George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

Kraftwerk

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

I think this has been clear from the get go. Extremists gonna extreme and try to make political hay from a tragedy.

Yep. On one side you've those who immediately and without any evidence turned it into a race issue like Coppinger, Murphy, Joseph, Chu and fed the angry response. And even now are legitimising protesting during the worst stage of the pandemic putting further lives at risk. On the other side people putting out lies to feed the anger on the "scumbag got what he deserves" crowd.

People should just stick to facts. A guy assaulted multiple people including attacking gardai with a large knife, gardai tried multiple non lethal options to disarm him over a long period and ultimately it resulted in his death. Nothing to do with race or previous convictions.

piplip87

piplip87 wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gardai-had-to-shoot-george-nkencho-under-public-safety-protocols-wkg5vk6mf

This possibly explains why the shooting happened. According to this the family had a protection order taken out on Saint George. He did not live at the address and they have been called numerous to deal with disturbances.

Possibly their number one aim here was protecting the family who have had to take steps to ensure their safety previously.

While its tragic a young man is dead, I feel if he got into the house and killed somebody the same people protesting this would be protesting their deaths too.

This was not race related.

Makes it look all the worse on the headcases pushing the race agenda.

CrazyFather1

Mimon wrote: »

If this pans out to be accurate it's even more baffling then that the family would react like it was an unjustified shooting.

The family sat in the house, seemingly according to supporters recording what was going on, never went out to help or calm him down.

If he was such a lovely person why didn't any of them go out to assist?

You have a video of someone, I guess the lovely brother, sitting up stairs recording his brother dying on his phone? how sick in the head would you have to be to do that, then even worse release it out to the general public

Cilldara_2000

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

It follows the story line that poor old George wouldn't hurt a fly. Was out picking daisy on a nice walk when the Garda just pulled out, seen he was black and riddled him with bullets......15 Garda in fact riddled him

Mick Collins would not be impressed. :pac:

(Sorry any time I see anything about people being "riddled", I'm always reminded of that clip.)

Donald Trump

Northernlily wrote: »

Makes it look all the worse on the headcases pushing the race agenda.

More consistent with the fact that the family appeared to have been happy to video the ongoings through the window rather than open the door.

CrazyFather1

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Mick Collins would not be impressed. :pac:

(Sorry any time I see anything about people being "riddled", I'm always reminded of that clip.)

That clip might have popped into my head :P

walshb

Indo page 2 saying George had no convictions to his name.

Donald Trump

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

The term in jail would be questionable but he would end up with a conviction that is 100% sure.

The family appeared to be fairly quick off the mark rolling out the oul' mental health angle.


He wouldn't be the first person to walk away more or less scot free based on "mental health" reasons

PokeHerKing

walshb wrote: »

Indo page 2 saying George had no convictions to his name.

More breaking news- Walshb hasn't read the last few pages of the thread.

alias no.9

Kraftwerk wrote: »

Yep. On one side you've those who immediately and without any evidence turned it into a race issue like Coppinger, Murphy, Joseph, Chu and fed the angry response. And even now are legitimising protesting during the worst stage of the pandemic putting further lives at risk. On the other side people putting out lies to feed the anger on the "scumbag got what he deserves" crowd.

People should just stick to facts. A guy assaulted multiple people including attacking gardai with a large knife, gardai tried multiple non lethal options to disarm him over a long period and ultimately it resulted in his death. Nothing to do with race or previous convictions.

On one side we have a a bunch of elected officials and on the other side, some mouthy morons who are unknown and unelectable. Is it unreasonable to expect more from the elected officials?

walshb

PokeHerKing wrote: »

More breaking news- Walshb hasn't read the last few pages of the thread.

I know. Had feeling it was already reported..

Just too lazy to read back!

Ginger n Lemon

Question I have is why shoot 5 times, hitting him 3 times? Are they really that poorly trained they are unable to shoot him in a shoulder once and see the reaction?

Thing I am most concerned about is that 12 gardai were unable to disarm him. Like I see tons of posts here "I support Gardai" but arent they actually trained for situations like this? If they are - they've failed. I know they've been mad busy asking motorists where they are going at checkpoints this year etc. but have they lost the ability to execute the very thing they are mandated to - to keep every citizen safe?

nullzero

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Question I have is why shoot 5 times, hitting him 3 times? Are they really that poorly trained they are unable to shoot him in a shoulder once and see the reaction?

