George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

Danonino.

What I’m sick of is the sudden acceptance of actual racist comments and stances. Just it isn’t called as such or completely ignored.

That Merj page is disgrace. The national museum Twitter post is also disgraceful, some of the actions in Blanch are inexcusable. Racists and racism exist, but they exist in every colour. For some reason this has been forgotten and it’s unsettling.

As for the shooting by the gardai, I can see zero evidence that it was racially motivated. Zero. Could I be wrong? maybe but that’s why I don’t comment on it (this post excluded) and wait for the investigation ect. Still, I’ve somehow found myself in arguments with friends who are apparantly ‘Left’, and others who are apparantly ‘Right’ and both sides find my moderate (?) stance appalling.

If I’m not with them I’m against them... no I’m with both of them, I’m just struggling to understand both sides apparent stupidity and extreme stances. The inability to even hear an opposing view point is scary, common sense seems to have left the building. If George Nkencho wasn’t a knife weilding dangerous aggressor who got justice he was a poor troubled man who fell victim to racial profiling and met excessive force. Evidence of systemic racism in Ireland and comparable to George Floyd and the United States history, or a violent delinquent playing dangerous games and winning dangerous prizes?

There is no middle ground apparantly, and evidence/reason/cop on be damned.

The band wagon jumping, virtue signaling and idiotic nonsense that’s surfaced slowly over the last few years is bad enough. Seems to tie in with the new wave of media, and it’s going to crash and burn soon, it has to. It’s scary to think of what will happen if it doesn’t.

weldoninhio

Nalz wrote: »

The Gardai did the right thing to the best of their ability/training/resources.

The guy tried to stab more than one person, if he was a declared terrorist the mood would be different.

I'm glad no Garda or member of public was seriously hurt. I hope Wayne is recovering well.



Now saying all that, the Gardai need to get better training. The guy was in his parent and siblings house, cornered (or perhaps they were fearful he'd harm his family). There must be other resources or methods to slow him down out there that the Gardai have to skill up on.

Such as? We’re all ears. Should the Gardai have let him into the house where the occupants had protection orders against him??

Bearing in mind that you don’t get a protection order for someone not tidying up after themselves or being a bit annoying to live with. You get it because of documented threats of violence towards you.

Howard Beale

weldoninhio wrote: »

Such as? We’re all ears. Should the Gardai have let him into the house where the occupants had protection orders against him??

Bearing in mind that you don’t get a protection order for someone not tidying up after themselves or being a bit annoying to live with. You get it because of documented threats of violence towards you.

In my humble opinion he was going in to kill them.

The family should be thanking that Garda for saving his life instead of asking for him to be terminated. Which is frankly domestic terrorism.

The irony is Black lifes matter should be building a shrine to that Garda. He saved several black lifes preventing that lad going into the house.

biko

Morathi wrote: »

Also conformation from Gardai on the weapon being a "kitchen knife".

That agrees with the "large knife" mentioned by witnesses in the first report from the shop although it still leaves room for interpretation. An image had been better.

A UK judge said ordinary kitchen knives were causing a "soaring loss of life", rather than more heavily regulated large-bladed weapons.
I assume that if they see it in UK they see it here too.

ThunbergsAreGo

gozunda wrote: »

This I cannot understand. If someone arrives in Ireland from another country seeking citizenship and then defaults to wanting 'white capitalist systems' aka any property ownership, judiciary and policing to be destroyed as exemplified by this lot

http://merjireland.org/index.php/2021/01/04/for-george-nkencho/

- what's the benefit of seeking citizenship in the first place? Genuinely genuinely

We really need to start getting people to do actual work and not this NGO bullsh1t.

People with too much time on their hands dissecting everything so they can feel "oppressed", allowing them to blame everyone but themselves for their current situation.

Absolutely sick of it and the ALL of the political parties absolving responsibility from the individual, with extreme supports for those who do not contribute in any meaningful way to society -

Examples
- the Government essentially paying an Alcohol Lobbyist group to Lobby the Government
- the 30k per homeless person spent by NGOs
- the 3 trillion NGOs we have doing the same thing

What I would give for an actual credible party ready to stand up to this BS

Be right back

kat86d wrote: »

Hilarious, you obviously think I'm a pro lifer who goes to church every day. I'm just against the use of weapons for unjustified reasons end of story.

I don't think George's reason for using the knife was justified.

Beltby

Cdemess wrote: »

But wouldn’t a syringe been seen as a weapon?

The junkie was otherwise unarmed.

ThunbergsAreGo

Morathi wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/george-nkencho-s-sister-says-she-opened-door-to-him-before-he-was-shot-1.4450000?mode=amp

So the sister will be telling GSOC she answered the door to him before he was shot.

Also conformation from Gardai on the weapon being a "kitchen knife".

It's all so much bluster and semantics though. The man had so many opportunities to drop the knife, to obey the orders of the gardai. He didn't.

I hope I am wrong but cannot help feel we are going to get a guard thrown under a bus for this

ThunbergsAreGo

kat86d wrote: »

Hilarious, you obviously think I'm a pro lifer who goes to church every day. I'm just against the use of weapons for unjustified reasons end of story.

I agree, like knives

kat86d

kat86d wrote: »

The first thing I thought about this when I heard he had been shot by guards was how could that possibly happen. The guards should be trained enough to disarm a person without taking their life, we don't live in America. His death was unwarranted and should not have happened, he didn't have a gun. I know guards that have been run at with syringes by junkies who tell them they have hiv, a threat on there lives, they didn't shoot them dead. People need to get real on this, humanity is truely lost if you think this person deserved the die in the way he did. Shocking and sick!!!

