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AA insurance scam.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,578 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Another thread where the terms & conditions agreed to weren’t read by the poster.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,525 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    You can definitely get refunded OP. Consumers have rights. Contact them asap.

    Auto renewals are ridiculous btw. Never ever auto renew any insurance, but that's another discussion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45 Helgagirl


    I had an issue with the AA and holiday insurance too. I purchased it for my husband who was going on his first overseas holiday with family members. The following year when it was due to be renewed I received an email, which I tried to cancel, but they still tried to take money from my account. I think I had emailed them a couple of times to try to cancel it, I can't remember the whole story now as this happened a few years ago. They had tried to take the money from my account despite my email, but as I hadn't enough money in my account at the time to cover the fee luckily they got no money from me. My financial situation had changed over the year from when I had originally bought the policy, and I wasn't employed, but in receipt of weekly carer's allowance payments, so it was very stressful that they were trying to take this money. Eventually some of their staff members rang me, but because my name wasn't on the policy despite me being the one who bought the policy, they wouldn't deal with me and would only talk to my husband to get the policy cancelled. As it was my account the money would be coming out from I was rightly peed off that they wouldn't deal with me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,991 ✭✭✭kirving


    Guffy wrote: »
    Its not the AA's fault it went to your spam folder

    ....

    This isn't a scam, it's done across the insurance industry and aims to provide continuity of cover. You should have read the terms and conditions like you had agreed too.

    I would contend that it suits the insurance company for an auto-renewal email to go to spam, and it may be due to them not having their email security up to standard.

    I agree on the continuity of cover which is fair enough. On occasion, VHI have called me to check that I wanted to go through with my renewal for Travel insurance that year.

    (I actually missed 2 call the day before an operation I was having which the health insurance was covering. I returned the call and it took quite a bit of digging on their side to find out why I got a missed call from that office and to confirm it was nothing to do with the operation cover. Gave me a bit of a fright in the interim, but I appreciated their diligence.)


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,507 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    This isn't a scam, thread title is misleading.

    Chargeback will not work. Op, contact them asap to cancel current renewal if possible and see what can be done for the other year/s. If your parents had alternative insurance this will help, otherwise it's purely goodwill.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,858 ✭✭✭The Continental Op


    This isn't a scam, thread title is misleading.

    Chargeback will not work. Op, contact them asap to cancel current renewal if possible and see what can be done for the other year/s. If your parents had alternative insurance this will help, otherwise it's purely goodwill.

    The method of selling is a scam.

    Just because its in the T&C's and its legal doesn't exempt it from being a scam.

    Big companies can scam people just as well as people selling non existent goods on ebay.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,507 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    The method of selling is a scam.

    Just because its in the T&C's and its legal doesn't exempt it from being a scam.

    Big companies can scam people just as well as people selling non existent goods on ebay.

    It's not. It's in the T+C's and the customer is mailed before the renewal, probably twice. There is nothing fraudulent or deceptive about it, you are specifically told it auto renews and you are mailed before that happens nearly a year later.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,578 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    The method of selling is a scam.

    Just because its in the T&C's and its legal doesn't exempt it from being a scam.

    Big companies can scam people just as well as people selling non existent goods on ebay.

    How is it a “scam” if the service provider is doing what the purchaser agreed to in the t&cs?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,902 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    I'm with the AA and its auto renew, however I get an email beforehand.

    Somebody asleep at the wheel, so to speak ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,836 ✭✭✭Ten Pin


    It is possible via html emails where an embedded image (specific to an insurance policy) is contained within the mail template and subsequently loaded when the mail is opened

    ...also used to track the recipient in marketing spam emails. Unique URLs for webpages are used similarly.

    Good practice to disable automatic image loading in email client and don't click URLs in emails, especially URLs with endless random characters.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭Guffy


    ebbsy wrote: »
    I'm with the AA and its auto renew, however I get an email beforehand.

    Somebody asleep at the wheel, so to speak ?

    Ya the insured as he didn't opt out, read his t&c's or his renewal email.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Gooser14


    How is it a scam? Just because you don't properly monitor your finances doesn't make it an AA scam.

    I have virus protection software which defaults to auto renewal. It is up to me to cancel the auto renewal option after I pay the annual subscription.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭Guffy


    I would contend that it suits the insurance company for an auto-renewal email to go to spam, and it may be due to them not having their email security up to standard.

    I agree on the continuity of cover which is fair enough. On occasion, VHI have called me to check that I wanted to go through with my renewal for Travel insurance that year.

