George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

BattleCorp

Lumen wrote: »

It hasn't been established what his reasons for carrying the knife were, that's conjecture.

Doesn't matter if he had it to butter his toast. He tried to stab the Gardai with it. That's reason enough for me for the actions the Gardai took.

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

It hasn't been established what his reasons for carrying the knife were, that's conjecture.

Well, it has though? He used the knife to rob the shop? That doesn’t take a veteran detective to deduce.

If he’d tried to rob the spar unarmed he’d have been laughed at, battered, arrested or all three. He certainly wouldn’t have had any success at all.

walshb

Is all this back and forth about knives and carrying and reasons relevant?

The man is dead. There won’t be a trial, defense, his version ..

I think it’s quite clear that he was on a crime spree..and he was carrying a dangerous weapon, and not a butter knife..

whisky_galore

Lumen wrote: »

It hasn't been established what his reasons for carrying the knife were, that's conjecture.

What were his reasons for waving it around?
Was it interpretive dance?

givyjoe

Lumen wrote: »

It hasn't been established what his reasons for carrying the knife were, that's conjecture.

Seriously, do you have an actual legal background or are you just spouting things you've seen on law and order?

enricoh

Kimbot wrote: »

Oh I forgot, George was carrying a knife to butter his toast later in the day.......

The toast wasn't for him, it was for the homeless, that's the sorta guy he was!

Beltby

Lumen wrote: »

It hasn't been established what his reasons for carrying the knife were, that's conjecture.

Regardless of whether you have a valid reason to carry a bladed article or not, if you are instructed by garda to put it down, you put it down. You don't swing it violently around at people.

givyjoe

givyjoe wrote: »

Seriously, do you have an actual legal background or are you just spouting things you've seen on law and order?

Which do you think? :pac:

gozunda

Lumen wrote: »

The other relevance of the machete is that it plays into racist stereotypes of the black savage. Earlier in the thread someone drew a line to Hutu massacres in the Congo. I don't know of any genocides effected using butterknives.

I call bs on that. A machete is a traditional type of knife used to cut dense vegetation. I have one myself for that specific purpose and something which is securely kept out of harms way. Afaik they are illegal to carry here. That said doesn't stop it being one if the favourite weapons of brawling gangs in this country. Do a search for machete and garda if you are in any doubt.

Tbh that whole conversation is disingenuous. What has been reported that he was brandishing a large knife. Whether that fits with the description of a machete or otherwise is yet to be seen.

Where is this official report or recognised media source are you getting your 'butter knife' from exactly or is that just an attempt to once again paint the perpetrator as not threatening staff and garda into one big racist conspiracy?

walshb

Btw, in all the pages of posts..

Has suicide by cop been mentioned?

JupiterKid

This violent criminal got what he deserved.

He went out on a rampage, attacked a shop assistant, lunged at the Gardai with a machete knife and all other options at subduing him were tried and failed. Of course there will be an investigation - there has to be. I'm also.quite sure the Gardai will be shown to have been well within their rights to have shot this guy to stop him attacking another person.

His race/ethnicity should not even be an issue here. But unfortunately, and sadly rather predictably, it has. If he were white the same outcome would have resulted and the story would be buried within a day or two.

Of course, this killing has allowed the thugs to go on a rampage claiming "racism." If anything good comes out of this unfortunate incident, it's that the Irish public will now be aware of the fact that in parts of Dublin 15 as well as elsewhere in Ireland, a ticking time bomb is on the verge of exploding.

PearseCork92

Lumen wrote: »

It hasn't been established what his reasons for carrying the knife were, that's conjecture.

This is a Lionel Hutz line of argument.

Your honour, my client was innocently on his way home from a sushi-making competition after finishing a disappointing 4th carrying his oversized sushi knife.

Is there any actual proof that george nkencho had previous convictions?

I did a search on Google but found nothing!

Larbre34

There are a few apologists for the knife wielding (!) here that conveniently forget, this incident unfolded over something like 90 mins from the shops at Hartstown to the house at Manorfields.

Its absolutely safe to assume that Nkencho was ordered dozens, if not hundreds of times to drop the blade he was carrying. If you don't believe these professionally trained armed Gardaí tried every trick in their operating procedures to reduce the threat and end it safely for everyone, then you're being deliberately obtuse.

Kivaro

Deleted User wrote: »

Is there any actual proof that george nkencho had previous convictions?

I did a search on Google but found nothing!

Would a Google result provide you with the "actual" proof that you were looking for, LightOfTruth?

Lumen

Larbre34 wrote: »

There are a few apologists for the knife wielding (!) here

Nobody has apologised for knife wielding.

Kivaro

Kivaro wrote: »

Would a Google result provide you with the "actual" proof that you were looking for, LightOfTruth?

What do you mean?

Gothic Insanity

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/george-nkencho-shooting-inquiry-will-look-at-graduated-use-of-force-1.4448355

Finally a little sense about this! Even though there maybe elements some may not be happy with.

hometruths

Cannot believe I have read page after page of posts from people talking about butter knives. It's insane.

