Would you track your child's online activity?

danslevent

Hey everyone,

Last night I was on a zoom call with some friends who are abroad. We all had a few drinks and just started chatting.

One of my friends is several years older than me and stepfather to a 17 and 14 year old. Him and his wife have a tracker on their online devices so they see every bit of activity their kids do, which obviously includes every message they both send and receive.

Personally, I was really shocked and said so. However, I don't have kids so I guess I don't know how they feel...what do you think? Bad form or necessary?

If I was 17 and found out my parents did that, I think I would be so angry. Especially since they were laughing at a certain genre of porn their 17 year old likes...

jimmytwotimes 2013

danslevent wrote: »

Hey everyone,

Last night I was on a zoom call with some friends who are abroad. We all had a few drinks and just started chatting.

One of my friends is several years older than me and stepfather to a 17 and 14 year old. Him and his wife have a tracker on their online devices so they see every bit of activity their kids do, which obviously includes every message they both send and receive.

Personally, I was really shocked and said so. However, I don't have kids so I guess I don't know how they feel...what do you think? Bad form or necessary?

If I was 17 and found out my parents did that, I think I would be so angry. Especially since they were laughing at a certain genre of porn their 17 year old likes...

17 a bit much but I'd monitor until they 13-14ish I'd say

Timberrrrrrrr

Nope, not a chance I would break my children's trust like that.

Atlantic Dawn

Under 12 possibly, if they are monitoring over that age the parents must have mental health issues, they should have stuck to having a dog or cat to control.

Day Lewin

Yes. Up to 16. How much sense do you think teenagers have? Online grooming? Street smarts?

None, that's how much.

They are FAR more influenced by what their schoolmates are doing and thinking (or say they are) than by anything adults tell them.
They are NOT grown-ups, even if they think they are. And it's a dark, dangerous world out there on the internet.

xhomelezz

Have two boys, monitored both of them for while, but stopped after month or so. Think they were about 11 years old, just to see. Nothing horrible was happening there..

ShaShaBear

When I was 13, I had access to the internet on our home PC and I also used to frequent the town library computers after school if I wanted a full hour unbothered as I had two siblings who would also want to use it. Fairly mild stuff - Neopets and a few chatrooms intended for teenagers and kids. My parents gave me their full trust.

Right up until they found me texting and calling a man in his 40s that had been grooming me through a chatroom.

So yeah, my three girls will be very closely monitored. It's not always about how much you trust them, but how little you trust everyone else.

xhomelezz

Day Lewin wrote: »

Yes. Up to 16. How much sense do you think teenagers have? Online grooming? Street smarts?

None, that's how much.

They are FAR more influenced by what their schoolmates are doing and thinking (or say they are) than by anything adults tell them.
They are NOT grown-ups, even if they think they are. And it's a dark, dangerous world out there on the internet.

That's a bit of overreaction imo. It's better to properly communicate with kids, rather than spying on them up to 16. Just my opinion.

danslevent

Thank you all for your replies.

I agree, 17 ia definitely too old for that...I just find it a massive invasion od privacy. Also, it's really unfair on their friends. All their personal messages to these children are being read.

Old_-_School

Don't monitor every message but have software that blocks over 15s apps and websites, and flags suspicious activity and blocks all activity at certain times e.g. night-time, homework time

Triangle

Three boys here.
I monitored them until they were 12.
But also was very clear on what they should/should not be doing online.

We've an open communication style between us, I think that helps.

A relative has monitoring and location tracking on his family, even though one's 15. From what I hear a lot happens in his sons life that he's unaware of.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I think there needs to be a monitor but don't look approach for older teens.

So if there's something to be concerned about parents have access but aren't reading the day to day.

For younger teens there has to be something more active alright.

Also the teen should know. It shouldn't be some big secret.

danslevent

Old_-_School wrote: »

Don't monitor every message but have software that blocks over 15s apps and websites, and flags suspicious activity and blocks all activity at certain times e.g. night-time, homework time

I think that is very fair and reasonably. I assume they obviously know about this too. It's the deceit these teenagers are experiencing too. Big brother style watching...

Dave0301

Old_-_School wrote: »

Don't monitor every message but have software that blocks over 15s apps and websites, and flags suspicious activity and blocks all activity at certain times e.g. night-time, homework time

This makes sense and is more proportional.

Being able to read every message is definitely an invasion of privacy.