Thing I am most concerned about is that 12 gardai were unable to disarm him. Like I see tons of posts here "I support Gardai" but arent they actually trained for situations like this? If they are - they've failed. I know they've been mad busy asking motorists where they are going at checkpoints this year etc. but have they lost the ability to execute the very thing they are mandated to - to keep every citizen safe?

What would you do Rambo?

_Kaiser_

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Question I have is why shoot 5 times, hitting him 3 times? Are they really that poorly trained they are unable to shoot him in a shoulder once and see the reaction?

Thing I am most concerned about is that 12 gardai were unable to disarm him. Like I see tons of posts here "I support Gardai" but arent they actually trained for situations like this? If they are - they've failed. I know they've been mad busy asking motorists where they are going at checkpoints this year etc. but have they lost the ability to execute the very thing they are mandated to - to keep every citizen safe?

Shooting him in the shoulder or the leg or whatever is movie stuff. Armed police are trained to shoot for the centre mass. Too much risk of missing otherwise and perhaps injuring or killing someone else.

I'm critical of the Gardai on many things but on this one they acted properly and with no other option from what I've read/seen

Kivaro

piplip87 wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gardai-had-to-shoot-george-nkencho-under-public-safety-protocols-wkg5vk6mf

This possibly explains why the shooting happened. According to this the family had a protection order taken out on Saint George. He did not live at the address and they have been called numerous to deal with disturbances.

Possibly their number one aim here was protecting the family who have had to take steps to ensure their safety previously.

While its tragic a young man is dead, I feel if he got into the house and killed somebody the same people protesting this would be protesting their deaths too.

This was not race related.

Isn't it curious, that once again the Irish public need to rely on an English newspaper to order to get unbiased reporting on a news story that features Africans in Ireland? It was also The Times that reported the news about the Social Democrats candidate who lied on her asylum application. Why are we not seeing similar unbiased reports from our main stream media?

The headline of the above article by the way states:
Gardai ‘had to shoot’ George Nkencho under public safety protocols.

So it had nothing to do with his race; irrespective of what progressives like Hazel Chu and Lynn Ruane would like to believe. Hope that these fine people are remembered when they try to run for "elected" office.

mightyreds

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Question I have is why shoot 5 times, hitting him 3 times? Are they really that poorly trained they are unable to shoot him in a shoulder once and see the reaction?

Thing I am most concerned about is that 12 gardai were unable to disarm him. Like I see tons of posts here "I support Gardai" but arent they actually trained for situations like this? If they are - they've failed. I know they've been mad busy asking motorists where they are going at checkpoints this year etc. but have they lost the ability to execute the very thing they are mandated to - to keep every citizen safe?

First ones easy shoot until subdued or gun is empty.

Second one have you ever been attacked by a craziesd person with a knife??
Gards aren't all bruce lee in enter the dragon levels of trained.

Kraftwerk

alias no.9 wrote: »

On one side we have a a bunch of elected officials and on the other side, some mouthy morons who are unknown and unelectable. Is it unreasonable to expect more from the elected officials?

Not at all. And imo much more damage is done by those. Turning everything involving a black person into a racial issue is creating actually racial divisions in society and when it comes from elected representatives it legitimises it much more than unknown racist on twitter.

wandererz

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Question I have is why shoot 5 times, hitting him 3 times? Are they really that poorly trained they are unable to shoot him in a shoulder once and see the reaction?

Thing I am most concerned about is that 12 gardai were unable to disarm him. Like I see tons of posts here "I support Gardai" but arent they actually trained for situations like this? If they are - they've failed. I know they've been mad busy asking motorists where they are going at checkpoints this year etc. but have they lost the ability to execute the very thing they are mandated to - to keep every citizen safe?

Moving target, confined space, objects in way, colleagues close by.
Risk to colleagues. Risk of bullets entering home and hitting others.

Gothic Insanity

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Question I have is why shoot 5 times, hitting him 3 times? Are they really that poorly trained they are unable to shoot him in a shoulder once and see the reaction?

