Another full lockdown looming? - mod warning in OP

GreeBo

faceman wrote: »

That was most certainly not a personal attack

So when you said "i certainly wouldn't hire you" you meant in the general sense? :rolleyes:

You’re very quick to jump “computer says no” answers as if we must live in perpetual cycle of misery.

No, I'm quick to base things on facts rather than your "Ireland are crap" hysteria.

You’d have to ask the hse for the latest figures but there have been plenty of stories in the media of nurses and other healthcare officials who had applied for the roles but didn’t get hired. There has been a huge question mark over the numbers hired and whether they were needed anyway.

But the hiring drive is still ongoing. CPL Recruitment are managing it.

So you want to hire the people that were deemed unsuitable previously?

As for burnout, I can cite numerous hospitals in Ireland where at times during the last 9 months had less patients than normal. Until recently Waterford hospital for example rarely had covid patients. I can also name a hospital in Dublin that for an extended period had more staff than patients. Where is the burnout?

The burnout comes from 24x7 in a small, lie density country like ours.

I hadn’t seen that and clearly its updated as of yesterday evening going by the date. But is that sustained or just for this weekend? I bet it’s not sustained. If a 7 day a week plan is in place than that’s great news for everyone. Undermines your own arguments about burnout though :pac:

Yeah, it's the actual facts rather than the *draft* report you based your outrage on.

No, 7 days a week can still be sustainable, but not if it's 24 hours per day... Not terribly complicated to understand I would have thought?

GreeBo

Blut2 wrote: »

Jeese you've really drunk the Fine Gael/Fianna Fail koolaid if your response to "another country is vaccinating 20 times more people per capita every day than Ireland, maybe our government isn't doing such a great job" is "they have NATIONAL ID CARDS!!" or "they have military service!!". Its pure deflection.

The issue here is our government showing themselves to be slow and inept when we look at what other, poorer countries, are achieving. The HSE is aiming to vaccinate 20,000 people in Ireland next week. Israel will be vaccinating 1million people in the same time frame. And, again, its a country of less than twice our size, thats poorer than us.

Heads need to be rolling at the slowness of our vaccine roll out.

Eh, they are relying on the things you throw your eyes at to do the vaccinations so quickly?

Blut2

GreeBo wrote: »

Eh, they are relying on the things you throw your eyes at to do the vaccinations so quickly?

And how exactly does having a national ID card allow them to vaccinate 20 times more people a day than Ireland? Is Ireland's lack of ID card the one thing holding us back from attaining such numbers? Someone should tell the HSE asap.

Get over it, its our government being incompetent. More preparation should have been done months ago to allow for a more rapid rollout now.

Its the exact same reason our test & trace system is now failing, 9+ months into the pandemic... because of horrific government planning.

GreeBo

Blut2 wrote: »

And how exactly does having a national ID card allow them to vaccinate 20 times more people a day than Ireland? Is Ireland's lack of ID card the one thing holding us back from attaining such numbers? Someone should tell the HSE asap.

No, is not "the" one thing but it's a thing that helps.
Probably the fact that they have a huge military population to draw on helps?
Probably spending multiples over the odds to get access to more vaccine then Ireland helps?
Probably being 1/3rd the size of Ireland but with twice the population helps?
Probably effectively banning anti fax crap helps?
Probably threating to rollout green cards helps?
Probably having a median age of 30 helps?

But no, no, it's just the HSE being useless.

Melanchthon

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Its side deal with Phizer will yes give it extra vaccines. However if all its deals cone through it has 300 million doses along with its EU procured supply for a population of 83 million. .

And this is the important part of your post in relation to post I was replying to. Germany obtained a side deal with Pfizer and it is fine which counters the argument that as good Europeans we could not do this!

“The accounts don’t add up,” Italian virologist Roberto Burioni said on Twitter, pointing to reports in Germany that first-day deliveries had totalled more than 150,000 doses while other EU countries got just 10,000.

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An official familiar with vaccine distribution in Germany said that each of the 16 German federal states had received 10,000 doses of the Pfizer vaccine ahead of the weekend start of the inoculation drive.