Monitoring app use and websites visited up to a certain age is responsible parenting as well as communication regarding risks and inappropriate content.

It is not the case of a lack of trust in your kids, but a lack of trust in the undesirables that will look to take advantage of them.

Valresnick

Until they’re 16 absolutely yes I will track and monitor what they’re up to. After that I’ll keep educating them and help them. When they’re 18 it’s up to them ! Hasn’t that always been parenting ? Why would the internet change approach’s that have worked for centuries. Keep your kids safe until they’re no longer kids. Christ, the hand holding we do with people in this day and age.

Timberrrrrrrr

Valresnick wrote: »

Until they’re 16 absolutely yes I will track and monitor what they’re up to. After that I’ll keep educating them and help them. When they’re 18 it’s up to them ! Hasn’t that always been parenting ? Why would the internet change my approach ?

If there was no Internet would you sneak around the streets and watch them and monitor what they were up to?

begbysback

I’ve sellotaped my kids to the wall, I’m not an animal I’ve also placed a mattress beneath them in case the stickyness wears off.

Valresnick

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

If there was no Internet would you sneak around the streets and watch them and monitor what they were up to?

The streets is the school of life my friend. They wouldn’t get exposed to extreme porn, cartel beheadings, gore, endless violence, hate, and some 40 year old pervert pretending to be a 12 year old on our local street corner. People looking for kids to have unfettered access to the internet usually never have kids !

There are so many parents out there that are facilitating their kids talking to married men online by not monitoring what they are doing online.
Many of the parents are too busy on Facebook to care.
Kids copy their parents.

Atlantic Dawn

Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »

There are so many parents out there that are facilitating their kids talking to married men online by not monitoring what they are doing online.
Many of the parents are too busy on Facebook to care.
Kids copy their parents.

Should wives then monitor their husbands online activity?

Valresnick

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Should wives then monitor their husbands online activity?

This is for a different thread. Don’t move away from the original topic.

Stihl waters

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Should wives then monitor their husbands online activity?

Yes, that's exactly the same thing

Valresnick

Valresnick wrote: »

The streets is the school of life my friend. They wouldn’t get exposed to extreme porn, cartel beheadings, gore, endless violence, hate, and some 40 year old pervert pretending to be a 12 year old on our local street corner. People looking for kids to have unfettered access to the internet usually never have kids !

Never a truer word spoken.

I have no kids myself but parents monitoring what a 17 year old is doing online is bizarre behaviour.

Gruffalux

It's a horrid dilemma. Thankfully mine were grown up before the digital world became too much of a minefield. I did not monitor anything about them, and even though there was very little available like there is now, still I know they got into a scrape or two. But we did talk openly about the madness of others which can be amplified through the medium. Online stranger danger. The somehow exaggerated intensity of what online bullying feels like, when the truth is one would laugh at the bullying simpletons in real life.

Still, younger relatives are suffering because of online interactions and I do think there is a role now for some kind of monitoring. I would never read messages. It would be like reading a diary. But up to say 14 years old no access to certain apps, maybe. Or an age blocker. And regularly telling them about the facts of digital life.
Ugh, it's a terrible conundrum I honestly don't know what I would do. One of my young adults says he just escaped the present time of digital madness for kids - he and his generation know there is a real them and an online persona, but the younger generation have synthesised their real world selves with the digital persona so that they are becoming indistinguishable. This is going to be a big psychological issue going forwards. People whose centre of being and awareness is external.
If a child was suffering due to online activity, I would be really tempted to take them hiking in deepest Ladakh for a year and get them far away from the pernicious aspects of the internet.

Day Lewin

xhomelezz wrote: »

That's a bit of overreaction imo. It's better to properly communicate with kids, rather than spying on them up to 16. Just my opinion.

This is with communication; not instead of. Just to clarify that!

Timberrrrrrrr

Valresnick wrote: »

The streets is the school of life my friend. They wouldn’t get exposed to extreme porn, cartel beheadings, gore, endless violence, hate, and some 40 year old pervert pretending to be a 12 year old on our local street corner. People looking for kids to have unfettered access to the internet usually never have kids !

I have 5 kids, 4 in thier 20's and a 9 year old so yes, I kinda do know what I'm talking about.

One eyed Jack

danslevent wrote: »

Hey everyone,

Last night I was on a zoom call with some friends who are abroad. We all had a few drinks and just started chatting.

