Another full lockdown looming? - mod warning in OP

daheff

Happydays2020 wrote: »

People don’t need clothes? Or light bulbs? Or curtains? Or flooring?

These are not essential items. You do not run out of these over the course of a couple of days. Food you can do as it's perishable.

You obviously don't understand how this works.

If you need clothes curtains flooring you buy them when we are in a lower level of the living with Covid framework that allows these non essentials to be sold. This is next there are fewer infected people so the risk of community transmission is much lower.

When we are in a higher level, you stay at home as much as possible and avoid contact with people unless absolutely necessary (buying food).


As for government running up debt paying money to people out of work, would you rather they weren't paid money? Or is your solution to let people get sick unnecessarily, quickly overwhelm the health service and people then die because the hospitals haven't resources to deal with so many sick people??(hint this happened in Italy at the start of the pandemic and people died for the want of a ventilator).

Ger Roe

PommieBast wrote: »

A stopped clock is right twice a day. At the moment he probably is right, but he wanted lockdown even back in June when the curve was flat.

Your statement has no relevance to the specific time and circumstance that was being spoken about.

PTH2009

Same, so many openings and closings

This time we're staying on the wage subsity for lockdown and tbh would of preferred the PUP but what can ya do

Incredibly frustrating by the government and getting extremely tiresome

AllForIt

cee_jay wrote: »

You are very lucky then. In my local Lidl on Christmas eve, there were people (customers and staff) without masks and masks below noses/Chins.
The amount of people who wear masks below their nose is quite high in my experience, I don't know why they even both wearing one in the first place if they won't wear it properly.

99% compliance in my local lidl! Bet your local lidl is in a city where there is less of a community spirit?

weldoninhio

MadYaker wrote: »

Its not as simple as that. The contact tracing doesn't go back far enough to establish where most people actually picked it up. NPHET aren't saying it for no reason. They don't just make stuff up randomly like a lot of other people.

How come when asked for any actual evidence of spread in pubs/restaurants they couldn’t answer it, all they could say was “Google it”

Bass Reeves

weldoninhio wrote: »

How come when asked for any actual evidence of spread in pubs/restaurants they couldn’t answer it, all they could say was “Google it”

Because if you Google it you find it

MadYaker

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Keep telling yourself that.

The bill always arrives when the food is eaten.

And we’re eating plenty for the last nine months.

If you think there’s no repercussions from all this your in for a bit of a shock.

Some can see the reality of the situation not the glossed over version that many want to believe.

There’s no such thing as a free lunch.

Where did I say no repercussions? I stated a fact, that our economy isn't in recession and isn't predicted to enter recession either. If that's incorrect ill happily correct myself. I'm pretty a good at dealing in reality actually. Much better people like yourself who constantly and falsely predict economic doom based on nothing other than your own uninformed brain farts, have a read: https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/1217/1184895-esri-economic-forecast/

MadYaker

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I have to stop you here.

Ireland’s domestic economy was the hardest hit in Europe according to the ERSI report in September due to the fact we had a tourism ban all Summer when Europe didn’t.

It’s costing Ireland about 3 million an hour since March just to pay for the effects of restrictions.

It’s quite likely many citizens quality of life in Ireland has improved dramatically, certainly the savings on deposit in Ireland is an enormous figure, while others quality of life have been decimated.

The disease of course is absolutely nowhere near as dangerous as first thought, but we still implement the nuclear option regardless of consequences

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/1217/1184895-esri-economic-forecast/

I'm happy to debate about the effects of lockdowns on the economy but we need to establish the facts first.

weldoninhio

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Because if you Google it you find it

You can’t, because there is literally no scientific evidence that it’s spread in pubs/restaurants in Ireland. Pointing to a bar in Texas with no social distancing isn’t evidence.

Bass Reeves

weldoninhio wrote: »

You can’t, because there is literally no scientific evidence that it’s spread in pubs/restaurants in Ireland. Pointing to a bar in Texas with no social distancing isn’t evidence.

You see you are being selective

weldoninhio

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You see you are being selective

I know, imagine living in Ireland, and demanding proof of hospitality spreading the bug in Ireland. While the HSPC states there have been 0 cases. It’s such a crazy request.

MadYaker

weldoninhio wrote: »

You can’t, because there is literally no scientific evidence that it’s spread in pubs/restaurants in Ireland. Pointing to a bar in Texas with no social distancing isn’t evidence.