An Italian reporter asked about the supplies at a German government news conference. An official from the German health ministry replied that Berlin had signed a separate deal for 30 million extra doses of the Pfizer vaccine

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-europe-vaccines/eus-marathon-covid-vaccination-drive-off-to-uneven-start-idUKKBN2921F7

Blut2

GreeBo wrote: »

No, is not "the" one thing but it's a thing that helps.
Probably the fact that they have a huge military population to draw on helps?
Probably spending multiples over the odds to get access to more vaccine then Ireland helps?
Probably being 1/3rd the size of Ireland but with twice the population helps?
Probably effectively banning anti fax crap helps?
Probably threating to rollout green cards helps?
Probably having a median age of 30 helps?

But no, no, it's just the HSE being useless.

Ireland isn't using any of its military to help - so our lower military staff numbers aren't retarding our vaccine rollout in any way.
Israel spending over the odds to get more vaccine than Ireland is a perfect example of our government failing. We're a much richer country, why aren't we doing similar?
Ireland's population density isn't an influence in our vaccine rollout at all. Its not Siberia. We're a densely populated, developed infrastructure, small country.
I've no idea what "anti fax crap" is
Irish politicians are on the record with similar musings over vaccination cards, but neither government has implemented anything. And vaccine take-up in either country is not being limited by public take-up currently.
How does Ireland's median age of 38 influence the vaccine rollout vs Israels of 30?

And you still haven't explained exactly how having a national ID card allows Israel to vaccinate 20 times more people per day than Ireland?

You're desperately trying to find excuses. When the facts speak for themselves: our vaccine rollout plan is incomprehensibly slow. By the HSE's own plans we won't be finished until mid-December 2021. A full 10 months behind Israel, and many months behind other countries.

The HSE and FF&FG have failed to develop an adequate vaccination plan, and questions need to be asked why.

The same questions that need to be asked as to why our test & trace system is now failing this week. Its shocking incompetence given the sacrifices the country has made to grant this time.

GreeBo

Blut2 wrote: »

Ireland isn't using any of its military to help - so our lower military staff numbers aren't retarding our vaccine rollout in any way.
Israel spending over the odds to get more vaccine than Ireland is a perfect example of our government failing. We're a much richer country, why aren't we doing similar?
Ireland's population density isn't an influence in our vaccine rollout at all. Its not Siberia. We're a densely populated, developed infrastructure, small country.
I've no idea what "anti fax crap" is
Irish politicians are on the record with similar musings over vaccination cards, but neither government has implemented anything. And vaccine take-up in either country is not being limited by public take-up currently.
How does Ireland's median age of 38 influence the vaccine rollout vs Israels of 30?

And you still haven't explained exactly how having a national ID card allows Israel to vaccinate 20 times more people per day than Ireland?

You're desperately trying to find excuses. When the facts speak for themselves: our vaccine rollout plan is incomprehensibly slow. By the HSE's own plans we won't be finished until mid-December 2021. A full 10 months behind Israel, and many months behind other countries.

The HSE and FF&FG have failed to develop an adequate vaccination plan, and questions need to be asked why.

The same questions that need to be asked as to why our test & trace system is now failing this week. Its shocking incompetence given the sacrifices the country has made to grant this time.

Ireland is a much richer country then Israel?

You have conveniently ignored their median age and huge population density difference... Funny that.

Blut2

GreeBo wrote: »

Ireland is a much richer country then Israel?

You have conveniently ignored their median age and huge population density difference... Funny that.

Yes? Ireland's GDP per capita is 200% that of Israel's. We are a much, much wealthier country.

How is Ireland's (very high) population density limiting our roll out of the vaccine exactly?

How is Ireland's median age of 38 negatively influencing our speed of vaccine roll out?

Why can't you admit our government is not performing competently?

Cuttlefish

Quick question

Can you visit a grave of a relative in another county?

My fathers 1st anniversary is Sunday and the anniversary mass (along with all masses) has been cancelled however i would still like to travel from the county where I live to his grave which is in another county

I know gov.ie mentions you can however I could anticipate being stopped by told no

What ye think?

expectationlost

do we need a level 6

are just more enforcement of level 5?

Jinglejangle69

expectationlost wrote: »

do we need a level 6

No.

khalessi

Cuttlefish wrote: »

Quick question

Can you visit a grave of a relative in another county?

My fathers 1st anniversary is Sunday and the anniversary mass (along with all masses) has been cancelled however i would still like to travel from the county where I live to his grave which is in another county

I know gov.ie mentions you can however I could anticipate being stopped by told no

What ye think?

There was somethimg mentioned about graves in one of the announcements and I think in previous lockdown visiting graves was allowed.

zerosugarbuzz

Cuttlefish wrote: »

Quick question

Can you visit a grave of a relative in another county?