One of my friends is several years older than me and stepfather to a 17 and 14 year old. Him and his wife have a tracker on their online devices so they see every bit of activity their kids do, which obviously includes every message they both send and receive.

Personally, I was really shocked and said so. However, I don't have kids so I guess I don't know how they feel...what do you think? Bad form or necessary?

If I was 17 and found out my parents did that, I think I would be so angry. Especially since they were laughing at a certain genre of porn their 17 year old likes...

It’s not you OP but there’s so much is weird in just that little snippet alone that it just shows different strokes for different folks and all that - different people gonna raise their own children by their standards, not anyone else’s.

Valresnick wrote: »

Until they’re 16 absolutely yes I will track and monitor what they’re up to. After that I’ll keep educating them and help them. When they’re 18 it’s up to them ! Hasn’t that always been parenting ? Why would the internet change approach’s that have worked for centuries. Keep your kids safe until they’re no longer kids. Christ, the hand holding we do with people in this day and age.

You say that, and then you come out with this shìte?

Valresnick wrote: »

The streets is the school of life my friend. They wouldn’t get exposed to extreme porn, cartel beheadings, gore, endless violence, hate, and some 40 year old pervert pretending to be a 12 year old on our local street corner. People looking for kids to have unfettered access to the internet usually never have kids !

Timberrrr has a point, up to a point - normally what happens is children growing up in any neighbourhood, village or town are known among the community because neighbours and families and members of that community are all known to each other, so they keep an eye out for each other and each other’s children. That’s still pretty much the way communities work, both offline and to some extent online. There’s no difference between a child wandering off on their own offline, and a child using the Internet without guidance and oversight.

Nobody was arguing that children should have unfettered access to the Internet. It’s simply the case that some people are of the belief that they should respect their children’s privacy. I get where they’re coming from and I do the same myself, to a degree, as I always have done. You’ll only drive yourself demented if imagine your child will be exposed to the shìttiest side of human behaviour on the Internet any more than they wouldn’t be exposed to shìtty human behaviour offline.

Just like there’s plenty more good in the world than the shìtty things one may never experience, it’s no different on the Internet - there’s plenty of good stuff on the Internet that children (and indeed adults) can learn from, as opposed to getting caught up in spending an inordinate amount of time and effort worrying and inducing anxiety about shìt that’s unlikely ever to happen.

GarIT

I'd go more with blocking websites and apps, setting their internet access to turn off at 11 or 12, and not letting them have admin accounts on devices instead of monitoring. As well as communication.

_Brian

Youngest is 12.

We have her phone unlock code and regularly check history, texts and other communication.

It’s the deal of her having the phone and getting credit.

pah

17 and 13 year old girls with iphones. The condition of use is that I can pick up they're device at any time and go through it. Haven't done it with the 17 yr old since she turned 16. Probably have a quick look at the 13 yr old phone once a month but it's not covert, she knows I am doing it.

riffmongous

Has anyone who secretly monitored ever have the kids find out? What was the reaction?

biko

OP is an example of friends without kids that have opinions on how to raise kids.
Unless you have kids it's almost impossible to image what it's like to be a parent.



And yes I have. Also we use OpenDNS FamilyShield to filter the worst from the net.

pah

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I have no kids myself but parents monitoring what a 17 year old is doing online is bizarre behaviour so I'll reserve judgement until I do

FYP

Valresnick

_Brian wrote: »

Youngest is 12.

We have her phone unlock code and regularly check history, texts and other communication.

It’s the deal of her having the phone and getting credit.

Yeah normal, I have no idea why people are opposed to this approach. Oh hold on wait I do, they’ve no kids or they have kids and they just couldn’t give a flying shyte....

Sardonicat

Stihl waters wrote: »

Yes, that's exactly the same thing

No, parents monitor children's online activity to prevent them from bring exposed to material unsuitable for a minor and to protect them from adult predators. A wife monitoring her husband is just invading his privacy.

One eyed Jack

biko wrote: »

OP is an example of friends without kids that have opinions on how to raise kids.
Unless you have kids it's almost impossible to image what it's like to be a parent.

Ahh it’s not really. I’m guessing one of the many reasons people want to have children of their own in the first place is because they imagine what it’s like to be a parent. The differences between expectations and outcomes aren’t all that exponentially different that it would be even almost impossible to imagine what it would be like for anyone to be a parent to their own children.

