George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

oldtimeyfella

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

But if he injured or god forbid killed someone else with a knife on the way to his housing estate, would that not be a big disaster? Because that is essentially what he couldve done, but thankfully didnt.

They were essentially corralling him until the guys with guns showed up.


I would imagine that they would have tried to intervene if he did make a go for someone before that but there was no reason to tackle him and risk getting injured or killed.


It doesn't matter if there was 1 or 100 unarmed gardai there. They aren't expected to use their bodies as cannon fodder to tire out a knife wielding nutjob so that he can be peacefully subdued.

Donald Trump

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

But if he injured or god forbid killed someone else with a knife on the way to his housing estate, would that not be a big disaster? Because that is essentially what he couldve done, but thankfully didnt.

They were following him. I'd imagine that he was going to be tackled in some form or another as soon as he was a danger to anyone else.



Look at the outrage there is when they did give him every opportunity to give up and drop the knife. And that is with a video online of him trying to lunge and decapitate a Guard.
Imagine what it would be like if the Guards had arrived on the scene outside the Spar and decided to shoot him there and then

enricoh

JeffKenna wrote: »

I don't know, the very first thing the family said was that he had mental health issues. I think it's a very reasonable question to ask what they did to help.

They all had their phones out recording, that'd help -if there was any slip up by the cops for a bit of compo!

tayto lover

I have been wondering all week why the brother was upstairs videoing the scene and why the other members of the family didn’t come out to insist that George put his knife down. Now I read that they were in fear of him and that a barring order was taken out to keep him away because they feared him.
If that is true maybe he went to the house to assault them too after assaulting the man in the Spar shop,
It would explain why they didn’t intervene on his behalf. Fear.
Now he’s their saint.

nullzero

Ruth Coppinger, Hazel Chu and Lynn Ruane should have been choppered in to talk him down whilst Paul Murphy grabbed the knife off of him.

Donald Trump

JeffKenna wrote: »

I don't know, the very first thing the family said was that he had mental health issues. I think it's a very reasonable question to ask what they did to help.

According to an earlier post linked to a British newspaper, they helpfully had a barring order against him. (Which is obviously what you would do to help a harmless family member.)



True or not? I don't know. The article is firewalled for me anyway.

oldtimeyfella

tayto lover wrote: »

I have been wondering all week why the brother was upstairs videoing the scene and why the other members of the family didn’t come out to insist that George put his knife down. Now I read that they were in fear of him and that a barring order was taken out to keep him away because they feared him.
If that is true maybe he went to the house to assault them too after assaulting the man in the Spar shop,
It would explain why they didn’t intervene on his behalf. Fear.
Now he’s their saint.

Wonder will they hand back the gofundme money or are they still alright to get a few bob off of the death of someone they wanted nothing to do with?

amacca

nullzero wrote: »

The Gardai should have a time machine and use it go ensure all knife wielding loonies get the correct care required from social workers to ensure these incidents never happen.

This....so many people have totally unreasonable expectations of the Gardai here that would put their lives and innocent members of the publics lives at risk if they were acted on.

Its like they cant try an even for a second put themselves in the shoes of the person that has to do the job.

the guy attacked someone in a shop (for what ever reason), he was carrying a knife (of some sort - unless it was fisher price princess penelopes teaparty plastic knife then I dont care, it was a weapon capable of inflicting serious harm on others)

he proceeded to a post office...making it look like a rampage or spree of some sort

he wouldnt be talked down over a log period of time/didnt respond to instructions (its unlikely the followed him silently and didnt ask him to do things to de-escalate the situation)

He then went to his family home ...where he doesnt appear to have been let in? and even if the door was open given his recent previous actions how could you let him go in in case he knifes a family member in his state of mind and this is regardless of any barring order or history of violence towards family members there may have been to imo

They then used non lethal options on him and they didnt work...that happens, it could speak to the fact he was high as kite or completely manic or circumstance meant they were ineffective...whatever the reason here (and I dont believe it was incompetence - they are a sepcialist unit that train for this) it didnt work so they had to proceed to the next stage ...in order to protect their lives and the lives of others

he didnt respond initially to being shot either and lunged/attacked so they had to keep shooting to stop him attacking...to protect their lives and the lives of others

