Another full lockdown looming? - mod warning in OP

JohnCleary

Deleted User wrote: »

To be fair, IBEC have said (Xmas eve in the Irish times I think) that 80-85% of people are better off now after the lockdowns - either their PUP was higher than their income, or they have carried on working (substantially from home) and have increased their savings as no commuting and less socialising. Stories going around today of an expected surge in house prices as these savings are put to work.

The fact is that despite the very vocal nature of those against restrictions, there is no hurry from the majority to move out of them

'Stories' they'll remain, I suspect.

1) Might be saving a few euro on PUP, which is hardly going to give you the savings to buy a house cash
2) One of the banks (Was it AIB?) were putting a halt to mortgage applications for those who went on PUP
3) The PUP will eventually have to end. Some will go back to work, I suspect some also won't

I could be completely wrong, but can't see a surge in house prices based on the above.

MadYaker

weldoninhio wrote: »

But we weren’t hitting breaking point or getting anywhere near it. That’s. The. Point.

You reckon you're in a position to make that call? You must think very highly of yourself.

WoollyRedHat

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Non essential retail is not the problem. Hospitality also a risk but that is now shut down.

The problem is house parties/family gatherings.

Did you mean to reply to me?

WoollyRedHat

weldoninhio wrote: »

But we weren’t hitting breaking point or getting anywhere near it. That’s. The. Point.

Because of preventative measures? Rhetorical question.

WoollyRedHat

Blut2 wrote: »

According to the projected timeline they'll only be starting to vaccinate people in their late 60s in mid-March. And again, thats if anything goes perfectly to plan - which given the way the HSE is run is highly unlikely.

If the government wants to insist that lockdowns are as required as they have been to date then we're going to be in lockdown until the "key workers at high risk" section of the above chart are vaccinated. Which is currently estimated at mid-May, and likely to slip further.

Thats 5+ more months of lockdown. I shudder to think what people's mental states, or the number of missed cancer deaths, or lives ruined from economic loss, or the increase of suicides, will be looking like by then.

You say lockdown, what kind of lockdown. We will not be stuck in a level 5+ lockdown until mid-may unless the variant makes things go seriously south.

dreamers75

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

There will be massive layoffs in 2021 across all sectors.

No there wont.

A lot of companies already purged their useless staff in the summer, there will be hirings and a lot of them.

Certain industries obviously screwed bit not all sectors.

GreeBo

weldoninhio wrote: »

But we weren’t hitting breaking point or getting anywhere near it. That’s. The. Point.

Yeah, because of lockdowns!

Happydays2020

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Did you mean to reply to me?

Yes I did. The theme of the thread is a further lockdown.

My apologies if I misinterpreted your post.

WoollyRedHat

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Yes I did. The theme of the thread is a further lockdown.

Well that's why I'm confused, I didn't mention anything about non-essential retail and neither did person I was replying to.

WoollyRedHat

GreeBo wrote: »

Yeah, because of lockdowns!

I wouldn't mind, but we have exemplary evidence that countries that don't instill preventative measures and adopt laissez-faire approach see significant uptick in cases, with clear evidence of strain on hospital's and inevitably death's, the evidence is laid out in the stats, people are willfully choosing to ignore this with 9 months of substantive data, spread across several continent's... Why?

dreamers75

CorkRed93 wrote: »

Your username is apt.

Work in the Facilities industry, out of 390 customers (small company) 1 has decided to cancel the security/fire services we provide for 2021.

1

Now why would only 1 do that? Cover a large sector of industries.

GreeBo

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

I wouldn't mind, but we have exemplary evidence that countries that don't instill preventative measures and adopt laissez-faire approach see significant uptick in cases, with clear evidence of strain on hospital's and inevitably death's, the evidence is laid out in the stats, people are willfully choosing to ignore this with 9 months of substantive data, spread across several continent's... Why?

Some want us to have the sort of healthcare collapses that we saw in Italy and the US before we take "preventative" measures it seems.
Why they think it would workout any differently in Ireland is beyond me, but a lot of the logic behind what some posters write about covid is beyond me so...

GreeBo

CorkRed93 wrote: »

Pretty much the timeline I've seen a few scientists give. One said it would be November 21 we will be back to normal. Hope he is wrong but hard to see it!

You don't need 100% or anything near it though.
If you have 50% then you win on three factors
1) only half your population can catch it
2) only half your population can readily spread it
3) you are far less likely to overrun your healthcare systems

Bass Reeves

GreeBo wrote: »

You don't need 100% or anything near it though.
If you have 50% then you win on three factors
1) only half your population can catch it
2) only half your population can readily spread it
3) you are far less likely to overrun your healthcare systems

As well as that when you get the high risk category vaccinated and health care workers done you can manage in a level three lockdown. You can stress you hospitals a bit more as staff will not be forced off sick and tired he majority of your high risk area's where you are more at risk of complicating factors nursing homes etc are protected.