    (I actually missed 2 call the day before an operation I was having which the health insurance was covering. I returned the call and it took quite a bit of digging on their side to find out why I got a missed call from that office and to confirm it was nothing to do with the operation cover. Gave me a bit of a fright in the interim, but I appreciated their diligence.)

    Of course they did. They have a list of policyholders who's policies are about to expire or are due to auto renew. When its quiet they will ring you and try to get you to do it over the phone as they are on commission for every person who says "yes, let's run through it now while i have 10 minutes."

    There should have been a note left on your file by the agent advising as to why they rang you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,991 ✭✭✭kirving


    Guffy wrote: »
    they are on commission for every person who says "yes, let's run through it now while i have 10 minutes."

    There should have been a note left on your file by the agent advising as to why they rang you.

    To be fair to them, I had signed up to the auto-renew so they didn't have to call me at all, they did so out of courtesy really.

    Perhaps they didn't leave a note as they never got through. Was just unfortunate timing that had me worried for a while until it was confirmed.

    For a €250 policy, any decent company could make a 5 minute phonecall to confirm, rather than hide behind they legalities of what is written on Page 32, Section 4.8b of the small print. It's just bad business practice IMO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,623 ✭✭✭rock22


    Of course it is a scam. it was well covered on radio a number of years ago. However AA continue with the practice.
    Just because they put it somewhere in their T&C does not mean it is not a scam. it


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,578 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    rock22 wrote: »
    Just because they put it somewhere in their T&C does not mean it is not a scam. it

    A scam involves theft/fraud, how is it a scam if the op’s parents are insured and the payment/renewal were agreed to by the op from the outset? The op confirmed that he/she received the renewal email but unfortunately it went to spam. On a side note, who has a payment for this amount going out of their account fir years without noticing it?

    From CA site:

    “Paying more for something than you think it’s worth isn’t the same as being scammed. Usually, a scam will involve theft or fraud.”


    The title of the thread needs to be changed to remove “scam”, it should really be “I didn’t read the T&Cs when I signed up to a service”


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,809 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    Who2 wrote: »
    I just went into spam emails and there it is a renewal notification. This is a joke

    So you got a renewal notice. Not their fault it went into your spam folder.

    I don't see a problem here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Bikerman2019


    You took out a policy. It was set to auto renew. You agreed to this in the terms and conditions. They sent you a renewal notice, your email client binned it to spam.


    They have done nothing wrong. Jump up and down and scream scam all you want but you are wrong.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,433 ✭✭✭run_Forrest_run


    I love all the perfect posters here pontificating here, while it's not a scam I think the real annoyance is the auto-renewal, could ye at least just admit that and let the OP vent?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,578 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    I love all the perfect posters here pontificating here, while it's not a scam I think the real annoyance is the auto-renewal, could ye at least just admit that and let the OP vent?

    It is by no means pontificating to point out that before complaining about being scammed, read exactly what it is you signed up to.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,991 ✭✭✭kirving


    So you got a renewal notice. Not their fault it went into your spam folder.

    It's very often the fault of the sender that causes emails to be caught by standardized spam filters, in particular Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.

    Spam filters don't work by magic, not are they random at all. If the email fits well understood criteria, it will be marked as Spam and it's very likely that ALL AA renewal notices are caught by the same filter.

    You can be damn sure that the Marketing department in the same company do everything in their power to understand and bypass spam filters.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,578 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    It's very often the fault of the sender that causes emails to be caught by standardized spam filters, in particular Gmail, Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.

    Spam filters don't work by magic, not are they random at all. If the email fits well understood criteria, it will be marked as Spam and it's very likely that ALL AA renewal notices are caught by the same filter.

    You can be damn sure that the Marketing department in the same company do everything in their power to understand and bypass spam filters.

    Has any consumer agency highlighted this supposed dastardly practice of sending emails which will intendedly be directed to spam boxes?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,144 ✭✭✭paddy19


    I'm really tired of the personal responsibility narrative.
    I never seem to hear about corporate responsibility.

    I notice lots of highlights about exceptions in the AA buy page.

    Lots of highlighted bold capitals about Covid and pre existing conditions.
    But auto review gets no bolding and gets the heading Important information.

    "Important Information

    By proceeding with this policy, you are agreeing to authorise the AA to charge the credit/debit card used for this transaction on a recurring annual basis, you also confirm that you have permission of the card holder to authorise a recurring annual payment for purposes of renewing your Travel Insurance Policy. You can withdraw this authorisation at any time by informing the AA."


