George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

whisky_galore

Mad_maxx wrote: »

much of the under thirties demographic are the dumbest generation ever produced , not a huge surprise with the kind of third level institutional culture we have

Previous generations:
Afghanistan will be a pushover, sure what will those guys attack us with, rocks?
Those Germans will never get past this Maginot Line.
Oh wow, a concrete statue moved. Let's have a good oul pray and maybe it'll move again?

TomTomTim

amacca wrote: »

I too am wondering what the academic standard is

hate to be old timey about this but in my time you had to reach a certain standard as an academic.....it tended to mean you had to have some level of objectivity and logic to your thought process.........

that seems to have gone out the window........

Not if you're involved in the social sciences, where most of this nonsense comes from.

amacca

TomTomTim wrote: »

Not if you're involved in the social sciences, where most of this nonsense comes from.

social "sciences"

thats cultural misappropriation right there....:pac::pac:

neonsofa

walshb wrote: »

Yes

I bet there are many black people fed up to their tits of white people and their fake concern and sympathy. It's actually quite demeaning and insulting the way white people try and make out how black people are persecuted....it's weird.

Been going on for eternity...the big white chiefs and their ego tripping.....

A close friend of mine, who is a dub through and through (parents of African descent, but she was born and raised here, speaks Irish better than most), was getting messages from people she had barely spoken to in years during the BLM protests in the US. Around the day of the black squares on instagram. Messages about wanting to learn and understand, checking how she was. She didnt say it to them, but she was saying to me venting, like "I'm fine, as I've always been, but if I wasn't, you clearly didn't care up til now so why would I discuss it with you!?! Why would I put time aside out of my day to teach a randomer about racism when they have Google?!" She found it incredibly frustrating. She also felt like she was becoming the token black friend when people were reaching out to her out of the blue. Like they wanted to reconnect just because it was the in thing. It was a very strange time! I dont know if it will start up again now with all this. I hope not.

I find the whole "check in on black people" thing strange. Sure if they're your friend and you think it may be affecting them negatively, but inserting yourself into the lives of black people that you don't speak to any other time of the year... let's not.

yourdeadwright

Fred & Rose west had mental healthy issues the poor petals just needed help and shouldn't be judged by people, ,
Adolf Hitler had some mental health problems so lets not speak ill of him,

Can you see how crazy that excuse is

Maxpfizer

Hijpo wrote: »

What does a business owner do if they employ a white person and a black person.
The white person books time off, then the black person comes looking for the same time off and doesn't get it.

Racism card.

Then you get the likes of that speaker and other SJW coming out of the wood work in support of the black person because they are not being allowed take holidays but the white person is.

No amount of logic and explanation trumps the racism card.
If you want to find racism in somehing you will and it will never go away.

It makes a lot of sense in the modern environment.

Most people are testing out their political and philosophical arguments online far more frequently and easily than they ever could say 30 years ago.

For many it's simply unacceptable to be wrong on the internet so what they need is an unbeatable tactic that allows them to shut down any argument they can't win.

It's like a sort of intellectual "parking the bus".

What did they used to say about Feminism online? The comments on any article about Feminism are proof that we need Feminism. So I can post any old rubbish about Feminism and people pointing out I am talking rubbish are actually proving that not only am I right but that my views are neccessary.

See also:

She says that by using black magic or witchcraft you are able to send lightning to strike someone. Then asks "can you explain that scientifically"?

Member of the audience says "that's not true".

There is much roaring and laughter before the audience member is forced to apologize.

You see Western knowledge is based on white supremacy. So if you don't believe that you can use black magic to send lightning to strike someone then maybe you are too deep in that western, colonial, white supremacist mindset. A true anti-racist would condemn western science and open their mind to the possibilities of sending the lightning... or whatever.

Now, you see it here. Why didn't the 15 cops subdue him? Sure one or two cops might have to die in the process but isn't that better than one black man dying? You're not a racist are you?

I said before that just allowing this guy to have his way with the community is the path of least resistance for our society now. If the dude had actually killed a cop or two in the efforts to bring him down then it would be seen as a tragedy, there would be some empty platitudes for the victims and then we'd move on. No protests. No outrage. No talk of racism at all.

Instead the cops used lethal force to protect themselves and the community so what we get is a daily run at "why didn't they shoot his leg/arm/the knife from his hands" which is dismissed before the next one takes a run at that argument in a few hours.

ANYTHING to not just admit that this was an impossible situation for anyone to deal with. The guy is running around with a knife and has already put one person in the hospital but the real issue of the day is making sure nobody can be accused of racism.

