George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

kravmaga

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Has anybody asked the pertinent question here that needs to be directed at the terrible level of mental health services that exist in this country.


That’s the story in all this for me.

Stay on the topic here.

Mental health is a subject which deserves an entire new Thread to discuss separately to this Thread.

This thread is about someone arming themselves with a weapon and injuring and trying to kill members of the public and our Police force.

screamer

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I don’t know what mental issues FFG is guy had, his parents said he was getting help.

What I do know though is that the mental health services in this country are faqking terrible, and the happenings of the last 10 months have exasperated that.

I would like to know what help he had accessed / sought / received.

I agree with you the services are appalling, I’ve seen that myself in my extended family. But, you’ll never know what he accessed or sought help for or with, that’d be confidential and well the family know that.

To be honest, almost every heinous crime that makes it to the media these days have the mental health card pulled to garner sympathy and fudge reality. I feel this is the biggest dis service to mental health issues and those who genuinely suffer with them. Sometimes, a hate filled scumbag is just a hate filled scumbag...... there’s no mental health issues at play.

_Kaiser_

Polar101 wrote: »

Seems like it might have been the right approach not to escalate things.

Even though some of the scenes in Hartstown were shocking, and should not be tolerated at all.

I'm still not too sure what the "justice for George" demonstrators actually want - his actions caused his death. There will be an investigation, but then what?

If the funding page is any indication no doubt they will try for a big payout in court if an investigation suggested they might have a case.

There'll no doubt be plenty of lawyers willing to help, and lots of misguided people happy to help fund it.

walshb

bubblypop wrote: »

Gardai have discretion and they use their common sense. So yea, they actually do choose

They do not have discretion to not act if the safety of the public is jeopardised. If laws are being clearly broken they must act...

They have discretion in how they may act, but they cannot NOT act...

lawrencesummers

The extend of, or lack thereof the mental issues this guy was experiencing are important as far as I’m concerned.

B.A._Baracus

It appears Eurospar Hartstown is still closed right now. Just went by it.

I know for a fact they shut their doors yesterday afternoon and didn't open for the rest of the day. They usually stay open until 10pm every night. So I guess it's safe to assume they have been shut all day and since yesterday.

boetstark

[too right it's a criminal offence. Its crazy that you can be fined for having a friend or relation in your house, yet this carry on yesterday goes unchecked. I couldn't give a damn if people feel incited let cops do their job. We left SA years ago to get away from this crap. I tell you give black Africans an inch and you are storing future trouble.

Authorities might be afraid to do anything in case it incites further tensions.....I hope this is not the case.

Notwithstanding the fact that is exactly what this group are doing....but sure let them at it in case rightfully challenging them might worsen the situation....i say this tongue in cheek.....I hope this hate speech legislation when it can be is applied equally to both sides or else it doesnt have the value of toilet paper.[/quote]

Signore Fancy Pants

Have donated to Waynes gofundme.

Have reported the Nchenko one due to their supporters racial comments, attacks and calls for harm against AGS. Its morally wrong to financially support them. Will let ye know if theres any response.

screamer

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The extend of, or lack thereof the mental issues this guy was experiencing are important as far as I’m concerned.

Maybe in the cold light of day, but when faced with this guy, who couldn’t be reasoned with, couldn’t be persuaded to drop the knife, was moving to attack gardai, and had already violently assaulted someone, in that moment, it doesn’t matter. Preservation of life over his mental health is all that can be considered.
But again, we’ll never know it’ll be kept confidential.

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

Dear God, will you please stop talking about the law when you are clearly totally clueless on the subject.

Gardase their discretion every single day.

Who said they cannot use discretion?

Please show me where Gardai can refuse to act to uphold our laws without a very valid reason? There may be some extraordinary scenarios whereby they are unable to act. Unable being the word..

walshb

walshb wrote: »

They do not have discretion to not act if the safety of the public is jeopardised. If laws are being clearly broken they must act...

They have discretion in how they may act, but they cannot NOT act...

If you don't know what you are talking about, you should say nothing.

Polar101

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

It appears Eurospar Hartstown is still closed right now. Just went by it.

They were meant to be open from 9am to 7pm on New Year's Day (today) - not sure if they were or not, I didn't feel like heading that way for some reason.