The OP really isn’t any different as an example of people who have opinions on how other people raise their own children. The parents in the OP’s example opened themselves up to that judgement when they tell the OP about how they raise their children. Without knowing the full context of how that conversation went, I wouldn’t be too quick to judge the parents for laughing about their 17 year olds porn habits. Constantly monitoring their children like that though must be mentally exhausting, apart from any ethical or moral concerns about the parents behaviour and attitudes towards their own children or what their children are learning from their parents behaviours and attitudes.

pah

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Ahh it’s not really. I’m guessing one of the many reasons people want to have children of their own in the first place is because they imagine what it’s like to be a parent. The differences between expectations and outcomes aren’t all that exponentially different that it would be even almost impossible to imagine what it would be like for anyone to be a parent to their own children.

The OP really isn’t any different as an example of people who have opinions on how other people raise their own children. The parents in the OP’s example opened themselves up to that judgement when they tell the OP about how they raise their children. Without knowing the full context of how that conversation went, I wouldn’t be too quick to judge the parents for laughing about their 17 year olds porn habits. Constantly monitoring their children like that though must be mentally exhausting, apart from any ethical or moral concerns about the parents behaviour and attitudes towards their own children or what their children are learning from their parents behaviours and attitudes.

So..... No kids of your own then?

GarIT

The things that are difficult to monitor are the worst too. Kik and Snapchat are lethal.

"Exploring yourself" or "BDSM intro" chat rooms for 13-17 year olds where accounts are anonymous and there is no age verification makes me sick.

I haven't found any software that can monitor the automatically deleting messages in Snapchat or Kik.

Strumms

danslevent wrote: »

Thank you all for your replies.

I agree, 17 ia definitely too old for that...I just find it a massive invasion od privacy. Also, it's really unfair on their friends. All their personal messages to these children are being read.

I agree. To be honest... if I’m a parent of one of this kids friends and I found out I’d be having a word, a none to quiet a word with the parents who installed this..
I’m not happy about communications which my kid sends to a friend being intercepted and read by a third party, parent or otherwise... as a parent you are not going to sit with your ear to the door and listen to a conversation between Sean and David, what makes you think it’s ok to snoop on electronic private messages?

Genuine question... is it even actually legal in Ireland to do this? just had a very quick google search and nothing conclusive either way....but whatever about legal, it’s sure ain’t ethical...

Stihl waters

Sardonicat wrote: »

No, parents monitor children's online activity to prevent them from bring exposed to material unsuitable for a minor and to protect them from adult predators. A wife monitoring her husband is just invading his privacy.

That's what I meant

Atlantic Dawn

If I had a child and found out their online conversations to a friend were being monitored by that childs parents I would find that very disturbing.

GarIT

Strumms wrote: »

as a parent you are not going to sit with your ear to the door and listen to a conversation between Sean and David, what makes you think it’s ok to snoop on electronic private messages?

My mother certainly did. Regularly drove past where I said I would be to see if I was there too.

Not saying that it's right but people do.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Might have been asked already, but: do the kids know?

I would monitor a 13 year old but not a 17 year old, and maybe just browser activity and messages to people not in their address book. I would also make sid kid aware of the fact that his activity is being tracked (although not nessecarily viewed).

17 year old is practically an adult - even if you find something suspicious (although not illegal), what are you going to do?

One eyed Jack

pah wrote: »

So..... No kids of your own then?

Surely the fact that different people raise their children according to their own standards is enough to inform you that there isn’t one single objective standard of raising children? If that wasn’t enough, I don’t think the fact that I’m a parent is going to be of much use to you one way or the other. You don’t appear to be too interested in other peoples opinions that don’t agree with your own so you probably missed it earlier in the thread when I said -

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s simply the case that some people are of the belief that they should respect their children’s privacy. I get where they’re coming from and I do the same myself, to a degree, as I always have done.

Those people who say anyone who doesn’t have children don’t know what it’s like to be a parent, are looking at it from the wrong angle. Unless one grew up without any authority figures in their lives to learn from, they will have parents or authority figures whom they will have learned from. Neither extreme of either the helicopter parent, or the absentee parent is particularly healthy for children’s development into adulthood.

Most people will be somewhere in the middle ground when it comes to raising children, and having been children once themselves and having experience of being children and of different styles of parenting to my own, I wouldn’t immediately discount someone’s opinions on raising children solely on the basis that I imagine because they don’t have children of their own they can’t know what they’re talking about.