You think if a situation like this involved one of the right wing villains such as Tommy Robinson/Lennon/whatever that anyone would really give a hoot if the cops killed him? "He brought a knife to a gunfight, haha, let's move on." No way there would be this kind of outrage.

Think about it. People legitimately showed up at the shop that this guy robbed, where he also assaulted and hospitalized a member of staff, and gave out stink because they called the cops on him. You think if some right wing hooligans showed up at that moment and started throwing fists at protesters that those same protesters would be screaming "don't call the Guards just let them batter us". No.

I think we can just be grateful for now that this stupidity is mostly taking place online and only online. A few isolated incidents in real life, in Ireland, but mostly we are OK and mostly it's just morons online that we are not obligated to engage with if we don't want to.

It's a terrible day when the Guards end up killing a civilian.
We should all be taking personal responsibility and caring enough for others to never be in a situation where the Guards would ever need to open fire on us.

How many people here are going to the local convenience store to batter the staff and wave a knife around on a Wednesday afternoon? None, I'd reckon.

The kind of person who WOULD do something like that needs to be taken care of before they can do actual damage to others.

Imagine feeling like it would have been better for the country as a whole, for race relations, for a safe multicultural society to actually just allow this guy to kill a few Guards as they try to subdue him just so we can avoid protests and people crying racism.

Nobody has the courage to publicly stand up against the mob because objection to the mob just proves that they are right. Even denying that race has anything to do with it is racism. You can't win.

The best that the vast majority of us can hope for is that we will be lucky and stuff like this will never impact us. So long as somebody else is the victim we'll keep on going to Twitter to screech about how 15 guards should easily be able to sacrifice one or two of their number to bring down a knife wielding maniac.

conorhal

walshb wrote: »

Yes

I bet there are many black people fed up to their tits of white people and their fake concern and sympathy. It's actually quite demeaning and insulting the way white people try and make out how black people are persecuted....it's weird.

Been going on for eternity...the big white chiefs and their ego tripping.....

I don't get much of a sense of that except for a few outliers.
Can you imagine moving to a UK where everybody was falling over themselves to apologise of 800yrs of opression, anybody that told a 'Paddy Irishman' joke went to jail and the Brits constantly fretted about wether or not they had enough Irish people on their boards to the point that they were putting quota's in place to ensure such?
Yeah, I doubt you'd hear much resistance to being heaviliy prioritised for free stuff by the Irish there.

Maxpfizer

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Fred & Rose west had mental healthy issues the poor petals just needed help and shouldn't be judged by people, ,
Adolf Hitler had some mental health problems so lets not speak ill of him,

Can you see how crazy that excuse is

It's hard to imagine that anyone who is engaging in violent or abusive behavior is not suffering from some kind of disorder.

Our default state seems to be empathy, sympathy, not wanting to hurt others because we, in turn, would not like the same to happen to us.

The vast majority of people will never, ever, in their entire lives think "right I am off down to the Spar with my trusty blade, might batter one of the staff while I'm there". Some of those who would never do that will have mental illnesses of their own to cope with.

An awful lot of folks do seem to hold "mental illness" up as a badge of honor, a character trait and sometimes even an excuse for disgraceful behavior.

If this becomes common place then eventually it could go too far.

Right now it seems like an excuse to roll out when someone we see as being on "our side" does something horrific.

Didn't they always say this about America? When there's a terror attack from some groups the chat is all about "terror groups that hate America". Yet when some right wing psychopath shoots a bunch of people it's a "lone wolf with severe mental problems".

Flip the script again though and now it's just a mentally ill guy who should have been subdued somehow.

I wonder how much of it is really about just trying to undermine the police.

If you can argue that a guy running around with a knife, potentially threatening the community, assaulting people at the local shop, is actually mentally ill then I think from there you can say if he has an illness then isn't that an issue for a doctor, not the Guards?

We kind of already do it with young people here to some extent.
A kid can beat someone up and stab them then brazenly put the footage on social media and we'll say "yeah but it wasn't racism and he's just a kid so don't be too hard on him". Then he gets maybe 12 months in jail and a lifetime on social benefits. Now we are just making sure than "he's suffering from mental illness" comes into play once "he's young and stupid" is no longer valid.

Of course the same people using the "mental illness" angle would flip the hell out if they ever saw someone saying "boys will be boys" to excuse a whole range of other toxic and anti-social behaviors.

Outrage seems to be very selective.

KevRossi

Maxpfizer wrote: »

She says that by using black magic or witchcraft you are able to send lightning to strike someone. Then asks "can you explain that scientifically"?

Member of the audience says "that's not true".

There is much roaring and laughter before the audience member is forced to apologize.
.

He was asked to apologise for shouting over a speaker, which I think is fair enough.

