Another full lockdown looming? - mod warning in OP

SCOOP 64

99nsr125 wrote: »

Construction stays open

As will hundreds of other business slightly associated with it.

Blut2

faceman wrote: »

Tangent point. In the daily briefings I’d love to now see daily stats on number of vaccines administered and number of vaccines stockpiled

I'd love to see that too, and think it would be very enlightening. I wouldn't hold out hope though.

Israel only started vaccinations on December 20th and as of yesterday had vaccinated over 9% of the population. They've got a population of under 9million (not too far off Ireland's), but are doing 150,000 vaccinations a day.



They're going to have the entire country vaccinated by January 31st, and plan on fully reopening the country at the start of February. A full 10 months ahead of the Irish government's schedule.

Ireland's lackluster figures being publicly announced every day, as other countries speed ahead with their programs, will only serve to show up our government's incompetence.

ixoy

Blut2 wrote: »

Ireland's lackluster figures being publicly announced every day, as other countries speed ahead with their programs, will only serve to show up our government's incompetence.

We've an upper limit on how many we can vaccinate that's pretty much out of our control.
What we can do, and hopefully will not need to, is ensure that all doses are used and no backlogs start building up that aren't part of a defined plan (e.g. for the second dose). That's the bit that's with the HSE now and no excuses should be tolerated.

Blut2

ixoy wrote: »

We've an upper limit on how many we can vaccinate that's pretty much out of our control.
What we can do, and hopefully will not need to, is ensure that all doses are used and no backlogs start building up that aren't part of a defined plan (e.g. for the second dose). That's the bit that's with the HSE now and no excuses should be tolerated.

If Israel gets their entire comparably sized country vaccinated in 6 weeks, and the Irish government takes 11 months to do for us, there are a huge number of factors in that delay very much within our control. And serious questions will have to be asked of our government.

faceman

Blut2 wrote: »

I'd love to see that too, and think it would be very enlightening. I wouldn't hold out hope though.

Israel only started vaccinations on December 20th and as of yesterday had vaccinated over 9% of the population. They've got a population of under 9million (not too far off Ireland's), but are doing 150,000 vaccinations a day.



They're going to have the entire country vaccinated by January 31st, and plan on fully reopening the country at the start of February. A full 10 months ahead of the Irish government's schedule.

Ireland's lackluster figures being publicly announced every day, as other countries speed ahead with their programs, will only serve to show up our government's incompetence.

Israel planned this. They paid a premium with Pfizer for delivery for 500,000 vaccines a week. They are, for all intents and purposes, the only country walking the talk.

Remember the Irish government said “it’s not about speed”

There’s context

Golfman64

faceman wrote: »

Further reason to knock the whole house party argument on the head.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/two-thirds-of-covid-deaths-in-december-linked-to-outbreaks-in-hospitals-and-nursing-homes-39917924.html

Ssshhh, it’s the house parties, walks 6km from your house, golf courses and tennis courts that are the real issue along with non essential retail in controlled environments with everyone wearing masks!

99nsr125

John O.Groats wrote: »

Night curfews, regular gardai and army patrols/checkpoints on streets of the larger cities and towns, drone surveillance to name a few.

Jesus Christ

Charles Babbage

Blut2 wrote: »

If Israel gets their entire comparably sized country vaccinated in 6 weeks, and the Irish government takes 11 months to do for us, there are a huge number of factors in that delay very much within our control. And serious questions will have to be asked of our government.

Where did Israel get the vaccines to do it in 6 weeks?
The Irish government will not take 11 months Vaccination will speed up.

ShineOn7

John O.Groats wrote: »

Night curfews, regular gardai and army patrols/checkpoints on streets of the larger cities and towns, drone surveillance to name a few.

While the Drone stuff is a bit silly I'm not sure why others are disregarding the rest of your post

In many parts of Spain the first 2 on your list (at least) are happening. Curfews at 10pm and police walking around the street making sure masks are on is very much evident in Tenerife (as just one example) right now

"We don't have enough Guards" is as inexcusable as "We dont have enough ICU beds"

As I've already said, this pandemic has exposed many things in Ireland that people simply accepted before 2020

The country is an embarrassment

Blut2

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Where did Israel get the vaccines to do it in 6 weeks?
The Irish government will not take 11 months Vaccination will speed up.

The same place every country is getting theirs - direct from the manufacturers. Its not some mystery, or black market.

The Irish government's most optimistic assessment is we'll be finished vaccinating the country by mid-December 2021...

faceman wrote: »

Remember the Irish government said “it’s not about speed”

There’s context

Yeah sure why would speed matter. Its not like people are dying every day from corona. Or the economy is being destroyed by these lockdowns. Sure why not just take things nice and relaxed, no rush.

