George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

Omackeral

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

A Jamaican living in Dublin speaks out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-k1AdFnLbc

Seems like this clown has removed his video.

PalLimerick

Grayditch wrote: »

Ruth Coppinger is a good person and does good things for the community, but I feel she dropped the ball badly here. She deleted her post on Facebook and as far as I can see so did Brid Smith. Can't help but estimate they have lost a massive amount of support from the community by throwing the Gardai under the bus before an investigation is made. Its just a bad, bad move.

She is total tool which her opinion on #StGeorge proved.

daheff

Lumen wrote: »

That's harsh, blaming family and friends for failing to treat his mental illness.
.

Did they seek help from anywhere to treat his mental illnesses?

PalLimerick

Grab All Association wrote: »

I said it here a few days ago that I was in no doubt this man was suffering from severe mental health issues. The way he lunged at AGS and brutally attacked Wayne in Eurospar from the accounts of Waynes co-worker.

Mental illness doesn’t give indemnity to one of facing consequences of their actions though. George was failed for sure, but not by An Garda Siochana. It would’ve started with his family, friends and at a state level the Health Service Executive.

For years the HSE have been cutting funding from mental health services. Take my home town of Thurles for example, staff shortages and the closure of psychiatric hospital in Clonmel meant people with moderate to severe mental health problems were bused into the town at 9am for medications and left to roam Liberty Square until 5pm.

A young school girl I know from nearby Drombane was assaulted by one of these St. Mary’s patients because she was laughing on the phone to her friend about something. The man who is in his 60s and well known to be violent came up and punched her in the face accusing her of laughing at him. My father was almost attacked by one of these patients because he was hearing voices he presumed was my dad. It got so bad that at one point Bus Éireann temporarily moved bus scoile services into the yards of the school. With Covid around, thankfully they aren’t bringing these patients into the town anymore.

“Care in the community“ is a scam to divert resources to other parts of the HSE (mostly admin) These people were institutionalised for good reason for the safety of the general public.

God love poor George, sarcasm intended.

PalLimerick

tdf7187 wrote: »

He did not have any criminal convictions.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-worry-over-nkencho-shooting-lies-39924798.html

So.

wandererz

Lumen wrote: »

This is odd, because we appear to be watching the same videos but seeing different things.

The video with sound is the same as the one without. The one with sound starts with the first shot, more or less at the same time George swings his arms. There will be a slight delay due to sound propagation, maybe up to half a second, so the shot actually happened a fraction of a second before you hear it.

In any case, it shows nothing prior to the first shot.

What are you seeing?

I am seeing a right handed man violently and forcefully swinging, what we now know to be a large bladed instrument, at a member of the police forces who were there to protect him and other members of the public.

Burkie1203

SouthWesterly wrote: »

Just for balance she goes on to say...


Folks just to be clear (since I know some have a tendency to twist my words here), I can't stop anyone from going out to protest, I would rather everyone stays at home since we're back in level 5 but if you are to do it please do so safely and peacefully.

She shouldn't be encouraging protests. End of.

Pandemic ongoing
Hospitals filling up fast


She is a stupid idiot

Lumen

daheff wrote: »

Did they seek help from anywhere to treat his mental illnesses?

That's not how mental health services work, in my experience.

As soon as the person is an adult, they have to take responsibility for their own care and the most that family members can do is assist and support from the sidelines, and occasionally participate in certain types of therapy with the consent of the adult in question and professionals involved. Care and treatment is provided confidentially, and you have no right to know what's going on.

Additionally, if there is any substance abuse involved a diagnosis is impossible, and drugs can be a factor particularly in times of crisis (though I'm talking in general terms, as I know nothing about this case).

This stuff is not straightforward at all.

Burkie1203

Minnie Snuggles wrote: »

He was out on bail, he had 32 criminal convictions, how many more do you need.

Gardai have debunked 32 conviction nonsense.

He tried to kill a gardai having threatened members of the public with a knife after assaulting someone quite seriously.


Also, the Nkencho family solicitor released a statement. If they have a family solicitor they don't need a gofundme page for funeral costs

Lumen

wandererz wrote: »

I am seeing a right handed man violently and forcefully swinging, what we now know to be a large bladed instrument, at a member of the police forces who were there to protect him and other members of the public.

And you hear the shots, right?

I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse or have the sound off.

JeffKenna

Lumen wrote: »

That's not how mental health services work, in my experience.

As soon as the person is an adult, they have to take responsibility for their own care and the most that family members can do is assist and support from the sidelines, and occasionally participate in certain types of therapy with the consent of the adult in question and professionals involved. Care and treatment is provided confidentially, and you have no right to know what's going on.

Additionally, if there is any substance abuse involved a diagnosis is impossible, and drugs can be a factor particularly in times of crisis (though I'm talking in general terms, as I know nothing about this case).

This stuff is not straightforward at all.

Ah now, if he has a history of mental health issues that lead to behaviour like the last day then they surely would have got him sectioned?

Lumen

JeffKenna wrote: »

Ah now, if he has a history of mental health issues that lead to behaviour like the last day then they surely would have got him sectioned?

It is extremely difficult to get someone sectioned.

JeffKenna

Lumen wrote: »

It is extremely difficult to get someone sectioned.