What magical properties do you think pubs and restaurants have that stop it from spreading there? This is liking asking for evidence that water is wet. Some journalist tweeted a graph from the HSPC that said there were no cases linked to hospitality since we opened u3 weeks ago but when contact tracers only look at the previous 48 hours of a persons movement it's not to see how that might be case.

SEPT 23 1989

Apart from certain retail and hospitality the rest of the economy is very strong

Some had their best trading year in many years this year

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

You can’t, because there is literally no scientific evidence that it’s spread in pubs/restaurants in Ireland. Pointing to a bar in Texas with no social distancing isn’t evidence.

What, do Irish pubs have some magic shield that prevents covid transmission happening in them?

You only have to look of the videos online of crowded pubs this past week to know there is little or no social distancing going on in many of them.

Anyone who believes transmission is not happening in pubs is quite simply in denial.

weldoninhio

MadYaker wrote: »

What magical properties do you think pubs and restaurants have that stop it from spreading there? This is liking asking for evidence that water is wet. Some journalist tweeted a graph that said there were no cases linked to hospitality since we opened up but when contact tracers only look at the previous 48 hours of a persons movement it's not to see how that might be case.

Sorry, you are being selective. Some journalist may have tweeted a graph, but it was the HSPC who published it.

Y’know the specialist agency for the surveillance of communicable diseases in Ireland. Literally experts.

weldoninhio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What, do Irish pubs have some magic shield that prevents covid transmission happening in them?

You only have to look of the videos online of crowded pubs this past week to know there is little or no social distancing going on in many of them.

Anyone who believes transmission is not happening in pubs is quite simply in denial.

Ah another bedroom scientist with airtight anecdotal evidence.

Meanwhile the Gardai who are inspecting every pub have stated that “the vast majority of premises continue to be compliant”.

MadYaker

weldoninhio wrote: »

Sorry, you are being selective. Some journalist may have tweeted a graph, but it was the HSPC who published it.

Y’know the specialist agency for the surveillance of communicable diseases in Ireland. Literally experts.

So the HSPC say that they haven't traced any cases back to pubs/restaurants in the last 3 weeks and you think that's good enough evidence for you to say that there hasn't been a single case picked up in a pub or restaurant ever, is that what you're saying here?

I think this is the table from here I think https://extra.ie/2020/12/24/news/irish-news/no-clusters-in-pubs-restaurants-covid-week

MadYaker

This guy does a pretty good job of explaining it actually if you read his tweets

https://twitter.com/President_MU/status/1306908075161518081?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1306908075161518081%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fextra.ie%2F2020%2F12%2F24%2Fnews%2Firish-news%2Fno-clusters-in-pubs-restaurants-covid-week

weldoninhio

MadYaker wrote: »

So the HSPC say that they haven't traced any cases back to pubs/restaurants in the last 3 weeks and you think that's good enough evidence for you to say that there hasn't been a single case picked up in a pub or restaurant ever, is that what you're saying here?

I think this is the table from here I think https://extra.ie/2020/12/24/news/irish-news/no-clusters-in-pubs-restaurants-covid-week

It’s evidence that there have been no cases traced back in the past few weeks, yet they have been forced to close. Which is exactly what it says.

MadYaker

Read the tweets I posted from that Philip Nolan guy, he explains it in more detail. 10 tweets but worth a read. It doesn't contradict the HSPC data it just elaborates on it a bit.

weldoninhio

MadYaker wrote: »

Read the tweets I posted from that Philip Nolan guy, he explains it in more detail. 10 tweets but worth a read. It doesn't contradict the HSPC data it just elaborates on it a bit.

I’m able to read a simple graph myself. I don’t need anyone’s help. Last 3 weeks, number of cases 0, 0, 0. Simple.

JP Liz V1

Roll out the Vaccines, have proper regulations and restrictions in place and businesses can stay open, close businesses for breaches

MadYaker

weldoninhio wrote: »

I’m able to read a simple graph myself. I don’t need anyone’s help. Last 3 weeks, number of cases 0, 0, 0. Simple.

So you're not interested in actually learning anything then? Can't say I'm surprised. You ignore scientists and doctors when they say things you don't like until you misinterpret data and mistakenly think they are saying something you agree with and then all of sudden you're happy to listen to them. And then you say I'm being selective??? Self awareness level: 0

It's not a graph it's a table.

