and concise messaging

Ideally Tony should stay in his office and we get once or twice weekly updates from either Donnelly or Martin

Xaniaj

Necro wrote: »

I must admit, Tony Holohan going on and on about being concerned for months has made the actual phrase next to useless.

There's no doubt that we are probably staring into larger numbers than March in the coming 10 days or so.

But the robotic phrases of 'The numbers are concerning' and 'The next two weeks are crucial' have lost all effect because it's the same line trotted out since March.

Very much the case of The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

stephenjmcd

ElJeffe wrote: »

Restriction fatigue is just a fancy name for selfishness.

Ah come off it, someone can be fed up and tired of restrictions, doesn't exactly mean that their selfish.

I'm completely fed up, if I wanted to be selfish aswell I'd go around to see my 91 year old grandmother but that's not a risk I'm willing to take.

So being fatigued isn't the same thing as being selfish.

Keep in mind before you trot out one liners that not everyone can cope like you can, everyone's circumstances are different.

Ficheall

El Sueño wrote: »

Sure when there were a dozen cases in July Holohan was still "concerned"

When you say the same thing over and over it's inevitable that people will stop listening.

I'd agree on the latter, but would you say Holohan's concerns proved ill-founded? I was concerned in January when we didn't have a single case - "concern" doesn't have to refer to the situation immediately at hand. In fact, it is usually(?) about something that will/might happen in the future.

Happydays2020

Stheno wrote: »

The lack of transparency has also imo caused people to stop listening along with mixed messaging

Examples - reporting shows no clusters identified in hospitality, yet NPHET shut it down and cannot back up their reasoning

Government guidelines currently allow visits to one other household, yet the CMO tells us not to visit people

There needs to be clear, consistent and concise messaging

Ideally Tony should stay in his office and we get once or twice weekly updates from either Donnelly or Martin

Now is the time for leadership with a consistent narrative. All politicians saying the same thing. Focusing on the biggest risks.

crossman47

Stheno wrote: »

Government guidelines currently allow visits to one other household, yet the CMO tells us not to visit people

There needs to be clear, consistent and concise messaging

That is not mixed messaging. Something may be allowed but is still best avoided. Similarly with eating out. It was allowed before Christmas but it was advisable to minimise it.

Bubbaclaus

crossman47 wrote: »

That is not mixed messaging. Something may be allowed but is still best avoided. Similarly with eating out. It was allowed before Christmas but it was advisable to minimise it.

People are treating the limits as a target. Having a limit of interaction with one household doesn't mean you should.

Deeper Blue

Ficheall wrote: »

I'd agree on the latter, but would you say Holohan's concerns proved ill-founded?

Not at all, but trotting out the same line when we had 12 cases as when we had 100 times that probably wasn't the best communication strategy

Benimar

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Ah come off it, someone can be fed up and tired of restrictions, doesn't exactly mean that their selfish.

I'm completely fed up, if I wanted to be selfish aswell I'd go around to see my 91 year old grandmother but that's not a risk I'm willing to take.

So being fatigued isn't the same thing as being selfish.

The thing is even though you (and me) are tired of restrictions, you are still adhering to them.

Those that are using ‘fatigue’ as an excuse/justification for doing things they shouldn’t are being selfish imo.

Anyone having a house party on NYE isn’t ‘fatigued’, they are just being selfish pr1cks.

bb1234567

Anyone else seeing a huge increase in number of people they know testing positive? Mad how COVID can just completely miss your region/area for so long, I didn't know a single person personally who even had COVID until a few weeks ago

stephenjmcd

Benimar wrote: »

The thing is even though you (and me) are tired of restrictions, you are still adhering to them.

Those that are using ‘fatigue’ as an excuse/justification for doing things they shouldn’t are being selfish imo.

Anyone having a house party on NYE isn’t ‘fatigued’, they are just being selfish pr1cks.

Of course but the main point was you can't tar everyone with the same brush, there will always be a minority who never follow anything, such as someone who like you say has a NYE party.

However being fatigued (like most of us are) doesn't automatically mean your selfish, you'll still minimise risk, thats the point.

Plumbthedepths

bb1234567 wrote: »

Anyone else seeing a huge increase in number of people they know testing positive? Mad how COVID can just completely miss your region/area for so long, I didn't know a single person personally who even had COVID until a few weeks ago

I still only know one person who tested positive and she tested positive before the Summer back to work after two weeks.

bb1234567

majcos wrote: »

There were about 880 admitted cases with Covid at one point with 160-170 in ICUs at the peak during the first wave so hospitals can accommodate a lot more patients and they did so in April/May but this comes at other costs as it did earlier in the year.

For example, life-changing operations such as kidney transplants were cancelled for a period. Those potential transplant recipients can still live on dialysis but the quality of life and accumulated complications is vastly higher on dialysis versus having a transplant. Loss of quality of life is hard to measure but very significant for those individuals. Cancer surgeries were delayed and that could have an impact on the outcome and chances of a complete cure, maybe not immediately but perhaps later on.

Taking nurses from one area of hospital to another delays/shuts down the original area. May not see an immediate impact in terms of deaths/excess mortality but a delay in a colonoscopy for example could lead to delay in diagnosis of bowel cancer so it’s found at a later stage and more difficult to cure. Hard to measure those kind of harms as it is hard to know how much of a delay contributes to how much of the disease but those harms are there.

There were some measures taken in April/May which are not sustainable over longer periods.