The woman doing most of the speaking seems to be ignorant of the fact that a lot of our science comes from Africa orginally, or places with many 'People of Colour'... India, China, Iraq, Iran etc.....

Pretty much all of what she said is rubbish.

biko

Gatling wrote: »

The brother claimed he only had a butter knife and was laying down after being tasered before being shot

Aye, the brother Emmanuel says it was a butter knife.

“If you’re telling me you can’t stop a black man with a butter knife, what sort of police are you?”

I guess we'll wait for police to show us a photo of the knife.


This expert on the case (but is a Poet & Creative Writing Teacher) claims it was not a machete. We'll see if she's right.
https://twitter.com/JessicaTraynor6/status/1345694245080985605?s=20

KevRossi

biko wrote: »

Aye, the brother Emmanuel says it was a butter knife.

I guess we'll wait for police to show us a photo of the knife.


This expert on the case (but is a Poet & Creative Writing Teacher) claims it was not a machete. We'll see if she's right.
https://twitter.com/JessicaTraynor6/status/1345694245080985605?s=20

She doesn't allow anyone to reply who she is not personally following. Not much of a debate.

GiftofGab

Another concerning aspect is that we see no black leaders publicly backing the guards in all of this. Seems as thou they'll only defend their own race regardless of the situation.

Maxpfizer

KevRossi wrote: »

He was asked to apologise for shouting over a speaker, which I think is fair enough.

The woman doing most of the speaking seems to be ignorant of the fact that a lot of our science comes from Africa orginally, or places with many 'People of Colour'... India, China, Iraq, Iran etc.....

Pretty much all of what she said is rubbish.

She asked a question though.

"Can you explain that scientifically?"

"It's not true."

biko

KevRossi wrote: »

She doesn't allow anyone to reply who she is not personally following. Not much of a debate.

Yeah, she's not interested in opposing views. That's her prerogative though.

TomTomTim

biko wrote: »

Aye, the brother Emmanuel says it was a butter knife.

I guess we'll wait for police to show us a photo of the knife.


This expert on the case (but is a Poet & Creative Writing Teacher) claims it was not a machete. We'll see if she's right.
https://twitter.com/JessicaTraynor6/status/1345694245080985605?s=20

Her follow up tweet says that those screaming racism aren't the ones causing division, it's the far right. I've honestly never came across a more delusional group of people than these middle class "socially conscious" types.

ohnonotgmail

Maxpfizer wrote: »

She asked a question though.

"Can you explain that scientifically?"

"It's not true."

how can you explain something scientifically when it isn't true? thats not a problem with science, that is a problem with people claiming things that aren't true.

Hopefully the electorate remember these public "leaders" , those who might have heretofore seen the SF/PBP/socialists types as champions, will have hopefully seen who gets to eat first from the trough of resources and realise where they are on their hierarchy of disenfranchised.

Acosta

KevRossi wrote: »

She doesn't allow anyone to reply who she is not personally following. Not much of a debate.

I can't say I blame her. Unlike this place, Twitter does little or nothing to deal with the many faceless, nameless far right accounts who will pile into her replies spouting bile.

ThunbergsAreGo

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

I figured as much her titles alone shout out critical race theory . . . . That's her hammer and everything she sees is a nail. You can read it for yourselves, if you already know about CRT you know the drill.

I would think there is an awful lot of hidden hate speech in those

Maxpfizer

biko wrote: »

Aye, the brother Emmanuel says it was a butter knife.

I guess we'll wait for police to show us a photo of the knife.


This expert on the case (but is a Poet & Creative Writing Teacher) claims it was not a machete. We'll see if she's right.
https://twitter.com/JessicaTraynor6/status/1345694245080985605?s=20

I definitely agree that people should not be spreading false information about previous convictions and what kind of weapon he had etc.

It's a little concerning that those are the issues that people focus in on though.

The dude assaults and hospitalizes someone just working at Spar then refuses to comply with Guards to the point where armed Guards need to be called out. Proceeds to attack Guards and ends up getting shot and killed.

What are we concerned about?

"Some people said he has X number of convictions when he really had zero!"

OK. Not sure that this changes too much. Answer statements about his supposed list of convictions with a curt "no he didn't have any" and then get back onto the real issues here.

The only reason to focus on the convictions at all is if you are going to try and spin the narrative into "Guards shoot totally innocent man."

Same as "he had a knife but was otherwise unarmed".

I mean except for putting the guy who works at Spar in hospital he was actually a pretty good guy.

It's like the whole nation is behaving like the stereotype of a battered wife.
"Ah sure he beats me up when he's had a drink but you all just don't see the good in him, he doesn't even have any convictions so don't believe the lies, he's a good man deep down".