My fathers 1st anniversary is Sunday and the anniversary mass (along with all masses) has been cancelled however i would still like to travel from the county where I live to his grave which is in another county

I know gov.ie mentions you can however I could anticipate being stopped by told no

What ye think?

You were able to on the last lock down and no change to this has been mentioned. If it were me I’d go, worst case you might be turned back.

expectationlost

Cuttlefish wrote: »

Quick question

Can you visit a grave of a relative in another county?

My fathers 1st anniversary is Sunday and the anniversary mass (along with all masses) has been cancelled however i would still like to travel from the county where I live to his grave which is in another county

You can travel outside 5 kilometres of home for the following reasons: to visit a grave
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2dc71-level-5/#funerals

John O.Groats

expectationlost wrote: »

You can travel outside 5 kilometres of home for the following reasons: to visit a grave
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/2dc71-level-5/#funerals

I`m not sure if that applies if the grave is in a different county than the one you live in.

expectationlost

John O.Groats wrote: »

I`m not sure if that applies if the grave is in a different county than the one you live in.

I think it very much implies you can, but strangely it doesn't mention graves in the level 4 county restrictions https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/dc29a-level-4/#domestic-travel-restrictions

GreeBo

Blut2 wrote: »

Yes? Ireland's GDP per capita is 200% that of Israel's. We are a much, much wealthier country.

How is Ireland's (very high) population density limiting our roll out of the vaccine exactly?

How is Ireland's median age of 38 negatively influencing our speed of vaccine roll out?

Why can't you admit our government is not performing competently?

The overall GDP is the same, I don't think individuals are financing the vaccine purchase, do you?

Their population density is far, far higher than ours, twice the people in a third of the space, you can't see how that helps giving something to every person?

We have an older population, it's far more complicated to give vaccines to older people.

Most of this should be obvious, how are you not getting it?

On what basis are you calling them incompetent?
How many spare vaccines do we have left over today?

John O.Groats

If,as is looking more and more likely, the country goes into Level 6 restrictions in a few weeks time what does that involve exactly? I assume all non essential activity including construction stopped, all schools closed, 2km travel limits imposed. What else is included?

KevMayo88

I live with a very vunerable person, and because I work in an office environment that supports the construction industry, I am expected to attend in person next week as normal. I texted some of my work colleagues the last day or two asking if they were uncomfortable with this- the general consenus was that I am a worry wart. Level 5 means nothing.

rob316

John O.Groats wrote: »

If,as is looking more and more likely, the country goes into Level 6 restrictions in a few weeks time what does that involve exactly? I assume all non essential activity including construction stopped, all schools closed, 2km travel limits imposed. What else is included?

Basically back to April. Stay at home order unless for essential work, going for medicine or groceries.

expectationlost

rob316 wrote: »

Basically back to April. Stay at home order unless for essential work, going for medicine or groceries.

don't think the gov want to go back to that, want to keep some things going, but employees need more backup and its very hard for them to assert themselves, only thing that works is blanket essential only work order.. ( amazon and the like should restrict themselves to essentials again.)

John O.Groats

expectationlost wrote: »

don't think the gov want to go back to that, want to keep some things going, but employees need more backup and its very hard for them to assert themselves, only thing that works is blanket essential only work order.. ( amazon and the like should restrict themselves to essentials again.)

I`m sure they don`t want to but if positive cases and hospital admissions keep accelerating the way they are now they may have no other choice but to implement Level 6.

Blut2

GreeBo wrote: »

The overall GDP is the same, I don't think individuals are financing the vaccine purchase, do you?

Their population density is far, far higher than ours, twice the people in a third of the space, you can't see how that helps giving something to every person?

We have an older population, it's far more complicated to give vaccines to older people.

Most of this should be obvious, how are you not getting it?

On what basis are you calling them incompetent?
How many spare vaccines do we have left over today?

Thats an insane argument. By comparing raw total GDP figures you could argue Nigeria and Egypt are just as wealthy as Ireland. No economist on the planet would agree with you - GDP per capita is how you measure a country's wealth, because it gives you an idea of how much money the government has to spend on each citizen.

The Irish vaccination program is not suffering due to the size of the country. There aren't trucks driving around aimlessly for hours, because we're a low population density country like Mongolia or Namibia. We're a high population density, geographically small country. The geographical size of Israel is not why they're vaccinating at 20 times the rate of Ireland.