The last bit happened in a couple of seconds, if at any point before that Mr Nchenko had responded to instructions and shown himself to be less of a threat to gards and innocent people those last couple of seconds didnt have to happen

As for him having psychiatric problems or previous convictions these to me are background (useful background which may inform decisions) but they have very little bearing on the last couple of seconds and the decision that had to be made.

they couldnt not follow him or ask him to stop or let him do what he wanted because of his actions.......he was a threat to people so they had to do their job....regardless of Mr Nchenkos mental state innocent people have to take priority in a situation like this end of............he couldnt be let wander around doing what he wanted and the moment he lunged was the moment he pulled the trigger himself imo.

Ginger n Lemon

wandererz wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

He was followed, have a look at this :

https://youtu.be/HqyeAL3wNx0

He wasn't allowed to roam free but was under observation.

He is roaming free on the video though in that field??

If he ran at the lad taking the video.... we couldve been talking about 2 casualties.


All in all - I am not saying Gardai were wrong to shoot him. What I Am saying is that all the events leading up to this lad getting back to his house are a little bit concerning and seem a little bit "ineffective". Please dont call me rambo or anything like that, thats really not necessary and does not add anything to the thread.

Signore Fancy Pants

bush wrote: »

Probably worried about their own saftey

True, shouting from an upstairs window could also de-escalate.

I just saw another post here which suggests that the perpetrator may have been a threat to the family. I only quickly looked so I could be wrong.

If true, that radically changes the narrative for me, particularly the actions of the family and friends post event.

oldtimeyfella

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

He is roaming free on the video though in that field??

If he ran at the lad taking the video.... we couldve been talking about 2 casualties.


All in all - I am not saying Gardai were wrong to shoot him. What I Am saying is that all the events leading up to this lad getting back to his house are a little bit concerning and seem a little bit "ineffective". Please dont call me rambo or anything like that, thats really not necessary and does not add anything to the thread.

He's roaming free except for the multiple Garda units following him closely who would have intervened if he got squirrely.

Thelonious Monk

I don't think this is the big story people on both sides wanted it to be. The media don't seem to care. Anyone sensible knows it was an issue for the Garda to deal with and it looks like they had no choice but to shoot the guy.

nullzero

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

He is roaming free on the video though in that field??

If he ran at the lad taking the video.... we couldve been talking about 2 casualties.


All in all - I am not saying Gardai were wrong to shoot him. What I Am saying is that all the events leading up to this lad getting back to his house are a little bit concerning and seem a little bit "ineffective". Please dont call me rambo or anything like that, thats really not necessary and does not add anything to the thread.

Doesn't add anything to the thread?

Bit of a pot and kettle situation.

Tell me how you would have dealt with him walking through the housing estate. Oh let me guess, you wouldn't have a clue.

doublejobbing 2

tayto lover wrote: »

. Now I read that they were in fear of him and that a barring order was taken out to keep him away because they feared him.

So where did he start the rampage? Was he homeless?

wandererz

Take a look at the video again.

Why didn't the family open the door for him when he was right there?

They could have just let him in and deescalated the situation immediately and brought their little boy into their arms.

Ginger n Lemon

Also - PS - I do think that brother / family didnt do very well here. If it was my brother my actions would have been different to that of sitting on the staircase in the house while all that is unfolding outside of the house.

Nozebleed

wandererz wrote: »

Take a look at the video again.

Why didn't the family open the door for him when he was right there?

because he was a danger to anyone and everyone in society at the time. unhinged and in possession of a lethal weapon with intent to cause kill.

IngazZagni

wandererz wrote: »

Take a look at the video again.

Why didn't the family open the door for him when he was right there?

They could have just let him in and deescalated the situation immediately and brought their little boy into their arms.