There are some posters who I wish there was a push notification system for when they posted :P You are a wealth of knowledge!

fits

Xaniaj wrote: »

Very much the case of The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

Yeah so much. That’s why Ireland has had one of the best examples of management of pandemic in Europe. He gets little thanks for it here though

stephenjmcd

bb1234567 wrote: »

Anyone else seeing a huge increase in number of people they know testing positive? Mad how COVID can just completely miss your region/area for so long, I didn't know a single person personally who even had COVID until a few weeks ago

Its odd apart from some I know working in hospitals there's still nobody that I know outside of that setting that's had it. Not even a case amongst work colleagues.

Benimar

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Of course but the main point was you can't tar everyone with the same brush, there will always be a minority who never follow anything, such as someone who like you say has a NYE party.

However being fatigued (like most of us are) doesn't automatically mean your selfish, you'll still minimise risk, thats the point.

Yes, but when ‘fatigue’ is being used to justify less adherence to restrictions (as was the original point to OP was replying to), then that’s selfishness.

Happydays2020

Benimar wrote: »

The thing is even though you (and me) are tired of restrictions, you are still adhering to them.

Those that are using ‘fatigue’ as an excuse/justification for doing things they shouldn’t are being selfish imo.

Anyone having a house party on NYE isn’t ‘fatigued’, they are just being selfish pr1cks.

Except anyone having or think of going to a party this week probably thinks the biggest risk is Brown Thomas and IKEA staying open. The headlines and narrative have been focused on the restrictions we don’t have rather than the ones we have.

fits

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Its odd apart from some I know working in hospitals there's still nobody that I know outside of that setting that's had it. Not even a case amongst work colleagues.

I seem to have gotten away with it but my colleagues organised a do for me ( without my prior knowledge ) on Friday before Xmas. 15 people eating and drinking in a small office. All I could do was open the windows. Was absolutely raging as I’ve been so careful all the time.

Stheno

fits wrote: »

I seem to have gotten away with it but my colleagues organised a do for me ( without my prior knowledge ) on Friday before Xmas. 15 people eating and drinking in a small office. All I could do was open the windows. Was absolutely raging as I’ve been so careful all the time. Completely lost trust in my colleagues that day.

You could have just just left?

Necro

Stheno wrote: »

The lack of transparency has also imo caused people to stop listening along with mixed messaging

Examples - reporting shows no clusters identified in hospitality, yet NPHET shut it down and cannot back up their reasoning

Government guidelines currently allow visits to one other household, yet the CMO tells us not to visit people

There needs to be clear, consistent and concise messaging

Ideally Tony should stay in his office and we get once or twice weekly updates from either Donnelly or Martin

I honestly think a weekly update on case numbers would reduce 'Covid fatigue' by quite a bit.

Happydays2020

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Its odd apart from some I know working in hospitals there's still nobody that I know outside of that setting that's had it. Not even a case amongst work colleagues.

I know of some who had it back in March/April. But no one in the last few months - hopefully stays that way.

Stheno

Necro wrote: »

I honestly think a weekly update on case numbers would reduce 'Covid fatigue' by quite a bit.

Same here one weekly update on case numbers etc, a comparison to previous weeks and that would be enough

eviltimeban

Necro wrote: »

I honestly think a weekly update on case numbers would reduce 'Covid fatigue' by quite a bit.

Or even just release the numbers without the whole press conference. I mean, aren't they sick and tired of having to go in there every day??

awec

Benimar wrote: »

Yes, but when ‘fatigue’ is being used to justify less adherence to restrictions (as was the original point to OP was replying to), then that’s selfishness.

I think "you must comply 100% and if you do not you are selfish" is an unrealistic, simplistic viewpoint to take that lacks any empathy whatsoever for the circumstances and state of people other than yourself.

fits

Stheno wrote: »

You could have just just left?

Easier said than done. I couldn’t without creating bad atmosphere. It was organised for me. Senior mgmt were there. And I’m not in secure position at all.

Bubbaclaus

eviltimeban wrote: »

Or even just release the numbers without the whole press conference. I mean, aren't they sick and tired of having to go in there every day??

They haven't had daily press conferences since June.

bb1234567

eviltimeban wrote: »

Or even just release the numbers without the whole press conference. I mean, aren't they sick and tired of having to go in there every day??

Why do ya feel compelled to watch it? I'm interested in COVID but that's just bloody boring it is, same thing said in a million different ways , I just go on boards to read the updates it's a lot more interesting and personable way of finding out about the news/trend

Happydays2020

fits wrote: »

Easier said than done. I couldn’t without creating bad atmosphere. It was organised for me. Senior mgmt were there. And I’m not in secure position at all.

Given you no longer trust your colleagues, do you think you will probably leave the company now?

Plumbthedepths

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Given you no longer trust your colleagues, do you think you will probably leave the company now?

I’d be surprised if they don’t, that it’s not a secure position should make it an easy decision.

Necro

Stheno wrote: »

Same here one weekly update on case numbers etc, a comparison to previous weeks and that would be enough

That wouldn't satisfy the media is my thinking behind it. I have to say, I hate the fact that RTE et al salivate over everything negative.

Like the vaccine being approved was pushed down so far by the 'UK variant' and other 'sexy' headlines.

They have a lot to do with people being so horribly frustrated with the whole situation in my own view.

Giving Zero-Covid people airtime and hunting down anyone in breach of any restrictions ie: Golfgate - then doing the same themselves and letting it slide with an apology.