Thats an awful excuse for their incompetency.

khalessi

Blut2 wrote: »

The same place every country is getting theirs - direct from the manufacturers. Its not some mystery, or black market.

The Irish government's most optimistic assessment is we'll be finished vaccinating the country by mid-December 2021...






Yeah sure why would speed matter. Its not like people are dying every day from corona. Or the economy is being destroyed by these lockdowns. Sure why not just take things nice and relaxed, no rush.

Thats an awful excuse for their incompetency.

They already rolled Min for Justice out to say more then likely it wont be completed in a year. Didn't let Donnelly near that statement in case he would bring trampolines back up

faceman

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Where did Israel get the vaccines to do it in 6 weeks?
The Irish government will not take 11 months Vaccination will speed up.

Israel agreed a premium rate for delivery of 500k vaccines per week. They have a population of 8m.

Meanwhile the Irish government has said its not about speed....

****

Bass Reeves

faceman wrote: »

Israel agreed a premium rate for delivery of 500k vaccines per week. They have a population of 8m.

Meanwhile the Irish government has said its not about speed....

****

The EU adopted a one bid proc as for the whole of the EU. Like the US they in reality funded the vaccination program. They agreed pre sale agreements with different vaccine makers to produce vaccines some of those contacted have not yet got viable vaccines.
If all countries adopted Israel's attitude of waiting and seeing and then paying a premium for to get access we might still be waiting for a viable vaccine.
As well if we had not promised guaranteed purchase of product less vaccines would have been developed. If every country adopted the selfish attitude of Israel we be paying multiples for vaccines as supply is limited. We see Trump trying to implement a USA first for vaccine supply.

Some lads want to live life inside a box. Never look outside it. They are the ****

faceman

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The EU adopted a one bid proc as for the whole of the EU. Like the US they in reality funded the vaccination program. They agreed pre sale agreements with different vaccine makers to produce vaccines some of those contacted have not yet got viable vaccines.
If all countries adopted Israel's attitude of waiting and seeing and then paying a premium for to get access we might still be waiting for a viable vaccine.
As well if we had not promised guaranteed purchase of product less vaccines would have been developed. If every country adopted the selfish attitude of Israel we be paying multiples for vaccines as supply is limited. We see Trump trying to implement a USA first for vaccine supply.

Some lads want to live life inside a box. Never look outside it. They are the ****

Yeah cool bro. Be happy with the government approach of treating the most serious global issues in the history of our lifetimes as something they will deal with it Monday to Friday 9 to 5 per the vaccine roll out plan.

For the rest of us, we will demand better

GreeBo

Blut2 wrote: »

Ireland's lackluster figures being publicly announced every day, as other countries speed ahead with their programs, will only serve to show up our government's incompetence.

You also happy for the mandatory insurance cards for everyone over 18, the 3 severe lockdowns they had, not to mention the compulsory military service?

We couldn't even get people to pay for using excess water.

There are also a few Palestinians living in the Gaza strip who won't be getting the vaccine, it's purely a political move by netanyahu to get re-elected in s couple of months.

GreeBo

faceman wrote: »

Yeah cool bro. Be happy with the government approach of treating the most serious global issues in the history of our lifetimes as something they will deal with it Monday to Friday 9 to 5 per the vaccine roll out plan.

For the rest of us, we will demand better

Ah you mean doing it in a sustainable manner?

Let's do 24x7 for the next 6 months and see how many burnouts and mistakes that leads to shall we?
Not to mention that we have neither the people not the vaccines to support 24x7 ...

GreeBo

faceman wrote: »

Israel agreed a premium rate for delivery of 500k vaccines per week. They have a population of 8m.

Meanwhile the Irish government has said its not about speed....

****

A lot of love for the Israeli government all of a sudden... You align with everything they do or just cherry pick to suit your anti Ireland narrative?

Just Saying

faceman wrote: »

Yeah cool bro. Be happy with the government approach of treating the most serious global issues in the history of our lifetimes as something they will deal with it Monday to Friday 9 to 5 per the vaccine roll out plan.

For the rest of us, we will demand better

Where did the poster mention Monday to Friday 9 to 5..I seem to have missed It?

AdamD

GreeBo wrote: »

You also happy for the mandatory insurance cards for everyone over 18, the 3 severe lockdowns they had, not to mention the compulsory military service?

We couldn't even get people to pay for using excess water.

There are also a few Palestinians living in the Gaza strip who won't be getting the vaccine, it's purely a political move by netanyahu to get re-elected in s couple of months.

