Pavement Parking (Ireland vs France)

Don Juan II

I know this isn't directly related to cycling - mods feel free to move.
I feel the thread might actually get some more interesting discussion here rather than elsewhere on boards.ie.

In my head, I've always held the likes of France/Germany/The Netherlands/Denmark is much higher regard when it comes to infrastructure for cyclists and pedestrians. This was based on some visits to these countries and from what I've read online.

I've recently started using Bike The World for some indoor training and I'm really enjoying it. The footage I've seen has been recorded on a camera mounted on a bike. I enter my weight and connect the software to my power meter and away I go. I can then virtually ride these rides recorded by others (bit like FullGaz but free ... still in development).

While doing this, I've noticed a few things:
1. There are quite a few close passes ... in France and also Norway! Motorists behave the same as they do here.
2. The other thing I really didn't expect to see was the amount of pavement parking.

Regarding #2 ... it's not just pavement parking. This type of parking seems to be actively encouraged by local authorities in these towns and villages I virtually cycled through. MUCH MUCH worse than here in Ireland. See the image below pulled from Google Maps. This type of parking spaces were in most of the towns and villages I cycled through.

As can be seen, the parking spaces that are marked out are half on the footpath, half on the road. The bit of the footpath that's left for pedestrains is USELESS!
And even where it wasn't marked out for parking ... cars still parked on the footpaths anyway!

Also, pavement parking was EVERYWHERE!!!!!! Literally, every single town I cycled through had cars littered all over the footpaths making them completely impassable for pedestrians. I met several adults/families/kids walking on the road around parked cars.

Maybe this is just a case of me having these countries "on a pedestal" ... and that was incorrect of me.
Maybe this is just a case of pavement parking is more of a global issue than I actually thought.

I was quite disappointed to be honest. I thought it was a parking on footpaths was a phenomenon limited to the UK and Ireland.

magicbastarder

Don Juan II wrote: »

I know this isn't directly related to cycling - mods feel free to move.
I feel the thread might actually get some more interesting discussion here rather than elsewhere on boards.ie.

no objections from me, but the commuting and transport forum is reasonably active for this sort of thing. and infrastructure too, e.g. this thread:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057923227&page=26

magicbastarder

Don Juan II wrote: »

Regarding #2 ... it's not just pavement parking. This type of parking seems to be actively encouraged by local authorities in these towns and villages I virtually cycled through. MUCH MUCH worse than here in Ireland. See the image below pulled from Google Maps. This type of parking spaces were in most of the towns and villages I cycled through.

that is weird - not that motorists can be dicks about where they leave their cars, but that such parking spots are provided. it negates the purpose of the path.

Don Juan II

magicbastarder wrote: »

that is weird - not that motorists can be dicks about where they leave their cars, but that such parking spots are provided. it negates the purpose of the path.

Yeah, I found it very strange and also surprising. I didn't expect to see it. And I saw it in pretty much every town and village in that region.

Don Juan II

I've Googled some of the top tourist towns in this area of France and I've seen the same thing in ALL of them!

This is outside an old church:


WFT!




Now I'm trying to figure out when I got the notion that France was much better than Ireland!

punisher5112

magicbastarder wrote: »

that is weird - not that motorists can be dicks about where they leave their cars, but that such parking spots are provided. it negates the purpose of the path.

Usually done in places with not such high traffic volume and also the road then wouldn't be wide enough for others to pass....

It actually works quite well even though it looks so wrong and I suppose is but the roads tend to be so narrow.

GlennaMaddy

punisher5112 wrote: »

Usually done in places with not such high traffic volume and also the road then wouldn't be wide enough for others to pass....

It actually works quite well even though it looks so wrong and I suppose is but the roads tend to be so narrow.

It works in countries where driver entitlement is less than ours, I've felt comfortable walking out onto village streets in France, Belgium and the Netherlands, where motorists are entitled to drive but don't feel entitled to blow you off the road like here. Cities like Paris are an exception mind.