Yes you will still need to wear a mask shopping or going into crowed areas. Concerts and clubs may not be open but you can open most other area's with limitations. I am waiting to see the seasonal flu figures in 3-4 weeks time I expect that because of mask wearing and limited interaction these will be well down. I expect that even after lockdown is over there will be a use of Masks to control seasonal viruses such as the flu for the highest risk periods December/ January

weldoninhio

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Because of preventative measures? Rhetorical question.

Because while ‘cases’ were rising quickly, hospitalisations and ICU numbers were not.

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

Its detrimental to a lot of peoples mental health imo

Not being able to meet colleagues, friends or families for weeks and months on end is quite lonely

Those who are not opposed to the restrictions are not immune to the loneliness of not being able to meet colleagues, friends or family.

And on top of that, its also detrimental to mental health to have to constantly listen to foolishness like "if you're high risk, why don't you just stay at home?" when there is a clear lack of understanding that staying isolated is simply not an option for many. Then more foolishness like "the numbers don't matter" when everytime you step outside your front door, the more cases, the greater the odds of coming into contact with someone who is infected. It all wears you down.

The longer this goes on, the more I feel like there is a growing lack of patience and even an air of resentment towards those these restrictions are trying to protect (with the exception of those in nursing homes). I fact, strike that. I think patience was lost long ago, and now its just resentment.

I don't know why there is this impression that those of us who are not anti-restriction are somehow revelling in this or getting some kind of enjoyment out of extensions. Far from it.

I would love nothing more then for mine and everyone's lives to return to normal. To not have to constantly worry about the risk of exposure. I miss my friends and family and my work colleagues like anyone else. I couldn't see my brother over christmas as he works in an essential role which exposes him to hundreds of people every day. We agreed there is always next year, pg because it was the sensible thing to do.

So please try and remember this, when next time you (generic you) are accusing those who are not opposed to restrictions continuing, of taking pleasure in any of this. We're not trying to spoil anyone's fun. We're just trying to stay well.

Stheno

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So please try and remember this, when next time you (generic you) are accusing those who are not opposed to restrictions continuing, of taking pleasure in any of this. We're not trying to spoil anyone's fun. We're just trying to stay well.

What would be nice to see we from you (generic you) who want ongoing restrictions due to being at risk, would be some appreciation of the effort and sacrifices of the large proportion of the low risk population who have complied with restrictions to protect you

Instead you (generic you) seem hell bent on refusing to acknowledge that and brandishing everyone as anti restrictions

You seriously want us to believe that you can't get groceries delivered and you live in Dublin?

zerosugarbuzz

Deleted User wrote: »

Those who are not opposed to the restrictions are not immune to the loneliness of not being able to meet colleagues, friends or family.

And on top of that, its also detrimental to mental health to have to constantly listen to foolishness like "if you're high risk, why don't you just stay at home?" when there is a clear lack of understanding that staying isolated is simply not an option for many. Then more foolishness like "the numbers don't matter" when everytime you step outside your front door, the more cases, the greater the odds of coming into contact with someone who is infected. It all wears you down.

The longer this goes on, the more I feel like there is a growing lack of patience and even an air of resentment towards those these restrictions are trying to protect (with the exception of those in nursing homes). I fact, strike that. I think patience was lost long ago, and now its just resentment.

I don't know why there is this impression that those of us who are not anti-restriction are somehow revelling in this or getting some kind of enjoyment out of extensions. Far from it.

I would love nothing more then for mine and everyone's lives to return to normal. To not have to constantly worry about the risk of exposure. I miss my friends and family and my work colleagues like anyone else. I couldn't see my brother over christmas as he works in an essential role which exposes him to hundreds of people every day. We agreed there is always next year, pg because it was the sensible thing to do.

So please try and remember this, when next time you (generic you) are accusing those who are not opposed to restrictions continuing, of taking pleasure in any of this. We're not trying to spoil anyone's fun. We're just trying to stay well.

I agree with you that there is a growing resentment against people like yourself who are in favor of keeping the restrictions in place for everyone. I think what you are failing to grasp is while we do have sympathy for someone in your position, we fail to see why we should have to join you in isolating ourselves, when we and our close contacts are not high risk or any risk really. It comes across like you think because you cant get on with your life you don't want anyone else to get on with theirs either, not until its safe for you at any rate. That in my view is why the resentment is building against your position.

Gooser14

GreeBo wrote:

You don't need 100% or anything near it though. If you have 50% then you win on three factors 1) only half your population can catch it 2) only half your population can readily spread it 3) you are far less likely to overrun your healthcare systems

I don't think there is any evidence yet that the vaccine prevents one from being a carrier/spreader of the virus. It will prevent most people from being infected.