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Ah another bedroom scientist with airtight anecdotal evidence.

Meanwhile the Gardai who are inspecting every pub have stated that “the vast majority of premises continue to be compliant”.

The videos are not anecdotal, you're just choosing to ignore what is right in front of your eyes and refuse to accept common sense.

Vast majority does not equal all, and compliance does not guarantee transmission won't happen.

Posted this over on the pubs thread, worth reposting here.

Deleted User wrote: »

Saw this earlier in the thread, in relation to those who travelled abroad returning with the virus.

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

When Sorcha came back from Provence to Foxrock, and spread it to her hairdresser, who then spread it to her sister, who brought it to the nursing home she worked in, the 25 patients in the nursing home were not treated as having been travel related. Only Sorcha was.

Its a pity there are those who cannot apply the same logic to pubs. i.e.

When Sorcha came back from Provence her night out in the pub to Foxrock, and spread it to her hairdresser, who then spread it to her sister, who brought it to the nursing home she worked in, the 25 patients in the nursing home were not treated as having been travel related pub related. Only Sorcha was.

.

weldoninhio

MadYaker wrote: »

So you're not interested in actually learning anything then? Can't say I'm surprised. You ignore scientists and doctors when they say things you don't like until you misinterpret data and mistakenly think they are saying something you agree with and then all of sudden you're happy to listen to them. And then you say I'm being selective??? Self awareness level: 0

It's not a graph it's a table.

Grammar pedantry, sure sign of winning an argument.

Did have a look at Nolan’s tweets, again no evidence that hospitality is a major spreader. Only that it ‘may’ be picked up there and spread.

With so much money being lost, and jobs gone, the government should not be guessing at things.

Why were pubs/restaurants told to bother taking phone numbers etc. if there is literally no way of knowing if cases come from them? Another government initiative of being seen to do something, even if it’s pointless??

CIARAN_BOYLE

MadYaker wrote: »

So you're not interested in actually learning anything then? Can't say I'm surprised. You ignore scientists and doctors when they say things you don't like until you misinterpret data and mistakenly think they are saying something you agree with and then all of sudden you're happy to listen to them. And then you say I'm being selective??? Self awareness level: 0

It's not a graph it's a table.

Wish there was a line in that table. Number of cases not explained by the above outbreaks.

weldoninhio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The videos are not anecdotal, you're just choosing to ignore what is right in front of your eyes and refuse to accept common sense.

Vast majority does not equal all, and compliance does not guarantee transmission won't happen.

Posted this over on the pubs thread, worth reposting here.



.

Videos are not anecdotal hahahaha. Good lad.

Downlinz

MadYaker wrote: »

This guy does a pretty good job of explaining it actually if you read his tweets

https://twitter.com/President_MU/status/1306908075161518081?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1306908075161518081%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fextra.ie%2F2020%2F12%2F24%2Fnews%2Firish-news%2Fno-clusters-in-pubs-restaurants-covid-week

He's right and I believe this line of thinking entirely but it's noteworthy how this same logic is never applied to schools.

We're essentially using our budget for manageable levels of spread entirely on schools while the same other sectors are sacrificed every lockdown in the process.
Some may rightfully argue this is the best way for society to live with covid but it's disappointing nobody in NPHET or government is willing to make that statement or have that conversation. Instead we get these lies exaggerating the blame on certain sectors and types of behaviour. They may be lies for the greater good of most but they erode trust regardless.

ReginaldSmythV

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Staff will say they won’t tell people to put one on but then will lament their workplace being closed.

That’s simply not true - any store I’ve been to (and I work in retail same story) will ask anyone not wearing one to do so.

Is it not also the law at this point, rather than just “advice”?

CIARAN_BOYLE

Downlinz wrote: »

He's right and I believe this line of thinking entirely but it's noteworthy how this same logic is never applied to schools.

We're essentially using our budget for manageable levels of spread entirely on schools while the same other sectors are sacrificed every lockdown in the process.
Some may rightfully argue this is the best way for society to live with covid but it's disappointing nobody in NPHET or government is willing to make that statement or have that conversation. Instead we get these lies exaggerating the blame on certain sectors and types of behaviour. They may be lies for the greater good of most but they erode trust regardless.

This was understood more in August.

NPHET even came out and said straight out government told us that our priority was to keep the schools open no matter so we need to do all this other stuff.

They dropped the message after that.