B.A._Baracus

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Have donated to Waynes gofundme.

Have reported the Nchenko one due to their supporters racial comments, attacks and calls for harm against AGS. Its morally wrong to financially support them. Will let ye know if theres any response.

We live in a mad world don't we.
When someone uses a knife on somebody in a shop, then goes toe to toe with armed Garda later, gets killed and then a gofundme is made and it has no problems getting it's ever expanding target/goal for funeral costs.

World's mad.

Signore Fancy Pants

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Have donated to Waynes gofundme.

Have reported the Nchenko one due to their supporters racial comments, attacks and calls for harm against AGS. Its morally wrong to financially support them. Will let ye know if theres any response.

Which one is it so I can report it too? Can the video of him be linked to the ones running the website?

kravmaga

newmember? wrote: »

Seems mental health problems run in the family.

I bet no one is working in the family and all on state assistance or on courses , feel sorry for the decent neighbours stuck living beside them.

What a mess.

Just seen this on Niall Boylans Twitter Account, this could be the deceased brother making very serious threats against AGS.

This is getting out of control now, needs to be nipped in the bud.

https://twitter.com/Niall_Boylan/status/1345072193206693893/video/1

OS_Head

boetstark wrote: »

Authorities might be afraid to do anything in case it incites further tensions.....I hope this is not the case.

I think it's more a case of how much the authorities feel they can get away with without doing anything. I'm am sure this is the case.

bubblypop

bubblypop wrote: »

If you don't know what you are talking about, you should say nothing.

Then take your own advice. Non action is treated the same as taking action. They have to have good reasons not to as much as they have to have good reasons for doing something.

screamer

boetstark wrote: »

[too right it's a criminal offence. Its crazy that you can be fined for having a friend or relation in your house, yet this carry on yesterday goes unchecked. I couldn't give a damn if people feel incited let cops do their job. We left SA years ago to get away from this crap. I tell you give black Africans an inch and you are storing future trouble.

Authorities might be afraid to do anything in case it incites further tensions.....I hope this is not the case.

Notwithstanding the fact that is exactly what this group are doing....but sure let them at it in case rightfully challenging them might worsen the situation....i say this tongue in cheek.....I hope this hate speech legislation when it can be is applied equally to both sides or else it doesnt have the value of toilet paper.

[/quote]

Yep. unfortunately Irish people are gonna have to learn the lessons the hard way, they’ve not a clue what they’re up against

walshb

bubblypop wrote: »

If you don't know what you are talking about, you should say nothing.

That’s not really an answer..

Can you show me where Gardai can refuse to act to uphold our laws? Pick and choose when to uphold our laws?

Not talking about discretion here. Talking about refusal.

lawrencesummers

screamer wrote: »

Maybe in the cold light of day, but when faced with this guy, who couldn’t be reasoned with, couldn’t be persuaded to drop the knife, was moving to attack gardai, and had already violently assaulted someone, in that moment, it doesn’t matter. Preservation of life over his mental health is all that can be considered.
But again, we’ll never know it’ll be kept confidential.

I wonder if some people should be allowed out at all, that could be where our mental health services are falling down. If this George is apparently put on bail for a violent crime and has a history of mental issues should he even be allowed out on bail????

The guy that killed Det. Horkan is a mental patient now, but maybe he should have been put into care long before.

B.A._Baracus

Polar101 wrote: »

They were meant to be open from 9am to 7pm on New Year's Day (today) - not sure if they were or not, I didn't feel like heading that way for some reason.

Ah. That's probably it so.
Very quiet there at the moment. Just the takeaway open and off license.

screamer

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I wonder if some people should be allowed out at all, that could be where our mental health services are falling down. If this George is apparently put on bail for a violent crime and has a history of mental issues should he even be allowed out on bail????

The guy that killed Det. Horkan is a mental patient now, but maybe he should have been put into care long before.

For sure 100% agree with you, again goes back to stupid policies of closing down institutions and taking the “be grand” approach in politics.

Gothic Insanity

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

It appears Eurospar Hartstown is still closed right now. Just went by it.