Jeez I wouldn't mind if someone made a political move here and vaccinated us all

Bass Reeves

AdamD wrote: »

Jeez I wouldn't mind if someone made a political move here and vaccinated us all

What if Germany, France, Sweden, Holland etc broke ranks from the EU plan. Where would that let us. Lets say we even decided to break ranks, be the idiot after the EU stood by us in Brexit.

Thinking inside the box again

Melanchthon

Bass Reeves wrote: »

What if Germany, France, Sweden, Holland etc broke ranks from the EU plan. Where would that let us. Lets say we even decided to break ranks, be the idiot after the EU stood by us in Brexit.

Thinking inside the box again

Germany already did break ranks right by procuring more of the Pfizer vacine outside the EU scheme. Guess what they are fine.

Bass Reeves

Melanchthon wrote: »

Germany already did break ranks right by procuring more of the Pfizer vacine outside the EU scheme. Guess what they are fine.

Germany spend 750 million on vaccine developments outside EU spend . It seems to have targeted three companies German based. Two are completely outside the EU procurement process AFAIK. Neither of these have a viable vaccine at present. Its side deal with Phizer will yes give it extra vaccines. However if all its deals cone through it has 300 million doses along with its EU procured supply for a population of 83 million. The EU has procured about double the supply the EU requires. Germany will priotize extra supply to EU nations . After that both it and the EU have indicated that excess supply will be directed to the 3rd word nations
It was mostly about financing development of vaccines Germany's contracts were offered after the EU contracted its supply so it did not break ranks. It offered extra incentives to drug companies so e of which are still in development of a vaccine.

Realt Dearg Sec

GreeBo wrote: »

A lot of love for the Israeli government all of a sudden... You align with everything they do or just cherry pick to suit your anti Ireland narrative?

Wouldn't the rational thing to do be too criticise a government for things they do that you think are wrong and praise things they agree with? I'm not clear what your problem is with someone doing that. Rapid distribution of vaccine=good, expansion of illegal settlements under international law= bad. Fairly simple.

GreeBo

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Wouldn't the rational thing to do be too criticise a government for things they do that you think are wrong and praise things they agree with? I'm not clear what your problem is with someone doing that. Rapid distribution of vaccine=good, expansion of illegal settlements under international law= bad. Fairly simple.

But they are achieving the rapid distribution on the back of decisions that wouldn't stand in Ireland, Id cards, military service, ignoring a whole section of the population for political reasons.

You can't just isolate one nice bit and compare us to them!

faceman

GreeBo wrote: »

Ah you mean doing it in a sustainable manner?

Let's do 24x7 for the next 6 months and see how many burnouts and mistakes that leads to shall we?
Not to mention that we have neither the people not the vaccines to support 24x7 ...

Do you work in the civil service or something? Your attitude doesn't seem to want to treat the worst crisis the EU has faced in our lifetime with any sense of priority. I certainly wouldn't hire you.

The HSE launched a massive recruitment drive in Q2 last year to cope with increased demands on healthcare. We have known about this vaccine for months. What additional resourcing have we put in place to accommodate the rollout? We have even had private enterprise offer support to the government - has that even been considered? We have ample healthcare staff around the country who can administer vaccines.

There really is no excuse for stalled or delayed vaccine rollouts and to suggest burnout is pathetic and short sighted.

GreeBo wrote: »

A lot of love for the Israeli government all of a sudden... You align with everything they do or just cherry pick to suit your anti Ireland narrative?

I did no such thing. A poster asked how Israel is administering so many vaccines per week and I gave some background. Ireland is part of the EU scheme so we can accelerate receipt of vaccines but we can accelerate rollout out.

Just Saying wrote: »

Where did the poster mention Monday to Friday 9 to 5..I seem to have missed It?

He didn't, but its been covered in the media. Here's an excerpt.

https://pasteboard.co/JHBoGBc.jpg

GreeBo

faceman wrote: »

Do you work in the civil service or something? Your attitude doesn't seem to want to treat the worst crisis the EU has faced in our lifetime with any sense of priority. I certainly wouldn't hire you.

That's it, attack the poster rather than the post.

The HSE launched a massive recruitment drive in Q2 last year to cope with increased demands on healthcare. We have known about this vaccine for months. What additional resourcing have we put in place to accommodate the rollout? We have even had private enterprise offer support to the government - has that even been considered? We have ample healthcare staff around the country who can administer vaccines.

There really is no excuse for stalled or delayed vaccine rollouts and to suggest burnout is pathetic and short sighted.

And how many people on that drive brought their own -70*C freezers with them? How many people were actually hired in that drive? Do you expect the HSE to hire people in advance of a pandemic just in case it happens? Who pays for this?
Where do we actually get these people from? At a guess I'd say there is a fair bit of demand all over the world for healthcare workers, yet you somehow think little old Ireland should be leading the way?