If the gardai were in the habit of shooting people they come across carrying small knives, it would be such a regular occurrence the news story would attract no more attention than a road traffic incident.

This story was a massive deal before the woke mob got involved precisely because gardai using lethal force is incredibly rare. This is a good thing. As is the fact that the mans death triggers an automatic inquiry to ensure the force was justified.

Now the social justice warriors have taken over the story they are riling up black gangs accusing the gardai of racism.

The woke mob should be careful what they wish for. If black kids get riled up and run amok, the gardai may indeed form an opinion based on stereotypes.

The idea that the gardai are currently institutionally racist is bonkers.

Based on the last few days the idea that they might become racist in the future is very credible.

Signore Fancy Pants

Lumen wrote: »

It hasn't been established what his reasons for carrying the knife were, that's conjecture.

Conjecture? Nah.

Primarily because of context, as in he had just assaulted a man in a shop while being in possession of a knife.

Also, not releasing custody of the knife when directed by AGS.

Also, while the video doing the rounds fails to display definitive detail of the impliment he is attempting to use against AGS, for use here, there is enough context to assess that it is a realistic possibility he is using the knife against AGS.

This should be finally supported by armed AGS actions on the day, it is highly doubtful that the deployment of lethal force would be a consideration against an unarmed man.

newmember2

Larbre34 wrote: »

...this incident unfolded over something like 90 mins from the shops at Hartstown to the house at Manorfields.

Its absolutely safe to assume that Nkencho was ordered dozens, if not hundreds of times to drop the blade he was carrying....

I saw the two times of 12:15PM and 12:35PM mentioned.

Lest we forget a detective died not long ago because a scumbag took his own gun from him and shot him..the gardai have that in mind now always, it was this eejit or the gardai himself. Mental health me hole, sue what normal person does this anyway, of course he had issues, with society and his place in it...

nullzero

Lumen wrote: »

Nobody has apologised for knife wielding.

To quote you AGAIN ; "Quote: Lumen
I have made no such argument. I simply said that carrying a machete was technically indefensible, whereas carrying a large knife was not."

amacca

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Conjecture? Um, thats not really a plausable denial.

Primarily because of context, as in he had just assaulted a man in a shop while being in possession of a knife.

Also, not releasing custody of the knife when directed by AGS.

Also, while the video doing the rounds fails to display definitive detail of the impliment he is attempting to use against AGS, for use here, there is enough context to assess that it is a realistic possibility he is using the knife against AGS.

This should be finally supported by armed AGS actions on the day, it is highly doubtful that the deployment of lethal force would be a consideration against an unarmed man.

If you sit back and have an honest think about it yourself, you can see where you are probably wrong.

No no in fairness all the above is just circumstantial and conjecture really

For all we know he could have been a knife enthusiast and mistook the local spar for a forge where he intended to get the blade tempered.

Lumen

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Conjecture? Um, thats not really a plausable denial.

Denial of what? I was simply making the point that there is a distinction in law between something which is by definition an offensive weapon vs something which is by circumstance an offensive weapon, a question which was raised by another poster.

I agree with everything else you've posted, apart from me being wrong obviously. :pac:

Green Peter

Lumen wrote: »

Denial of what? I was simply making the point that there is a distinction in law between something which is by definition an offensive weapon vs something which is by circumstance an offensive weapon, a question which was raised by another poster.

I agree with everything else you've posted, apart from me being wrong obviously. :pac:

It's clear to everyone the knife in this case was being used as a weapon. End of story.

nullzero

Lumen wrote: »

Denial of what? I was simply making the point that there is a distinction in law between something which is by definition an offensive weapon vs something which is by circumstance an offensive weapon, a question which was raised by another poster.

I agree with everything else you've posted, apart from me being wrong obviously. :pac:

Nobody can carry a knife without a valid reason.
In this case the Gardai informed the man to drop the knife. They deemed it to be an offensive weapon. You are wrong.

titan18

Kivaro wrote: »

Would a Google result provide you with the "actual" proof that you were looking for, LightOfTruth?

Generally you'd find previous court reports tbf. I couldn't find any either.


Also, good to see the Wayne gofundme is coming up to 10k and been closing in on the George funeral one.

Buddy Bubs

Just skipped up to this point on thread and it seems be a legal argument on what's a knife and whats a machete.

2 points...

1 - the garda will have the weapon and it will be decided if it was capable of causing serious injury or death to a garda or to members of the public.

2- it doesn't matter if it was a machete or a knife. I don't own a machete but I do know I own many implements in my kitchen and in my shed that I could use to kill. I also have implements where if 15 people surrounded me I could get a decent shot in to 1 of them at least as they tried to take me down physically at close contact. However, I never take them off my property for a trip to spar.

3 points actually...I doubt the implement in question could be used to add any dairy products to any baked products.

Signore Fancy Pants

Lumen wrote: »

Denial of what? I was simply making the point that there is a distinction in law between something which is by definition an offensive weapon vs something which is by circumstance an offensive weapon, a question which was raised by another poster.

I agree with everything else you've posted, apart from me being wrong obviously. :pac:

Oops my bad, saw your post in isolation! I should have paid more attention, sorry.