Thelonious Monk

My folks live in Spain most of the time and I have never seen a car parked on the footpath there, I look out for these things (sad I know).
The kerbs are too high in residential areas, and in the centres there are little metal bollards everywhere so it's not even an option.
Also the police will ticket you if you have 2 wheels even up on the footpath.

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Visiting other countries in Europe I noticed pavement parking was particularly bad in Italy. Footpaths pretty much unusable in many areas of some of the towns/cities.

I agree though, Ireland and UK are very bad for it. And moreso due to the fact Gardai turn a blind eye to it despite it being a ticketing offence.

joujoujou

Used to live in one of the Central European countries where parking on footpath is widespread, especially on quiet streets:



Everybody - drivers, cyclists, pedestrians share what's left, and nobody has a problem with that.

On busier streets with wider foothpaths though, cars are allowed to park on foothpaths only if there's at least 1.5 m left for pedestrians, unless signs are saying "no parking on foothpath at all".

CelticRambler

As a French pavement parker, and avoider of when I'm not, I can confirm that it is indeed considered totally normal, as is parking in the middle of the road (if it's wide enough). It greatly increases the amount of parking available, meaning that town-centre parking is almost always free, which encourages people to shop in what's left of the small independent businesses, and to leave their cars parked for as long as they need to be, instead of trying to get back to them before a pre-determined time.

That said, there's a gradual move in France to reduce the amount of roadway available for driving and convert these half-on-half-off spaces into fully on-the-road spaces, usually as blocks of 3-5 spaces alternately positioned on the left and the right, with a concurrent 30kmh speed limit. Where the pavements are wide enough, parking is still tolerated/authorised/encouraged ... except when the pavement is being used for some other purpose, e.g. flea markets and street fairs.

Thelonious Monk

If there's a double yellow lined road and you park up on the pavement, which is endemic where I live, is that even illegal? People leave cars outside my house for days, one is there pretty much 24/7, and it's double yellow lined.
Could I put a metal box outside with a padlock on it and just stuff in it? I think it would be moved fairly quickly but if I bought an old van for 200 euro I could use it as extra storage. I wonder if people do this? My under the stairs is a jungle and I've no garage.

Wishbone Ash

When I saw the title, I thought the OP was sussing out parking options around Lansdowne Road for a forthcoming rugby international.

MojoMaker

^^ Snap

Don Juan II

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

When I saw the title, I thought the OP was sussing out parking options around Lansdowne Road for a forthcoming rugby international.

:pac::pac::pac::pac:

Mr T.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

When I saw the title, I thought the OP was sussing out parking options around Lansdowne Road for a forthcoming rugby international.

you are not alone on that one

eeeee

I think footpad parking is only not a problem if you're able bodied and on two feet - much bigger problem for wheelchair users, and those with walking aids who can't hop up onto them again.
Also a pita for buggy users too, although they're more able to pop back up again once off.
I think some countries are less engaged with these issues than others, and although we've very, very, very far to go we're better than most in that respect.

AndrewJRenko

Check out Lower Kilmacud Road in Stillorgan - multiple vehicles parked on the footpath despite generous driveways and gardens at every house. It is just about convenience--they can't be arsed to drive into the driveway.

Peter T

I know an old neighbor of mine used park one of their cars outside even though they had space for 2 side by side on the drive. Didnt want others parking outside their house was the reason

Curb Your Enthusiasm

Spotted this one yesterday. Can't get over how anyone can leave their vehicle like that and consider it okay.

I refuse to believe it's just ignorance.

Wishbone Ash

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

... Can't get over how anyone can leave their vehicle like that and consider it okay....

It's simply a motorist centrist mindset. They haven't blocked the road/bus lane so they assume they are being courteous.

Just like the way majority of smokers would loathe littering but think nothing of dropping a cigarette end on the ground and standing on it. They simply don't consider it to be littering.

Macy0161

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

It's simply a motorist centrist mindset. They haven't blocked the road/bus lane so they assume they are being courteous.

Same logic that by default a vehicle broken down is pushed up onto the pavement/ cycle lane. Can't discommode other motorists, but forcing pedestrians and cyclists out on to the road is fine....

magicbastarder

https://twitter.com/ntsafos/status/1346415950128689153