Thing I am most concerned about is that 12 gardai were unable to disarm him. Like I see tons of posts here "I support Gardai" but arent they actually trained for situations like this? If they are - they've failed. I know they've been mad busy asking motorists where they are going at checkpoints this year etc. but have they lost the ability to execute the very thing they are mandated to - to keep every citizen safe?

Because the rounds they use are small... And when aiming for the torso your not necessarily going to kill or incapacitate a person with one or 2 shots.

Donald Trump

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Question I have is why shoot 5 times, hitting him 3 times? Are they really that poorly trained they are unable to shoot him in a shoulder once and see the reaction?

Thing I am most concerned about is that 12 gardai were unable to disarm him. Like I see tons of posts here "I support Gardai" but arent they actually trained for situations like this? If they are - they've failed. I know they've been mad busy asking motorists where they are going at checkpoints this year etc. but have they lost the ability to execute the very thing they are mandated to - to keep every citizen safe?

Unfortunate choice of words there.


Moving target. Split second reactions. For all you know, one of the bullets did hit him in the shoulder.



What is the difference between firing five and hitting him with three and firing three and hitting him with three?

Mimon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Question I have is why shoot 5 times, hitting him 3 times? Are they really that poorly trained they are unable to shoot him in a shoulder once and see the reaction?

Thing I am most concerned about is that 12 gardai were unable to disarm him. Like I see tons of posts here "I support Gardai" but arent they actually trained for situations like this? If they are - they've failed. I know they've been mad busy asking motorists where they are going at checkpoints this year etc. but have they lost the ability to execute the very thing they are mandated to - to keep every citizen safe?

Not this again, go and educate yourself on why police forces will aim for the main body mass and come back and make an informed opinion please.

Tea drinker

NIMAN wrote: »

So the Gardai have said he had no previous convictions.

It appears there is a lot of disinformation on both sides of this argument.

The Gardai have not said this? The only info is unofficial rumour circulating on media sites like independent.ie
Correct me if I'm wrong but nothing has been ruled in or out by Gardai officially

deaddonkey15

piplip87 wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gardai-had-to-shoot-george-nkencho-under-public-safety-protocols-wkg5vk6mf

This possibly explains why the shooting happened. According to this the family had a protection order taken out on Saint George. He did not live at the address and they have been called numerous to deal with disturbances.

Possibly their number one aim here was protecting the family who have had to take steps to ensure their safety previously.

While its tragic a young man is dead, I feel if he got into the house and killed somebody the same people protesting this would be protesting their deaths too.

This was not race related.

Could be some substance to this. I’ve found something a bit ‘off’ with the response of his family to this whole incident. Recording the incident on their own doorstep instead of trying to de-escalate it (where’s their footage that proves he was unlawfully killed?), his brother laughing and enjoying his 15 mins of fame as a wannabe gangster at the protests the following day, no lovely family photos to accompany the butter wouldn’t melt in his mouth/much loved in the community image that people are trying to portray. The only photos I’ve seen are of him looking like a thug with his wannabe gangster friends, one of which is a Snapchat screenshot. I could be wrong but I don’t think I’ve seen or heard anything from his parents at all?

alias no.9

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Question I have is why shoot 5 times, hitting him 3 times? Are they really that poorly trained they are unable to shoot him in a shoulder once and see the reaction?

Thing I am most concerned about is that 12 gardai were unable to disarm him. Like I see tons of posts here "I support Gardai" but arent they actually trained for situations like this? If they are - they've failed. I know they've been mad busy asking motorists where they are going at checkpoints this year etc. but have they lost the ability to execute the very thing they are mandated to - to keep every citizen safe?

No amount of training can prepare you for the pressure of a live situation like this. Most armed Gardai will never open fire outside of the firing range ever.

As for shooting in the shoulder, can we not move on from the Hollywood nonsense, it's been done over and over?

Collie D

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Question I have is why shoot 5 times, hitting him 3 times? Are they really that poorly trained they are unable to shoot him in a shoulder once and see the reaction?

Thing I am most concerned about is that 12 gardai were unable to disarm him. Like I see tons of posts here "I support Gardai" but arent they actually trained for situations like this? If they are - they've failed. I know they've been mad busy asking motorists where they are going at checkpoints this year etc. but have they lost the ability to execute the very thing they are mandated to - to keep every citizen safe?