TomTomTim

Female identifying traveller :pac:

https://twitter.com/JessicaTraynor6/status/1345007788771188736

biko

I see some conflicting info on the mental illness George is supposed to have.

George Nkencho described himself as ‘self-driven, well-mannered and very disciplined’ but the murder of close friend Toyosi in 2010 his later life became afflicted by mental health issues.

Toyosi was fatally stabbed in Tyrrelstown.
Paul and Michael Barry were accused of murder.
Paul died before the trial began, Michael was found not guilty.

In a statement, George's sister Gloria said Mr Nkencho was ‘suffering from serious mental illness’.
I suppose we will see a psychiatrist weigh in on this soon.

Either way, I don't think the issue he had was impeding him from understanding what the Gardai was saying when they told him to drop the knife.

piplip87

I've seen a few posts today along the lines of "If you turned your Instagram black in the summer and haven't joined a protest this week, then you are apart of the problem".

Fairly obvious the protests didnt attract the same numbers as the ones for George Flyod did in the summer.

I'd reckon alot of those who protested in the summer have seen the video and made up their own minds about this.

I'd say we are finished with this now apart from online outrage until the Ombudsman releases his findings.

Taken all into consideration I'd say the times article yesterday, if all true will certainly exonerate the Gardai. The fella had a weapon, going to a house in which the family in that house had a protection order taken against him, and then going for the Gardai with a knife.

I'd say Murphy and Co will have a few days of grandstanding the Dail and try to get some form of protest up and running again.

alias no.9

I've been finding this 'Anti-racist' somewhat baffling but its suddenly dawned on me that its a perfectly rational, if somewhat deceitful, description.

Clockwise motion is a rotation in one direction anticlockwise motion is the same thing in the opposite direction. Anti-racist is simply defining a subcategory of racism, one with a specific direction.

Sir Oxman

Acosta wrote: »

I can't say I blame her. Unlike this place, Twitter does little or nothing to deal with the many faceless, nameless far right accounts who will pile into her replies spouting bile.

What reaction do you think she would have with anyone countering her arguments/statements in a non-bile way?
Do you think she would engage honestly and truthfully or block immediately with/without labelling someone 'racist' for countering her statement?
I suppose it depends on her definition of abuse.

I don't know her but I recognise the mindset.
For any abusive reactions to her, the report button, the block button and the mute button are available to her and everyone else.
The question being what she (and others) determine to be abuse?

Howard Beale

biko wrote: »

Aye, the brother Emmanuel says it was a butter knife.

I guess we'll wait for police to show us a photo of the knife.


This expert on the case (but is a Poet & Creative Writing Teacher) claims it was not a machete. We'll see if she's right.
https://twitter.com/JessicaTraynor6/status/1345694245080985605?s=20

I can't stand these braindead no logic leftie loola types they really are as thick as a double ditch who's this latest Ruth Coppinger wannabe?

You can't talk about the facts of what happened that's racist apparently but screaming at the top of your lungs die white bastards at shoppers in Eurospar isn't? Gotcha love!

ThunbergsAreGo

biko wrote: »

Aye, the brother Emmanuel says it was a butter knife.

I guess we'll wait for police to show us a photo of the knife.


This expert on the case (but is a Poet & Creative Writing Teacher) claims it was not a machete. We'll see if she's right.
https://twitter.com/JessicaTraynor6/status/1345694245080985605?s=20

I think as Hazel Chu said - this one needs a Twitter facts unverified stamp put on it

whisky_galore

Howard Beale wrote: »

I can't stand these braindead no logic leftie loola types they really are as thick as a double ditch who's this latest Ruth Coppinger wannabe?

You can't talk about the facts of what happened that's racist apparently but screaming at the top of your lungs die white bastards at shoppers in Eurospar isn't? Gotcha love!

No end to these have-go-at-activism types is there?

Iscreamkone

I don't care if he was the Dalai Lama - he was a threat to Garda and public safety - he had ample opportunity to obey instructions from the Gardai. He chose not to. His own choices caused his death. It is sad that someone died, but it is better outcome than if he had killed a Garda or a member of the public first.

Kraftwerk

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

I think as Hazel Chu said - this one needs a Twitter facts unverified stamp put on it

If only these race baiting hypocrits applied their own standards to themselves. The far right lunatics were responding to the left lunatics immediately classifying the events as racial and trying to drive the narrative that the Gardai were racist.

Perhaps they should take a moment to think to themselves why that is. Why without any evidence they think that just because a black person was involved that the white persons motive was racist.

The divisions are being created by idiots who can't see past race and see individuals. Racist opportunists like Ebun Joseph, Paul Murphy etc looking for personal gain from stoking hatred.