    How about changing the heading to Important Information.
    In Bold.
    This Policy will auto renew unless you cancel it.

    Just because you bury something in the T&C's does make it right.
    It makes it just about legal.

    If they didn't have auto renew, they would work their ass off to find you.
    They would send multiple emails and check if you were reading them.

    They would have a hell of an incentive to make sure their emails were not been spammed by email providers.

    They would send old fashioned hard copy mails to your address.

    So auto renew incentive is to do the minimum possible to meet the legal requirements and hope the customer doesn't notice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,578 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Like it or not, we live in a digital age where t&cs are there for you to read and you are asked to confirm that you have read them before you enter the agreement. It’s an abdication of responsibility when you tick that box then complain that you didn’t know what the terms are. I say this as someone who is guilty of doing this myself, I’ve never read the t&c’s, recently I got charged for cleanmymac subscription which auto renewed, the MacBook is in a drawer somewhere after it stopped working. Sure enough when I read the t&cs, there is was in plain English. That was my fault, not the service providers.

    Of course the flip side of the op’s situation would be if it didn’t auto renew some years ago and his/her parents had an accident while abroad.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,144 ✭✭✭paddy19


    "It’s an abdication of responsibility "

    I fundamentally and respectfully disagree.
    AA terms and conditions are 80 pages long!
    Who has the time and the law degree to read all this.

    I'd strongly suggest that the AA were less than enthusiastic in highlighting the auto renew requirements on the buy page.

    It's a key requirement.

    They could have broken it out and required a specific tick box so that customer would know what they were signing up to.

    It's buried in a wash of terms and conditions.

    Very easy to miss.

    Very conveniently easy to miss.

    Could it possibly have been designed to be missed?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭Guffy


    paddy19 wrote: »
    "It’s an abdication of responsibility "

    I fundamentally and respectfully disagree.
    AA terms and conditions are 80 pages long!
    Who has the time and the law degree to read all this.

    I'd strongly suggest that the AA were less than enthusiastic in highlighting the auto renew requirements on the buy page.

    It's a key requirement.

    They could have broken it out and required a specific tick box so that customer would know what they were signing up to.

    It's buried in a wash of terms and conditions.

    Very easy to miss.

    Very conveniently easy to miss.

    Could it possibly have been designed to be missed?

    There is no one forcing you to buy the policy. If you don't want to agree to reading the terms and conditions, state so when purchasing the policy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,144 ✭✭✭paddy19


    Guffy wrote: »
    There is no one forcing you to buy the policy. If you don't want to agree to reading the terms and conditions, state so when purchasing the policy.

    Of course nobody is forcing you to buy.

    But it would be rather nice if the AA made very clear what you are buying.

    You're supposed to read and understand all 80 pages?

    They won't accept the purchase if you don't tick the terms and conditions box.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭Guffy


    It's fairly simple language tbf. Anything you don't understand can be cleared up with a phone call.

    But why would you agree to accept them if you can't understand them or don't want to read them?


  • Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's not. It's in the T+C's and the customer is mailed before the renewal, probably twice. There is nothing fraudulent or deceptive about it, you are specifically told it auto renews and you are mailed before that happens nearly a year later.


    Whatever about it not being fraudulent, it most certainly is deceptive.

    Auto-renewal is something the EU should get involved in, and ban outright. It serves no purpose for anyone other than the seller sneaking by another charge for a service that may not be wanted any more.

    Auto-renew is not the norm in most insurance cases (car, home) so it should be spelt out in big, bright letters if they're doing it, not hidden away on page 13 of the 27 pages of terms and conditions, printed in size 4 of the wingdings font.

    I'd bet there are many, many people caught out with this kind of thing year after year.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,578 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Whatever about it not being fraudulent, it most certainly is deceptive.

    Auto-renewal is something the EU should get involved in, and ban outright. It serves no purpose for anyone other than the seller sneaking by another charge for a service that may not be wanted any more.

    Auto-renew is not the norm in most insurance cases (car, home) so it should be spelt out in big, bright letters if they're doing it, not hidden away on page 13 of the 27 pages of terms and conditions, printed in size 4 of the wingdings font.

    I'd bet there are many, many people caught out with this kind of thing year after year.

    Where’s the deception if the buyer agrees to it before purchasing the service?


This discussion has been closed.
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