Israel at this stage in their program has only vaccinated over 65s and essential healthcare workers. Their lower median age (which is only 8 years younger) has made no difference to their vaccination program.

The Irish government is incompetent because we currently have:

- A track and trace system that was scaled down this summer, and is now proving completely inadequate - close contacts of confirmed cases can no longer get a test due to the unmet demand for tests. 9+ months into a pandemic.
- a vaccination program with an aim to vaccinate the population by mid-December 2021. 10 months behind Israel, and 6+ months behind many other countries.

You keep throwing up ridiculous excuses for why Israel in particular are doing far better than Ireland. But its not just Israel. And we're a small, rich, European country. People are dying every day from this disease, and lives are being ruined from the lockdown. We have both the means, and the motivation, to be one of the fastest nations on the planet to vaccinate our population.

But instead our government plan will have us one of the slowest developed countries in the world to finish our vaccination plan. How is this not the very definition of incompetence and failure? Irish citizens will literally lose their lives, and livelihoods, due to the government failing to be more competent.

Cluedo Monopoly

Blut2 wrote: »

Thats an insane argument. By comparing raw total GDP figures you could argue Nigeria and Egypt are just as wealthy as Ireland. No economist on the planet would agree with you - GDP per capita is how you measure a country's wealth, because it gives you an idea of how much money the government has to spend on each citizen.

The Irish vaccination program is not suffering due to the size of the country. There aren't trucks driving around aimlessly for hours, because we're a low population density country like Mongolia or Namibia. We're a high population density, geographically small country. The geographical size of Israel is not why they're vaccinating at 20 times the rate of Ireland.

Israel at this stage in their program has only vaccinated over 65s and essential healthcare workers. Their lower median age (which is only 8 years younger) has made no difference to their vaccination program.

The Irish government is incompetent because we currently have:

- A track and trace system that was scaled down this summer, and is now proving completely inadequate - close contacts of confirmed cases can no longer get a test due to the unmet demand for tests. 9+ months into a pandemic.
- a vaccination program with an aim to vaccinate the population by mid-December 2021. 10 months behind Israel, and 6+ months behind many other countries.

You keep throwing up ridiculous excuses for why Israel in particular are doing far better than Ireland. But its not just Israel. And we're a small, rich, European country. People are dying every day from this disease, and lives are being ruined from the lockdown. We have both the means, and the motivation, to be one of the fastest nations on the planet to vaccinate our population.

But instead our government plan will have us one of the slowest developed countries in the world to finish our vaccination plan. How is this not the very definition of incompetence and failure? Irish citizens will literally lose their lives, and livelihoods, due to the government failing to be more competent.

The Irish government are incompetent because there is little or no accountability and they will get their salary and pension and allowances and expenses no matter when the vaccine is rolled out. And technically they don't have to call an election for 4 years. The permanent government of civil servants are equally carefree. Useless government in a dysfunctional political system.

beggars_bush

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

The Irish government are incompetent because there is little or no accountability and they will get their salary and pension and allowances and expenses no matter when the vaccine is rolled out. And technically they don't have to call an election for 4 years. The permanent government of civil servants are equally carefree. Useless government in a dysfunctional political system.

At least we have a consensus government with 3 parties working together, unlike our near neighbours who are ruled by diktat

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Duplicate post

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Worrying figures tonight. I hope all those who partied, holidayed, came home for Christmas via Belfast or collected family members from Belfast realise the implications of their actions. Not just the spread of covid including to those for whom it can be fatal, but also the massive burden on health services, and the suspension or delay of vital and potentially life saving services such as breast check.

Melanchthon

Peyton Sour Cab wrote: »

Worrying figures tonight. I hope all those who partied, holidayed, came home for Christmas via Belfast or collected family members from Belfast realise the implications of their actions. Not just the massive burden on health services, but the suspension or delay of vital and potentially life saving services such as breast check.

30 thousand people had arrived in Ireland from Britain in the fortnight before the closure , a thousand or two more won't have made a substantial difference at all

ExMachina1000

https://twitter.com/bbc5live/status/1345006866829463552?s=20

dhaughton99

Peyton Sour Cab wrote: »

Worrying figures tonight. I hope all those who partied, holidayed, came home for Christmas via Belfast or collected family members from Belfast realise the implications of their actions. Not just the massive burden on health services, but the suspension or delay of vital and potentially life saving services such as breast check.

Those people really couldn’t care unless it personally affected them, and then, they will only blame others.