Do healthcare workers are immune from burnout now? How is this exactly? How do they avoid it if you want them working 24x7? How do we avoid mistakes like we have already seen in other countries?

,

I did no such thing. A poster asked how Israel is administering so many vaccines per week and I gave some background. Ireland is part of the EU scheme so we can accelerate receipt of vaccines but we can accelerate rollout out.



He didn't, but its been covered in the media. Here's an excerpt.

https://pasteboard.co/JHBoGBc.jpg

Yeah, maybe don't hitch your wagon to draft documentation in future? That was the plan for when they had a tiny number of vaccinations and a small target group.

https://twitter.com/DonnellyStephen/status/1344687881055559681?s=20

faceman

GreeBo wrote: »

That's it, attack the poster rather than the post.

That was most certainly not a personal attack

wrote:

And how many people on that drive brought their own -70*C freezers with them? How many people were actually hired in that drive? Do you expect the HSE to hire people in advance of a pandemic just in case it happens? Who pays for this?
Where do we actually get these people from? At a guess I'd say there is a fair bit of demand all over the world for healthcare workers, yet you somehow think little old Ireland should be leading the way?

Do healthcare workers are immune from burnout now? How is this exactly? How do they avoid it if you want them working 24x7? How do we avoid mistakes like we have already seen in other countries?

You’re very quick to jump “computer says no” answers as if we must live in perpetual cycle of misery.

You’d have to ask the hse for the latest figures but there have been plenty of stories in the media of nurses and other healthcare officials who had applied for the roles but didn’t get hired. There has been a huge question mark over the numbers hired and whether they were needed anyway.

But the hiring drive is still ongoing. CPL Recruitment are managing it.

As for burnout, I can cite numerous hospitals in Ireland where at times during the last 9 months had less patients than normal. Until recently Waterford hospital for example rarely had covid patients. I can also name a hospital in Dublin that for an extended period had more staff than patients. Where is the burnout?

wrote:

Yeah, maybe don't hitch your wagon to draft documentation in future? That was the plan for when they had a tiny number of vaccinations and a small target group.

https://twitter.com/DonnellyStephen/status/1344687881055559681?s=20

I hadn’t seen that and clearly its updated as of yesterday evening going by the date. But is that sustained or just for this weekend? I bet it’s not sustained. If a 7 day a week plan is in place than that’s great news for everyone. Undermines your own arguments about burnout though :pac:

Just Saying

faceman wrote: »

Do you work in the civil service or something? Your attitude doesn't seem to want to treat the worst crisis the EU has faced in our lifetime with any sense of priority. I certainly wouldn't hire you.

The HSE launched a massive recruitment drive in Q2 last year to cope with increased demands on healthcare. We have known about this vaccine for months. What additional resourcing have we put in place to accommodate the rollout? We have even had private enterprise offer support to the government - has that even been considered? We have ample healthcare staff around the country who can administer vaccines.

There really is no excuse for stalled or delayed vaccine rollouts and to suggest burnout is pathetic and short sighted.



I did no such thing. A poster asked how Israel is administering so many vaccines per week and I gave some background. Ireland is part of the EU scheme so we can accelerate receipt of vaccines but we can accelerate rollout out.



He didn't, but its been covered in the media. Here's an excerpt.

https://pasteboard.co/JHBoGBc.jpg

I'm aware of what's in the media.My point is why did you reply with a condensing "cool bro" and then proceed to mention something regarding the rollout which had absolutely nothing to do with his reply?

khalessi

In regards to the recruitment drive that was launched, a huge amount answered Irelands call and most were only contracted for a short period and let go then. It was very shortsighted of the government.

Also the healthcare was shorthanded to start with and with the numbers out sick from Covid etc there is not much left over.

Blut2

GreeBo wrote: »

But they are achieving the rapid distribution on the back of decisions that wouldn't stand in Ireland, Id cards, military service, ignoring a whole section of the population for political reasons.

You can't just isolate one nice bit and compare us to them!

Jeese you've really drunk the Fine Gael/Fianna Fail koolaid if your response to "another country is vaccinating 20 times more people per capita every day than Ireland, maybe our government isn't doing such a great job" is "they have NATIONAL ID CARDS!!" or "they have military service!!". Its pure deflection.

The issue here is our government showing themselves to be slow and inept when we look at what other, poorer countries, are achieving. The HSE is aiming to vaccinate 20,000 people in Ireland next week. Israel will be vaccinating 1million people in the same time frame. And, again, its a country of less than twice our size, thats poorer than us.

Heads need to be rolling at the slowness of our vaccine roll out.