Exactly and from the Guards point of view they couldn't know for sure that he lived there. Maybe he was attempting to enter a random house.

hynesie08

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

He is roaming free on the video though in that field??

If he ran at the lad taking the video.... we couldve been talking about 2 casualties.

So they're observing the situation while maintaining a safe distance..... Seems reasonable.

If he ran at a lad, I know he was an average footballer in the ddsl, but he's not outrunning a garda car in a flat race.....

All in all - I am not saying Gardai were wrong to shoot him. What I Am saying is that all the events leading up to this lad getting back to his house are a little bit concerning and seem a little bit "ineffective". Please dont call me rambo or anything like that, thats really not necessary and does not add anything to the thread.

Situational awareness, risk assessment and duty of care to themselves and others....

doublejobbing 2

Donald Trump wrote: »

According to an earlier post linked to a British newspaper, they helpfully had a barring order against him. (Which is obviously what you would do to help a harmless family member.)



True or not? I don't know. The article is firewalled for me anyway.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gardai-had-to-shoot-george-nkencho-under-public-safety-protocols-wkg5vk6mf?t=ie

You can sign up for a limited amount of fee articles.

Not the first time the UK Times hasn't been afraid to report on facts the like of the IT would deem too sensitive to community cohesion. IIRC they were the ones who exposed Ellie isyombe's dubious back story of how she ended up in the asylum system.

Not that it mattered, she is living in a HAP home somewhere in town on the public dime now.

mynamejeff

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Please lets not go there.... Gardai are there to protect people. its a dangerous job from the start.

What if the lunatic with a knife killed your brother or father on the way to his housing estate as 12 gardai were "following" him around trying to "calm him down"?

not sure what your trying to say here ,
This fella was getting arrested for his actions in the shop and before ,
he was given every possible opportunity to survive this warned tazed pepper sprayed
he needed to be stopped there and then .
12 gardai weren't following him , as far as I can see there were 3 cars max , one a traffic car, making sure that he didn't kill any one until ASU arrived . ha they needed to intervene then its it likely you would have a stabbed garda or two and a live criminal claiming he was the target of racist profiling
he was actively trying to harm or kill them when they arrived and other than allow them self's to be killed to be stabbed there was no choice ,

if anything its a object lesson to the next person who thinks that there are no consequences to criminality in Ireland

I would have sympathy for his family had they not been liars and scumbags themselves . I really hope that the brother gets jail for threatening to kill the garda

Nozebleed

nullzero wrote: »

Ruth Coppinger, Hazel Chu and Lynn Ruane should have been choppered in to talk him down whilst Paul Murphy grabbed the knife off of him.

all those mentioned above are unfit to hold office. this is the protest people should be attending. race bating on twitter stirring up tension is all they want to do..divide society with their incoherent identity politics.

Donald Trump

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gardai-had-to-shoot-george-nkencho-under-public-safety-protocols-wkg5vk6mf?t=ie

You can sign up for a limited amount of fee articles.

Not the first time the UK Times hasn't been afraid to report on facts the like of the IT would deem too sensitive to community cohesion. IIRC they were the ones who exposed Ellie isyombe's dubious back story of how she ended up in the asylum system.

Not that it mattered, she is living in a HAP home somewhere in town on the public dime now.

Someone posted the text on the previous page.


A newspaper in a foreign jurisdiction would be more free to publish details. I think that is a universal truth. It is not necessarily linked to anything more sinister

alias no.9

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

He is roaming free on the video though in that field??

If he ran at the lad taking the video.... we couldve been talking about 2 casualties.


All in all - I am not saying Gardai were wrong to shoot him. What I Am saying is that all the events leading up to this lad getting back to his house are a little bit concerning and seem a little bit "ineffective". Please dont call me rambo or anything like that, thats really not necessary and does not add anything to the thread.

The whataboutery and faux concern is staggering. First it was why did it take 5 bullets, now why didn't they take him down sooner.

They contained the threat and exhausted all non lethal avenues of neutralising the threat at which point they used lethal force. There were no other injuries or casualties. Nobody wanted any of this to happen but from the moment the Gardai engaged with this man in his psychotic rampage, they were effective in protecting the public.

Mad_maxx

oldtimeyfella wrote: »

She's realised she ****ed up with the race baiting and has switched to "everyone is hurting but we need to ask serious questions" mode.


She should be stripped of her office for being a biased clown but i'm sure that would be racist or whatever so that won't happen.

the media love her so expect some form of rehabilitation , probably appear on the late late in a few weeks to atone in some form

doublejobbing 2

I'm just trying to imagine a scenario where armed Gardai refuse to open fire on a middle aged Irish man who is on the doorstep of a house he is barred from, and he enters, barricades the door and proceeds to knife his estranged wife and kids while the armed Gardai stand outside waiting for a battering ram to arrive.

I'm trying to imagine all of that happening, and Ruth Coppinger saying that the Gardai made the correct call. Because he was unarmed, apart from a knife.

A grade A moron and a now two time failed candidate for higher office who should be ignored by all.

amacca

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Also - PS - I do think that brother / family didnt do very well here. If it was my brother my actions would have been different to that of sitting on the staircase in the house while all that is unfolding outside of the house.

Or stand up to speak at a public gathering talking about "finding that fed" either.

However are they saying that video was a fake and its not his brother?

Id have understanding for him staying in the house safe from any harm his brother might do to himself or his mother tbh......Id take a dimmer view if he was out afterwards inciting a crowd on the back of what happened.

Hamachi

nullzero wrote: »

Ruth Coppinger, Hazel Chu and Lynn Ruane should have been choppered in to talk him down whilst Paul Murphy grabbed the knife off of him.

Can’t wait to see that movie. Maybe we can have a guest starring role for Brid Smith as a human shield!

jmreire

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

So the perpetrator had no convictions, glad that has been cleared up, there no room for wild misinformation with this situation. However he was apparently known to AGS, I wont speculate as to why.

In my opinion if there was a genuine mental health issue involved, it still does not trump the AGS reponse. They were responding to the perpetrators physical actions and intent. You dont step back and offer cuddles and a colouring book when someone lunges with a weapon.

This will be controvetsial but my opinion really stems from the perpetrators families' apparent lack of intervention in the situation. I could be very wrong here but I havent seen anything to say they tried to help. If they were so concerned with mental health issues being a primary factor to his actions, they should have stopped recording from inside the house and intervened.

I dont care how that sounds to anyone here, its not ok to sit back and observe while armed AGS members confront an alleged mentally ill family member. Its even worse if it there were just unarmed AGS outside the house first, that should have been a better time for family to de-escalate.

After the deployment of less lethal force measures, why was there still no intervention? Im sure someone will counter with something like "its not the families responsibility" - eh, yeah it is. Maybe someone here will also say "you cant intervene because the cops wont want you in the situation" - sure...but even if you were to de-escalate the situation?

The perpetrator is now dead, mental health is not an excuse, especially if there were no apparent attempts by the family to help the situation. Is that laying some blame on the family for the outcome if the situation? Youre damn right it is.

Yet its "all the Guards fault".

Possibly one reason that the family remained safely inside the house and did not try and help the situation was that they were well aware of what he was capable of violence-wise. And were filming the whole episode as a protection for themselves,not expecting it to end as it did. It now appears that they had a barring order taken out against him,,,had he survived, it could be used against him in Court to extend that order, assuming that he would not be jailed ( very unlikely, I know, but still..) From the video, he appears to be at the front door, with the Guards circled around him at a safe distance. Then he charges at them waving the Knife / Machete. It all happened in split seconds and they had absolutely no choice. As a matter of fact, given the speed at which it happened , they were lucky to stop him without some of them being injured. They absolutely took the right course of action. And all of this faux outrage at the Guards is following a different agenda.

alias no.9

Mad_maxx wrote: »

the media love her so expect some form of rehabilitation , probably appear on the late late in a few weeks to atone in some form

No doubt to pour her heart out recounting the stress and anxiety she suffers from being attacked on twitter