Indeed, but it's for severe cases like this where the individual is a danger to themselves/others.

carq

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Gardai have debunked 32 conviction nonsense.

He tried to kill a gardai having threatened members of the public with a knife after assaulting someone quite seriously.


Also, the Nkencho family solicitor released a statement. If they have a family solicitor they don't need a gofundme page for funeral costs

A ‘well placed security source’ has said there are no convictions. Dont think Gardai have released anything.


Today is the day of the planned Garda station siege /protest?

Lumen

JeffKenna wrote: »

Indeed, but it's for severe cases like this where the individual is a danger to themselves/others.

It is still extremely difficult.

DellyBelly

Minnie Snuggles wrote: »

I understand your wanting to turn this into a mental health issue (maybe to you this is the only way you can understand or justify his actions), the simple fact is, he should not have been out on bail.

If that's true than the bail process needs to be looked. You hear of so many people continue carrying out crimes while out on bail.. Crazy

ElJeffe

I'm heartened by how quick these protests have petered out. It seems to have been just a bad element of nick knacks and the usual few rent a cause crusties. The general public know the score and support our Gardai and the great work they do.

JeffKenna

Lumen wrote: »

It is still extremely difficult.

Yes, but it's for cases exactly like this.

Nozebleed

daheff wrote: »

Did they seek help from anywhere to treat his mental illnesses?

is there any medical evidence/proof this man was suffering from a mental illness?

his actions on the day wouldn't suffice as evidence..any medical records availble?

Lumen

JeffKenna wrote: »

Yes, but it's for cases exactly like this.

But I don't know what happened prior to this, and I doubt you do either.

The state deprives people of their liberty only as an absolutely last resort.

Nozebleed

Lumen wrote: »

But I don't know what happened prior to this, and I doubt you do either.

The state deprives people of their liberty only as an absolutely last resort.

what about people who are jailed for not paying the TV licence?

celt262

Nozebleed wrote: »

is there any medical evidence/proof this man was suffering from a mental illness?

his actions on the day wouldn't suffice as evidence..any medical records availble?

Why are we importing people with mental health issues anyway we have enough issues in this country without imported them aswell.

JeffKenna

Lumen wrote: »

But I don't know what happened prior to this, and I doubt you do either.

The state deprives people of their liberty only as an absolutely last resort.

I don't know what happened before, I can only go by what his family said in regard to him having a mental illness. If he has shown this level of aggression before due to a mental illness then he would be sectioned.

Burkie1203

ElJeffe wrote: »

I'm heartened by how quick these protests have petered out. It seems to have been just a bad element of nick knacks and the usual few rent a cause crusties. The general public know the score and support our Gardai and the great work they do.

Don't be surprised if it rears up again though.

Lumen

JeffKenna wrote: »

I don't know what happened before, I can only go by what his family said in regard to him having a mental illness. If he has shown this level of aggression before due to a mental illness then he would be sectioned.

It is quite possible for someone to self harm up to and including multiple suicide attempts, and physically assault other people on multiple occasions whilst appearing deranged, and not get sectioned, and also not get a diagnosis of mental illness. However, since he apparently had no prior prosecutions, I would guess that he didn't get this bad before, whether mental illness is a contributing factor or not.

In any case, I'm simply making the point that blaming the family is out of order.

Nalz

Nozebleed wrote: »

is there any medical evidence/proof this man was suffering from a mental illness?

his actions on the day wouldn't suffice as evidence..any medical records availble?

<snip>

Paddygreen

Nozebleed wrote: »

what about people who are jailed for not paying the TV licence?

Throw away the key. Paying for that vital service is a term and condition of living in Ireland, didn’t you know? Do you think the Death Numbers show pays for itself? Do you?

JeffKenna

Lumen wrote: »

It is quite possible for someone to self harm up to and including multiple suicide attempts, and physically assault other people on multiple occasions whilst appearing deranged, and not get sectioned, and also not get a diagnosis of mental illness. However, since he apparently had no prior prosecutions, I would guess that he didn't get this bad before, whether mental illness is a contributing factor or not.

In any case, I'm simply making the point that blaming the family is out of order.

I don't know, the very first thing the family said was that he had mental health issues. I think it's a very reasonable question to ask what they did to help.

Collie D

Darc19 wrote: »

Plenty of regular white scum that have put plenty of people in hospital including travellers, Sinn Fein councillors and "normal scangers"

Then you have the husbands and partners of women who beat them up.

And you have Blackrock college boys "having fun" by hospitalising some guys they have a disagreement with.

Maybe they should all be executed?

Oh, forgot, none of them are black.

He wasn’t executed.

In an ideal world he dropped the knife and had his day in court. In the real world he didn’t drop the knife and the Guards used force to stop him before he injured or killed one of them.

His skin colour is irrelevant.

wandererz

Lumen wrote: »

And you hear the shots, right?

I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse or have the sound off.

What exactly is your point?
You want to see video prior to that?
Not sure if Gardai wear body cams.

If video hasn't come out as yet then possibly have to time travel back and position oneself appropriately.

If one had to "guess" then he displayed threatening behaviour to the Gardai. He failed to lay down his weapon and proceeded to attempt to enter a premises / home.

At which point he was shot at.
He then turned around and attacked the Gard immediately behind him with the weapon.