State papers release - Adams was not in control of IRA?

tdf7187

These comments from Gerry Adams to John Hume in summer 1990 seem to indicate that - unless he was playing a complicated game of 'good cop'/'bad cop', with himself representing both good cop and bad cop - which of course is possible, that Adams was not in full control of the IRA.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/adams-told-hume-of-worry-ira-would-assassinate-thatcher-1.4444970

Sierra Oscar

I don't think there is anything surprising about this whatsoever.

The IRA was / is controlled by the Army Council, a collection of approximately 7 individuals. No one person has ever really had absolute unilateral control of the organisation. The Army Council itself was rife with factionalism down through the decades too.

Sure, Adams may have been the public face but that's not to be confused with him being the 'one in charge'.

smurgen

But Varadkar and Harris told us in the election that Mary Lou could get them to disband? Now I'm confused

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1230845552906194947?s=19

Beltby

smurgen wrote: »

But Varadkar and Harris told us in the election that Mary Lou could get them to disband? Now I'm confused

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1230845552906194947?s=19

You're confused because that tweet has nothing to do with Adams being in the IRA or not.

corks finest

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I don't think there is anything surprising about this whatsoever.

The IRA was / is controlled by the Army Council, a collection of approximately 7 individuals. No one person has ever really had absolute unilateral control of the organisation. The Army Council itself was rife with factionalism down through the decades too.

Sure, Adams may have been the public face but that's not to be confused with him being the 'one in charge'.

Forgetting the executive who vote in the army council initially and who really pull the strings when needed

smurgen

Beltby wrote: »

You're confused because that tweet has nothing to do with Adams being in the IRA or not.

It's an example of the same allegation made about the former SF leader being thrown at the current leader of SF by the head of the police and Taoiseach at the time with no evidence and contrary to the most recent reports on the matter. I think the allegations of these type need to be explained with actual evidence. It's Trumpian. Absolutely outrageous that Harris was allowed to interfere in the election in such a manner.

tdf7187

Beltby wrote: »

You're confused because that tweet has nothing to do with Adams being in the IRA or not.

You know perfectly well the point Smurgeon is making. Constantly the leaders of FF and FG , supported by a section of the media and a foolish and easily led section of the electorate, are telling us that the current leader of SF, whoever that might be, is really leading a private army in the background. Adams never had control of the IRA, and MLD, who was barely out of school when the peace process started, sure as f*** didn't and doesn't.

Beltby

tdf7187 wrote: »

You know perfectly well the point Smurgeon is making. Constantly the leaders of FF and FG , supported by a section of the media and a foolish and easily led section of the electorate, are telling us that the current leader of SF, whoever that might be, is really leading a private army in the background. Adams never had control of the IRA, and MLD, who was barely out of school when the peace process started, sure as f*** didn't and doesn't.

I realise that now having read a further post from Smurgen. It wasn't clear to me from the original post of theirs.

tdf7187

smurgen wrote: »

It's an example of the same allegation made about the former SF leader being thrown at the current leader of SF by the head of the police and Taoiseach at the time with no evidence and contrary to the most recent reports on the matter. I think the allegations of these type need to be explained with actual evidence. It's Trumpian. Absolutely outrageous that Harris was allowed to interfere in the election in such a manner.

Yes, it's black propaganda. The most disturbing aspect to it is that it is emanating from senior FF and FG politicians entirely for reasons of political opportunism (none of them actually genuinely believe that MLD has a private army at her disposal, ready to be summonsed to wage war on her political foes with one phone call from her house in Rathgar) and is largely supported, in an unquestioning fashion, by much of the media.

Kraftwerk

tdf7187 wrote: »

You know perfectly well the point Smurgeon is making. Constantly the leaders of FF and FG , supported by a section of the media and a foolish and easily led section of the electorate, are telling us that the current leader of SF, whoever that might be, is really leading a private army in the background. Adams never had control of the IRA, and MLD, who was barely out of school when the peace process started, sure as f*** didn't and doesn't.

The only point he's making is "whatabout FG!!" which is the only thing shinners seem capable of posting on here.

kravmaga

tdf7187 wrote: »

These comments from Gerry Adams to John Hume in summer 1990 seem to indicate that - unless he was playing a complicated game of 'good cop'/'bad cop', with himself representing both good cop and bad cop - which of course is possible, that Adams was not in full control of the IRA.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/adams-told-hume-of-worry-ira-would-assassinate-thatcher-1.4444970

It was a 7 member army council which Gerry Adams was a member, so the article is factually correct that Adams was not in full control of the PIRA in 1990.

It is alleged that Adams was indeed Chief of Staff of PIRA from 1977 to 1978.

Although denied by Adams in the media.

tdf7187

Kraftwerk wrote: »

The only point he's making is "whatabout FG!!" which is the only thing shinners seem capable of posting on here.

Even your post was true - which it is demonstrably not - I would have thought that the current "two cheeks same ass" FF/FG government should be subject to democratic oversight and scrutiny. Are you against the government being subjected to scrutiny?

Eric Cartman

tdf7187 wrote: »

These comments from Gerry Adams to John Hume in summer 1990 seem to indicate that - unless he was playing a complicated game of 'good cop'/'bad cop', with himself representing both good cop and bad cop - which of course is possible, that Adams was not in full control of the IRA.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/adams-told-hume-of-worry-ira-would-assassinate-thatcher-1.4444970

Gerry Adams has been pretty consistent in his lies about being head of the IRA, just because its on somebody elses notes doesn't make it any less of a lie.

suicide_circus

Just checked his wiki, it does not say he was in the IRA

Smee_Again

Lads, lads, remember Mary Lou’s words: stop being pig ignorant.