Blut2

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

You say lockdown, what kind of lockdown. We will not be stuck in a level 5+ lockdown until mid-may unless the variant makes things go seriously south.

Leo Varadkar disagrees with you:

"Varadkar says Level 5 restrictions could remain until most at-risk vaccinated" -- https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/varadkar-says-level-5-restrictions-could-remain-until-most-at-risk-vaccinated-1.4446446

Stheno

Blut2 wrote: »

Leo Varadkar disagrees with you:

"Varadkar says Level 5 restrictions could remain until most at-risk vaccinated" -- https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/varadkar-says-level-5-restrictions-could-remain-until-most-at-risk-vaccinated-1.4446446

Thats mid March hopefully

Say March 18th

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

You seriously want us to believe that you can't get groceries delivered and you live in Dublin?

What reason would I have to lie about it? What could I possibly gain from making it up?

I'm not going to disclose where I live in Dublin just to satisfy your skepticism.

But thanks for implying that I am not being truthful on top of everything else.

Stheno

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What reason would I have to lie about it? What could I possibly gain from making it up?

I'm not going to disclose where I live in Dublin just to satisfy your skepticism.

But thanks for implying that I am not being truthful on top of everything else.

Its simply unbelievable is all

Supervalu, Tesco, Lidl and Dunnes all do home deliveries.

And I see again no acknowledgement by you of other peoples efforts on behalf of people like you

Sickening tbh

Blut2

Stheno wrote: »

Thats mid March hopefully

Say March 18th

Its not mid-March.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=115719098#post115719098

Mid-May is what its currently estimated at to have the high risk population vaccinated by. And thats if everything goes perfectly to plan, which its highly unlikely to - you can probably add a month to that, at least.

zerosugarbuzz

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

I agree with you that there is a growing resentment against people like yourself who are in favor of keeping the restrictions in place for everyone. I think what you are failing to grasp is while we do have sympathy for someone in your position, we fail to see why we should have to join you in isolating ourselves, when we and our close contacts are not high risk or any risk really. It comes across like you think because you cant get on with your life you don't want anyone else to get on with theirs either, not until its safe for you at any rate. That in my view is why the resentment is building against your position.

And as has been discussed at length earlier in the thread, not everyone who is high risk is in a position where they can isolate themselves. There are high risk people who have to work outside the home, who have kids to bring to school, or are caring for others at risk - basically they have to interact in society.

What you say you are failing to see is not complicated, the reason is simple. Community transmission. More contacts leads to more cases leads to more transmission leads to increased risk of exposure to those in the vulnerable groups.

Anyway, I'm going around in circles here. You either get it, or you don't. I hope everyone makes it through this safe and well, as at the end of the day, if you don't have your health, you have nothing. The rest you can get over.

Stheno

Blut2 wrote: »

Its not mid-March.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=115719098#post115719098

Mid-May is what its currently estimated at to have the high risk population vaccinated by. And thats if everything goes perfectly to plan, which its highly unlikely to - you can probably add a month to that, at least.

Ah i was basing it on nursing homes and healthcare workers only

Can't see level 5 lasting till mid May tbh

zerosugarbuzz

Deleted User wrote: »

What reason would I have to lie about it? What could I possibly gain from making it up?

I'm not going to disclose where I live in Dublin just to satisfy your skepticism.

But thanks for implying that I am not being truthful on top of everything else.

In fairness it is hard to believe you couldn't get groceries delivered. On top of all the Supermarkets that offer delivery there is a plethora of charities and community groups tripping over themselves to offer these services to anyone in need.

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

What would be nice to see we from you (generic you) who want ongoing restrictions due to being at risk, would be some appreciation of the effort and sacrifices of the large proportion of the low risk population who have complied with restrictions to protect you

Instead you (generic you) seem hell bent on refusing to acknowledge that and brandishing everyone as anti restrictions

You seriously want us to believe that you can't get groceries delivered and you live in Dublin?

It's not a them and us situation. There are guidelines for the entire population..... I couldn't give two fncks who's appreciative of me for following them.
I'll follow them as a fit & able bodied young enough person who doesn't want to catch covid. In saying that I've gone to work every day since March so I'm not being a hermit either.

zerosugarbuzz

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

In fairness it is hard to believe you couldn't get groceries delivered. On top of all the Supermarkets that offer delivery there is a plethora of charities and community groups tripping over themselves to offer these services to anyone in need.

Fine. Another one calling me a liar.

I'm out.

Stheno

Augeo wrote: »

It's not a them and us situation. There are guidelines for the entire population..... I couldn't give two fncks who's appreciative of me for following them.
I'll follow them as a fit & able bodied young enough person who doesn't want to catch covid. In saying that I've gone to work every day since March so I'm not being a hermit either.

I agree its not a them and us, and have complied with the restrictions

What I'm sick of is the extremists on both viewpoints who twist what people say