While a shoulder shot to disarm would have been the most preferable outcome I would also suggest you try giving it a go against someone moving about.

Miss, go through a window, hit some random innocent. There is a reason they aimed for the body.

hynesie08

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Question I have is why shoot 5 times, hitting him 3 times? Are they really that poorly trained they are unable to shoot him in a shoulder once and see the reaction?

Thing I am most concerned about is that 12 gardai were unable to disarm him. Like I see tons of posts here "I support Gardai" but arent they actually trained for situations like this? If they are - they've failed. I know they've been mad busy asking motorists where they are going at checkpoints this year etc. but have they lost the ability to execute the very thing they are mandated to - to keep every citizen safe?

Every trained shooter in the world is taught to aim for centre Mass, the idea that you can shoot clean through someones shoulder is fantasist nonsense......

How would you train gardai to disarm someone wielding a knife

banie01

PokeHerKing wrote: »

There's something off about that article. Its a peculiar statement to make by the Gards. Its one thing if he has no convictions but he is a criminal unless they're saying he wasn't responsible for the attack in the Spar?

He isn't tho, one doesn't become a "criminal" until they have faced a court and been convicted.

Now don't take that to mean I feel the Gardaí are in the wrong, or that the shooting was unjustified because I don't.

The simple legal fact is however, one is innocent until proven guilty.
The death of Mr Nkencho, means that he won't face a court and as such won't ever be found criminally liable.

Sir Oxman

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Question I have is why shoot 5 times, hitting him 3 times? Are they really that poorly trained they are unable to shoot him in a shoulder once and see the reaction?

Thing I am most concerned about is that 12 gardai were unable to disarm him. Like I see tons of posts here "I support Gardai" but arent they actually trained for situations like this? If they are - they've failed. I know they've been mad busy asking motorists where they are going at checkpoints this year etc. but have they lost the ability to execute the very thing they are mandated to - to keep every citizen safe?

Then there's throwing a net over him.
If that fails drafting in a drone to drop a net over him.
A bullet to the ear perhaps, or ninja shoot the knife out of his hand.
Maybe, the foot, the leg, the arm.
What about a warning shot at his house or porch or the ground at his feet.
Call in and wait for a humanities degree holder to do a bit of mindfulness with him

Shoulder is a new one on me though, so fair play.
This has been done to death poster.

Ginger n Lemon

Look I get that the support for Gardai in this thread is overwhelming.

What I dont get is why 12 + unarmed gardai are unable to deal with someone with a knife.

You need to have a standard for your police force.

If someone with a knife gets shot 10 times tomorrow, will you all still be posting "what would you do rambo?" "yeah thats legit" "Solid"




PS I have no opinion on this. But I am very concerned at how individual with a knife been allowed to roam free from Spar all the way to his housing estate, potentially putting many more people lives at risk. If anything this episode shows that unarmed Gardai are not much use?

PokeHerKing

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Question I have is why shoot 5 times, hitting him 3 times? Are they really that poorly trained they are unable to shoot him in a shoulder once and see the reaction?

Thing I am most concerned about is that 12 gardai were unable to disarm him. Like I see tons of posts here "I support Gardai" but arent they actually trained for situations like this? If they are - they've failed. I know they've been mad busy asking motorists where they are going at checkpoints this year etc. but have they lost the ability to execute the very thing they are mandated to - to keep every citizen safe?

I saw footage of Australian police non fatally disarming a jihadist lunatic with a knife in Sydney a while back. Think it was Sydney. A citizen even helped out by ramming the guy with a trolley.

It was hailed as the way to police etc and held up as an example against the US. Personally I think the cops put themselves and the public in danger, they should have shot him. He's the attacker. If I was related to the cops I'd have been PO with them for potentially making me bury my brother/father/son etc.

There's a right and a wrong way to do it imo. 9/10 the US are the wrong way, they're essentially murdering people mostly black but they do kill whites as well.

I also think the Australians were wrong. That would have been a lawful killing protecting society. Which is their job.

Their job is not to disarm lunatics, its to protect society.