I know for a fact they shut their doors yesterday afternoon and didn't open for the rest of the day. They usually stay open until 10pm every night. So I guess it's safe to assume they have been shut all day and since yesterday.

Feel sad for them. Imagine attacking a victim, they should get support in this.

How come a guy gets his jaw broken and nose but nobody is actually caring about this? No tweets from any TDs I've seen or "influencers" saying anything of note about the guy in hospital.

UDAWINNER

Is anyone talking about the poor guy who got attacked that was doing his job. you know the victim of an unprovoked assault by a thug.You'd swear the guy shot was an innocent bystander ffs.
Issues with Mental health is just being used as an excuse, he was just a criminal and being used is an insult to people with actual mental health issues

gozunda

RWCNT wrote: »

No, the definition posted doesn't include profession or occupation, you're just deciding that it does. You don't appear to be able to offer anything to support that statement other than repeating "it does", and as you're making the accusation, the burden of proof is on you. Under your interpretation of that definition of hate speech I'm engaging in hate speech if I say that I think acupuncturists are psuedo-scientific frauds or that MOT mechanics are money grubbing opportunistic ****ers. Neither is as severe an accusation as saying they're out there killing people, but that makes no odds to the definition you're working from. It's a bit weird you've picked the UN definition anyway which only appears to be for the purposes of a document outlining their plans to address it rather than our country's own planned hate speech legislation or those of our closest neighbour which absolutely don't include profession or occupation as a protected characteristic.

Oddly enough you've unilaterally decided that occupation does not constitute an 'identity factor" as per the UN definition. So I'm afraid I'll pass back that burden of proof to your good self as you're the one getting into apparent knots about it.

Btw a search for "hate speech definition" gives the first result as the UNs own definition. Our own still hasn't been passed so is moot at this point.

More importantly than any arguing over the semantics of 'identity factors' or who can or who can't be affected by 'hate speech' - ask yourself why describing an entire group as 'racists' and 'killing all blacks' (or wtte) both which are criminal offences - is in of itself not "hate crime"?

Btw Your own examples calling people ****ers etc fall short because they belong largely to the realm of defamation and libel

That the use of such speech aimed at spreading hate by accusing an entire group of "racism" and "killing all blacks" - is being promoted by an online group (who support the abolition of the Gardai) encouraging those actively protected against hate speech, to spread hate against another group (ie the Gardai) doesn't somehow strike you as intrinsically and morally wrong?

And that friend goes to the very heart of this matter. The sooner we realise that the better imo.

A2LUE42

UDAWINNER wrote: »

Is anyone talking about the poor guy who got attacked that was doing his job. you know the victim of an unprovoked assault by a thug.You'd swear the guy shot was an innocent bystander ffs.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-wayne-in-his-recovery?utm_campaign=m_pd+share-sheet&utm_medium=copy_link_all&utm_source=customer

deathbomber

screamer wrote: »

Yep. unfortunately Irish people are gonna have to learn the lessons the hard way, they’ve not a clue what they’re up against[/QUOTE]

Rubbish, they the race on question are a minority here, eventually i can see it going a little like London but in the end, any trouble will be dealt with should it arise, either by the Garda or the people!

walshb

walshb wrote: »

That’s not really an answer..

Can you show me where Gardai can refuse to act to uphold our laws? Pick and choose when to uphold our laws?

Not talking about discretion here. Talking about refusal.

Do you want to point out where gardai refused to uphold the law?

oldtimeyfella

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

We live in a mad world don't we.
When someone uses a knife on somebody in a shop, then goes toe to toe with armed Garda later, gets killed and then a gofundme is made and it has no problems getting it's ever expanding target/goal for funeral costs.

World's mad.

Welcome to Clown World!


*honk honk*

screamer

deathbomber wrote: »

Yep. unfortunately Irish people are gonna have to learn the lessons the hard way, they’ve not a clue what they’re up against

Rubbish, they the race on question are a minority here, eventually i can see it going a little like London but in the end, any trouble will be dealt with should it arise, either by the Garda or the people![/quote]

I wish that were the case, poor gardai have their hands tied, and the justice minister sympathising with the criminals family, whilst also planning hate speech laws and God only knows what else to make some more equal than others and right that wrong for all time.... I despair