One eyed Jack

Strumms wrote: »

I agree. To be honest... if I’m a parent of one of this kids friends and I found out I’d be having a word, a none to quiet a word with the parents who installed this..
I’m not happy about communications which my kid sends to a friend being intercepted and read by a third party, parent or otherwise... as a parent you are not going to sit with your ear to the door and listen to a conversation between Sean and David, what makes you think it’s ok to snoop on electronic private messages?

Genuine question... is it even actually legal in Ireland to do this? just had a very quick google search and nothing conclusive either way....but whatever about legal, it’s sure ain’t ethical...

It’s perfectly lawful for parents to monitor their children’s activities online and offline. They’re not monitoring your child’s activities, so your having a word with them for monitoring their own children’s activities isn’t likely to come to anything.

As for parents sitting with their ears to the door, I don’t know too many who go to that sort of effort, I prefer an open door policy myself that I don’t need to go listening outside the door or any of the rest of that nonsense. I wouldn’t be averse to monitoring my own child’s activities if I ever thought it were necessary, and if another parent came to have a word with me about monitoring their children’s communications with my child, I’d have no problem pointing out to them that I have every right to monitor my own children’s activities and who they are in communication with and who communicates with them, same right as any parent has, and whether or not they choose to exercise that right is entirely their own business.

Atlantic Dawn

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Under 12 possibly, if they are monitoring over that age the parents must have mental health issues, they should have stuck to having a dog or cat to control.

Dogs and cats generally are not the subject of online grooming an pedophiles, quite unlike kids and teenagers.

Cyber bullying is another one.

If you’re not monitoring your kids online activity you’re a moron.

ByTheSea2019

I only think this is ok if you tell them it's being done as a condition of having the phone. A bit like a sign saying CCTV operates in this area.

pickarooney

normally what happens is children growing up in any neighbourhood, village or town are known among the community because neighbours and families and members of that community are all known to each other, so they keep an eye out for each other and each other’s children

How common is this really? Growing up in a (small) city, hardly anyone in the neighborhood knows who anyone else is, who my kids are, where they live etc.

We have limits on our kids phones, in number of hours per day, what apps are allowed, what time they shut off at etc. They're fully aware of the rules and limitations and any attempt to get around them are met with immediate confiscation and a conversation about why it's happening.

We would never spy on their private conversations but there is a rule that if we have any reason to suspect bullying, harassment, grooming or the likes they have to show us their last few days of chat/message logs. Facebook, Instagram and all that **** are off limits.

For me the biggest danger is addiction to YouTube channels and minecraft

Strumms

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s perfectly lawful for parents to monitor their children’s activities online and offline. They’re not monitoring your child’s activities, so your having a word with them for monitoring their own children’s activities isn’t likely to come to anything.

As for parents sitting with their ears to the door, I don’t know too many who go to that sort of effort, I prefer an open door policy myself that I don’t need to go listening outside the door or any of the rest of that nonsense. I wouldn’t be averse to monitoring my own child’s activities if I ever thought it were necessary, and if another parent came to have a word with me about monitoring their children’s communications with my child, I’d have no problem pointing out to them that I have every right to monitor my own children’s activities and who they are in communication with and who communicates with them, same right as any parent has, and whether or not they choose to exercise that right is entirely their own business.

There isn’t the facility just to monitor your own child’s communications, there is the problem , because whomever is replying to them, their content is viewable too... that is not satisfactory. They have not given permission for their communications to be read by a third party...I’m betting their parents haven’t too.

One eyed Jack

pickarooney wrote: »

How common is this really? Growing up in a (small) city, hardly anyone in the neighborhood knows who anyone else is, who my kids are, where they live etc.

It’s still fairly common in my experience. I grew up in a small village, moved to a small town, then moved to a small city, and everyone in the neighbourhood knows who the “blow-ins” are

It’s still common enough that people get to know each other though being neighbours or being involved in community groups such as religious communities or sports or schools their children attend, or even though their custom in local businesses like shops where they would often be seen doing their shopping so their children when they’re hanging around shopping centres looking like they’re up to no good, the security guards and management will know who their parents are and will sometimes have a word if they think it’s necessary, or the parents themselves might say to security or management to send their children home if they see them on their own or hanging out with a particular crowd.

It’s even easier these days with constant mobile communication being a thing. I don’t need to set up any family settings or location reporting on my child’s mobile device because I can be fairly sure where he is to be found if I need to know where he is in any case. He knows it too :pac: