George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

AngeloArgue

statesaver wrote: »

Racial issue vs racist incident

more clear?

Green Peter

AngeloArgue wrote: »

Racial issue vs racist incident

more clear?

Neither, violent man endangering life v peacekeepers representing society.

Ash.J.Williams

I’d expect the same treatment from the cops if I a white Anglo Saxon Irish behaved the same

Cilldara_2000

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I’d expect the same treatment from the cops if I a white Anglo Saxon Irish behaved the same

As a matter of interest, are there many people in your community? I’d imagine white Anglo Saxon Irish are a very small minority.

Donald Trump

AngeloArgue wrote: »

Racial issue vs racist incident

more clear?

There was an incident last year of a black fella beating, and then stabbing his white victom as he lay motionless on the ground. He also came back the second time and lifted his top to stab him some more. Other footage was circulated of the same fella attacking other white young lads. The perpetrator recently got 18 months sentence for it.



Do you think that was racial? (or racist)



I'm just trying to get a better picture of your logic which is applied to this more recent incident

I'm glad a person who wielded a knife and was violent towards others is now dead.

Apparently that makes me racist.

If it does, I'm a proud racist.

Racist means something different apparently.

Hellokitty1212

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm glad a person who wielded a knife and was violent towards others is now dead.

Apparently that makes me racist.

If it does, I'm a proud racist.

Racist means something different apparently.

I’ve read in the last few days that saying someone has a nice speaking voice is racist as you mean they shouldn’t sound educated.

I don’t sound educated, pure dead common - I am though! I don’t get the rules

Ash.J.Williams

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

As a matter of interest, are there many people in your community? I’d imagine white Anglo Saxon Irish are a very small minority.

Anyone with a non Irish English name and most Protestants I’d guess

You do know that if you don’t have a genuine Irish name you’re from elsewhere yeah?

I personally am a planter , post Cromwell.

Zatoichi

When reading about his aspirations and achievements, you would never know that the young Dubliner was still desperately trying to come to terms with the tragic death of his friend, Toyosi ****tabey. Like George, the Nigerian-born student had played football with Insaka Ireland, a soccer team that trains African youths in Ireland. But in 2010, his life was cut short when he was fatally stabbed in Tyrrelstown. He was just 15 years old.

Apparently knives are actually quite deadly.

poisonated

A loss of life is mostly always sad. I don’t know much about this case but if this guy was so violent,
of had such bad mental health issues that is being said, perhaps he should have been hospitalised until a stage where he is no longer such a threat to the public.

screamer

There’s no racist/ racial/ colour angle to this incident and those who try to say there is are in fact stirring the pot of hatred that is racism.

The Garda’s action was colour blind, as it should be. No special treatment because of your skin colour, and the end result was the same as that metered out to white Irish people in the past who were armed, violent, a risk to others and could not be reasoned with. My sympathies in this are with the injured shop worker and the Garda who had to shoot that guy the other day. No one should have to take action like that, but because they do have to, we can all sleep a bit better, he’s a hero in my eyes.

Strumms

Ninthlife wrote: »

I went out for a walk today and didnt get shot..amazing I know...

and it wasnt because I am white or my religious view or my mental health or my upbringing

But because

I wasnt breaking the law and assaulting people and while doing so using a potentially deadly weapon be that a machete, butcher/bread knife against the Gardai...

Yep, me too, I hit the park across the road from my home, 55 minutes from locking door, to opening door again , no Garda shot me, no Garda chased me, no Garda attempted to arrest me... nor did I hurt anybody, threaten or endanger anybody or have on me an illegal deadly weapon... just enjoyed the fresh air, minded my own business...and respected the lives and wellbeing of those around me.

Here I am, 1.25 am...alive, in pretty good health, ready to sleep soon and get up and enjoy my day again tomorrow...

EASY !

AngeloArgue

Green Peter wrote: »

Neither, violent man endangering life v peacekeepers representing society.

I've been thinking over the ethics of the use of lethal force in policing earlier today given some of the debate we had yesterday.
The suspect at the time was a presenting as a deadly threat. That is he had the means and the perceived intent to do serious harm or kill the responding officers in their efforts to uphold the law and the peace.

Intent as he had already assaulted and threatened violence and was failing to comply with efforts to end it.
Some would say that this in itself would be justification for the use of force but the officers held back at a distance instead. This was sound operational tactics, because even though the suspect could be said to be threatening the lives of the officers it was not an immediate threat.

As the suspect walked towards a residential area the right to life and safety of others came into play. The suspect was still holding the weapon and failing to comply with officers who then deployed non-fatal force which failed to eliminate the deadly threat.

Officers continued to keep their distance until the suspect had reached a domestic dwelling and apparently attempted to gain entry. The suspect was still presenting as a deadly threat to the officers and therefore that deadly threat could be extended to the occupants of the dwelling given that there was no reason to believe that he posed no threat to those inside.

Given that the officers had already showed restraint in not reacting to the deadly threat in keeping their distance in a hope that the suspect would surrender. When he closed the gap in presenting an immediate and deadly threat to the occupants of the dwelling then the Gardaí were justified in ending that threat.
Given that the suspect was armed with a deadly weapon, had supposed intent by his behaviour, other means of resolution had been used and failed, the threat to the occupants of the house was imminent. Then the use of lethal force could be seen as justified.

This does not take away from the families anguish and anger. I'm sure they wanted him to surrender or be restrained at the door. Obviously they believe he wouldn't of seriously harmed them if he had gained entry and they could of talked him into surrendering.

The Gardaí were already showing restraint in the face of a deadly threat. When that deadly threat started to imminently involve third parties the Gardaí had to act to preserve the right to life of that third party

Donald Trump

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Anyone with a non Irish English name and most Protestants I’d guess

You do know that if you don’t have a genuine Irish name you’re from elsewhere yeah?

I personally am a planter , post Cromwell.

Well now we know who to blame. Your lot must have feckin' given the idea to the fella with the microphone looking for free land :pac:








(am joking of course)

KevRossi

Donald Trump wrote: »

There was an incident last year of a black fella beating, and then stabbing his white victom as he lay motionless on the ground. He also came back the second time and lifted his top to stab him some more. Other footage was circulated of the same fella attacking other white young lads. The perpetrator recently got 18 months sentence for it.



Do you think that was racial? (or racist)

Which incident was that? Cork?

Donald Trump

KevRossi wrote: »

Which incident was that? Cork?

Yeah. I'm not trying to discuss that one. Just trying to understand the posters logic in relation to this one. Because I have had, in the past, people try to "explain" all this "racist" things in a convoluted way that, by definition, can only ever be in one direction.

endacl

poisonated wrote: »

A loss of life is mostly always sad. I don’t know much about this case but if this guy was so violent,
of had such bad mental health issues that is being said, perhaps he should have been hospitalised until a stage where he is no longer such a threat to the public.

Indeed. An intervention should have been made before he came to the attention of the guards at all. By his family, perhaps? Or his community? Who cared so much about him and knew him so well?

ForestFire

Got blocked by Cllr John Burtchaell also on twitter for posting an extract fron the Sunday Times article word for word?

ALL these so call public figures are some shower of.....!

Some have Facebook pages where you can leave a re iew, I don't think yhey can block or remove/hide?

sligojoek

If he'd put the knife down when he was told/asked he'd be either getting medical help or out on bail now. The guards had no choice.

jimmycrackcorm

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

The most frustrating thing of all is that any critical query on the race angle is either shouted down or ignored and you are labelled as a racist.

I think whats winding people up the most is that theres no reasonable debate about this, *somehow* its a clear cut racial issue.

The only definitive unquestionable racism I have seen with this situation has been from the black community.

Turn this on its head and question if the perpetrators actions were racially motivated? Did he go to Eurospar with the intent to assault a white guy? There is zero evidence of that motivation....but does it matter? It works from the other way around.

People here are giving far more weight to the colour of the perpatrators skin rather than his actions. Its quite laughable and equally as tragic that some here cannot accept that he was a violent individual, with historical issues with AGS, a barring order from his own family and had just commited a crime...

...yet he was shot because he was black.

There is absolutely no way that a rational person can take that stance. What type of person believes thats what happened here?

Whats even worse is the blind buy in from elected representatives and public figures. The refusal to counter the race narrative and to call it out for what it is. As evidenced from Twitter exchanges, you cant even query it, you get blocked or ridiculed.

Lets be honest, does racism exist in Ireland? Yes it does but lets concentrate efforts on real racism and wheres theres evidence of racism.

In my view, this has seriously discredited the activist community. Theres too much of "the boy who cried wolf" here. It has really damaged the narrative in the eyes of the casual observer.

I for one, who has been fairly apolitical my adult life, will now be paying attention to political discourse about immigration, social issues, direct provision and left wing parties.

This debacle has left a sour taste in my mouth and opened my eyes to how we are viewed by those we have given refuge to.

I see no reason to accept nor tolerate it.

I feel the exact same way, and I suspect there are many also thinking the same now. TBH, I'm really disappointed by watching the video of the angry mob trying to storm the Spar shop and shouting white bastards.

I've only ever had great experiences interacting with black people, whether it is as work colleagues, taxi drivers, medical staff, or the craic with the toilet attendants. Not a single bad experience ever. But this mob and their protests also leave me with a sour taste.

There were no protests when Mark Hennessy (who abducted and murdered Jastine Valdez), was shot by Gardai who thought he had a knife and her as a hostage in his car. We all accept that action as justified, which just makes these protesters anti-white racists.

Strumms

endacl wrote: »

Indeed. An intervention should have been made before he came to the attention of the guards at all. By his family, perhaps? Or his community? Who cared so much about him and knew him so well?

1000%...

Also, if I’m living in a house with be it family member, housemate, friend, or partner and they had a weapon of that nature, unless it was in a glass case.. I’d be telling them to get the fûck rid of it or they can get rid of themselves from the premises.... Especially if the person in question was known as an erratic personality or had certain psychological issues..

So the blame lies too with the housemates ‘if’ they were aware this weapon was in the premises.

“Hi, this sword doesn’t make me comfortable, it’s dangerous, it’s classified as a deadly illegal weapon and therefore I want it out of here tomorrow, or I’ll be needing to take it further”

You know, being proactive rather then harboring a knife wielding criminal/ psycho.

Ash.J.Williams

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well now we know who to blame. Your lot must have feckin' given the idea to the fella with the microphone looking for free land :pac:








(am joking of course)

It’s ok it’s true

mcmoustache

screamer wrote: »

There’s no racist/ racial/ colour angle to this incident and those who try to say there is are in fact stirring the pot of hatred that is racism.

The Garda’s action was colour blind, as it should be. No special treatment because of your skin colour, and the end result was the same as that metered out to white Irish people in the past who were armed, violent, a risk to others and could not be reasoned with. My sympathies in this are with the injured shop worker and the Garda who had to shoot that guy the other day. No one should have to take action like that, but because they do have to, we can all sleep a bit better, he’s a hero in my eyes.

I agree completely, based on what's known at this point. People on the fringes are making hay out of this but I don't see where race comes into it, beyond the fact the the perp happened to be black.

gozunda

AngeloArgue wrote: »

It is.
Simply by the fact that it was a white police officer that shot a black man.

What nonsense is this? Is it that the the gardai have a history of shooting 'black men'? or similar?

Surely by that descriptor that is not only racial but also sexist according to your definition no?

If the person shot was of the slav race - would that be 'racial?

Tbh it's more than evident those pushing this as 'racial' / 'racist' are little more than race baiters and no better than those using hate speech by referring to gardai as 'racist ass cops'

...

Howard Beale

The fact the famiy had protection orders against him (Sunday Times 3.1.21) and the fact Gardai knew this makes it clear in my opinion Gardai saved that families life that day.

For the brother to death threat that same Garda on a megaphone is abhorrent; outrageous and callous.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VF5A_f6fGQE

newmember2

Howard Beale wrote: »

The fact the famiy had protection orders against him (Sunday Times 3.1.21) and the fact Gardai knew this makes it clear in my opinion Gardai saved that families life that day.

For the brother to death threat that same Garda on a megaphone is abhorrent; outrageous and callous.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VF5A_f6fGQE

How do you know that's his brother?

newmember2

Strumms wrote: »

1000%...

Also, if I’m living in a house with be it family member, housemate, friend, or partner and they had a weapon of that nature, unless it was in a glass case.. I’d be telling them to get the fûck rid of it or they can get rid of themselves from the premises.... Especially if the person in question was known as an erratic personality or had certain psychological issues..

So the blame lies too with the housemates ‘if’ they were aware this weapon was in the premises.

“Hi, this sword doesn’t make me comfortable, it’s dangerous, it’s classified as a deadly illegal weapon and therefore I want it out of here tomorrow, or I’ll be needing to take it further”

You know, being proactive rather then harboring a knife wielding criminal/ psycho.

What you've obviously spent a few minutes typing makes absolutely zero sense...a knife can be found in every household kitchen in the country.

katiek102010

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

This is going to sound really sexist and I apologise. But I notice Irish people sticking up for the thug in this case seem to be predominantly women. Are both your friend women who argued this?

I feel like there’s literally no Irish men standing up for the thug. Even on the thugs go fund me all the donations where either African names or Irish females... what’s the deal here?

If this is not an acceptable post mods please delete.

100% female here. The thug is a thug. I'm 1000% behind the ASU on this.

endacl

newmember? wrote: »

What you've obviously spent a few minutes typing makes absolutely zero sense...a knife can be found in every household kitchen in the country.

Especially a butter knife.

newmember2

endacl wrote: »

Especially a butter knife.

...believe it or not but even bigger than a butter knife!!:p