Kermit.de.frog

Gerry Adams has never heard of the IRA

McMurphy

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Gerry Adams has been pretty consistent in his lies about being head of the IRA, just because its on somebody elses notes doesn't make it any less of a lie.

He obviously was above and beyond an excellent operative, imagine being simultaneously both a member of, and the public face of a secret and outlawed military wing, being under constant surveillance by intelligence agencies from various different countries (I think we can assume, Ireland, UK and USA were actively monitoring Adams) and all that time being able to stay one step ahead of them?

I do not know for sure if Adams was a member of the Ra - I suspect he was a member maybe at some point in his life, no idea for what length of time, or at what level, but its irrelevant anyway.

I will add to smurgens point, this report flies in the face of all the obvious bogus claims from the other leaders about McDonald being in some kind of position to instruct the AC to disband.

Drew Harris won't like it either.

Bonniedog

McMurphy wrote: »

I do not know for sure if Adams was a member of the Ra - I suspect he was a member maybe at some point in his life, no idea for what length of time, or at what level, but its irrelevant anyway.


.

It is not irrelevant, and he was a member. Not only a member but CS and the kingmaker for all those who succeeded him.

By the way, it was an offence under IRA orders to deny in court that you were a member of the IRA and to fight cases in the Special Criminal court.

Lots of people could have saved themselves jail time by denying they were members same as Adams did. Especially ironic in that Adams and his chums were the ones who disciplined any Volunteer who did defend themselves in court.

This is important historically, but of course the newbie Shinners want to have their cake and eat it too.

So you hear some of them threatening people with an army that ignominously surrendered. While on the other they get all upset if someone points out this and that their little god from the Murph was a member.

maccored

lads who havent a clue what went on a few hundred miles up the road from their own front step are now all experts on the IRA - hahahahahaha! Nearly as bad as those who claim to hate the SF party yet constantly post about them

Galwayguy35

Former IRA men say Adams was in the IRA back in the 1970s, no idea why he keeps denying it and I don't blame him one bit for joining up when Catholics/Nationalists were being murdered by the Brits and burned out of their homes by loyalists.

McGuinness admitted he was in it years ago and it did him no harm at all.

FrancieBrady

A lot of anger from the failed 'Get Gerry' campaigners.
Whatever you think of him has to be in line for the smartest/wiliest politician ever in Ireland if not anywhere,

Bonniedog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A lot of anger from the failed 'Get Gerry' campaigners.
Whatever you think of him has to be in line for the smartest/wiliest politician ever in Ireland if not anywhere,

The angriest people i have heard regarding Adams have been Volunteers like Brendan Hughes, the Prices, McIntyre. Bernard Fox and others who saw their comrades die for nothing. Sometimes at the hands of the Belfast touts.

StupidLikeAFox

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Former IRA men say Adams was in the IRA back in the 1970s, no idea why he keeps denying it and I don't blame him one bit for joining up when Catholics/Nationalists were being murdered by the Brits and burned out of their homes by loyalists.

McGuinness admitted he was in it years ago and it did him no harm at all.

It could be like the virgin Mary - tell one small lie and you have to run with it. Neither probably realised it would define them

FrancieBrady

Bonniedog wrote: »

The angriest people i have heard regarding Adams have been Volunteers like Brendan Hughes, the Prices, McIntyre. Bernard Fox and others who saw their comrades die for nothing. Sometimes at the hands of the Belfast touts.

I'm sure Adams knew plenty who gave their lives too.
The angriest (pointless anger as it turns out) are those who couldn't stomach him turning to politics but yet preached from the high moral ground that they should turn to politics.
Off course what they really meant was sit in the corner and say nothing and certainly don't challenge our nice cozy status quo.

Bonniedog

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

It could be like the virgin Mary - tell one small lie and you have to run with it. Neither probably realised it would define them

McGuinness was convicted of membership in 70s and openly claimed to be Derry OC so he wasn't admitting to anything.

There may have been reasons for Adams to deny membership when a membership charge might have been brought against him in 26 counties 30 years ago. Even though there was little chance of that.

His denial has more to do with some weird re-invention of himself for the world. Anyone involved at time knew he was IRA leader even when he didn't hold the CS post. McKenna just did as he was told,

This has led to schizophrenic situation where newbie Shinners absolutely believe that he never was, while does that do, have made denial an article of faith.

It is a situation worthy of any totalitarian organisation. which is what it is. Small coterie of insiders who know the truth surrounded by a pack of sheep and/or self-serving careerists who know that the old boys are all dying off.

corks finest

maccored wrote: »

lads who havent a clue what went on a few hundred miles up the road from their own front step are now all experts on the IRA - hahahahahaha! Nearly as bad as those who claim to hate the SF party yet constantly post about them

Quite agree as a Cork man who lived in Derry for 20 years, some Johnny come lately shinners who haven't a notion, worse again are the embarrassing up the ra heads you'd meet in pubs or in the street full of beer and coke, I went north as a Cork sinn fein member in 79/80 and none of this ****e was allowed to be happen, all behaved as we were ambassadors for our cumainn and county

maccored

corks finest wrote: »

Quite agree as a Cork man who lived in Derry for 20 years, some Johnny come lately shinners who haven't a notion, worse again are the embarrassing up the ra heads you'd meet in pubs or in the street full of beer and coke, I went north as a Cork sinn fein member in 79/80 and none of this ****e was allowed to be happen, all behaved as we were ambassadors for our cumainn and county

SF in the north in 1980 is a lot different from the SF of now -particularly in so far as political power to make actual change. Plus the role of SF at that time was understandably different as well.

If though, you compare SF to any other party, I'd say its got its fair share of over-enthusiastic supporters. They're growing massively in popularity so that's to be expected.

They'll keep growing - just look at how popular they seem to be on boards. I'd say theres quite a few related posts ever day.