Nobody deserves to die in the way he did. Nor do innocent, hard working shop staff deserve to end up in hospital due to the brutal assault by another. He was given the chance to put his weapon down. Instead he attacked the very people who were trying to keep him safe.
A syringe versus a knife is like comparing a scooter to a jumbo jet.

Sir Oxman

Danonino. wrote: »

What I’m sick of is the sudden acceptance of actual racist comments and stances. Just it isn’t called as such or completely ignored.

That Merj page is disgrace. The national museum Twitter post is also disgraceful, some of the actions in Blanch are inexcusable. Racists and racism exist, but they exist in every colour. For some reason this has been forgotten and it’s unsettling.

As for the shooting by the gardai, I can see zero evidence that it was racially motivated. Zero. Could I be wrong? maybe but that’s why I don’t comment on it (this post excluded) and wait for the investigation ect. Still, I’ve somehow found myself in arguments with friends who are apparantly ‘Left’, and others who are apparantly ‘Right’ and both sides find my moderate (?) stance appalling.

If I’m not with them I’m against them... no I’m with both of them, I’m just struggling to understand both sides apparent stupidity and extreme stances. The inability to even hear an opposing view point is scary, common sense seems to have left the building. If George Nkencho wasn’t a knife weilding dangerous aggressor who got justice he was a poor troubled man who fell victim to racial profiling and met excessive force. Evidence of systemic racism in Ireland and comparable to George Floyd and the United States history, or a violent delinquent playing dangerous games and winning dangerous prizes?

There is no middle ground apparantly, and evidence/reason/cop on be damned.

The band wagon jumping, virtue signaling and idiotic nonsense that’s surfaced slowly over the last few years is bad enough. Seems to tie in with the new wave of media, and it’s going to crash and burn soon, it has to. It’s scary to think of what will happen if it doesn’t.

Good post.

Here is a comedy video explanation of the extremes and their sameness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev373c7wSRg

hynesie08

I assume ebun joseph will retract her butter knife claims now and apologise for spreading false information now won't she?

Wibbs

Beltby wrote: »

That's extremism right there.

It's intersectional feminism with an ethnic twist. It was once considered extreme, but now is much more mainstream. Certainly as far as media attention and access goes.

Danonino. wrote: »

There is no middle ground apparantly, and evidence/reason/cop on be damned.

The band wagon jumping, virtue signaling and idiotic nonsense that’s surfaced slowly over the last few years is bad enough. Seems to tie in with the new wave of media, and it’s going to crash and burn soon, it has to. It’s scary to think of what will happen if it doesn’t.

It's the identity politics nonsense we've imported from the US. A culture that has failed many of its minorities and poor. Not a good fit elsewhere. Identity politics is toxic on a few levels and just as obsessed with "race" as any nazi and just as divisive. The major difference being it gets a near completely free ride in the media and academia(where it sprang from) and increasingly politics. We then imported multiculturalism and did so at high speed too, so that added to it as imho that's a failed politic across the board. That mix is why we're here and why we're looking down the barrel of the same BS as every other multicultural western nation.

The advantage we have in Ireland is a) the Irish psyche tends very much towards the Be Grand, middle of the road mentality and avoids extremes and b) the demographics that tend to do worse in multicultural nations and lead to social schisms are still small in number here. Plus most of those within those demographics seem to be staying well out of the nonsense. Look at the protests around this. It's a tiny number of people involved. Those marching through the shopping centres and kicking off with the hate Whites stuff at the shop involved were nearly all teens who tend to be reactive, lemming like and temporary and that has died down. The protests at the Garda station numbered a hundred people, if even that. The usual political muppets and bandwagon jumpers have a tiny mandate from the wider Irish public, even in the areas where they have some traction it's still a tiny number of people. The problem again comes from their free access and free ride from media organs like RTE.

biko

hynesie08 wrote: »

I assume ebun joseph will retract her butter knife claims now and apologise for spreading false information now won't she?

She got it from the brother.

The_Kew_Tour

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

I hope I am wrong but cannot help feel we are going to get a guard thrown under a bus for this

I can see Millions going a certain way too no matter what the official verdict

circadian

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

I hope I am wrong but cannot help feel we are going to get a guard thrown under a bus for this

I sincerely hope not, unless there is outstanding evidence against the Garda, which I seriously doubt. As I've said before, I d not think we have a systemic race issue with our policing, not like other countries for sure. I support the BLM movement in America, I believe that they have some serious social and political issues surrounding race that are in dire need of being addressed and police brutality is at the forefront of that.


We don't have that issue here, I'd prefer it if people kept to their senses and don't jump on some bandwagon from elsewhere that has little relevance in this case.

Skyrimaddict

walshb wrote: »

Thank god someone gets my point..

It’s about prevalence and frequency..

We ALL get your point, you're saying that because we, White Irish, are the majority in the country that Racism is mostly going to be a one-way landslide, with speckled cases of it going the other way.

Similar I would think to EVERY country in the world where a different ethnicity is a majority there. Try wearing shorts and a tight T-shirt in Abu Dabi.
I have worked in Nigeria before, Tonki, casper, pale face, etc were names I got at least 100 times a day. I was a project manager and yet the common term on site for calling me down to an issue was " call the pale rider"

Hodors Appletart

kat86d wrote: »

I'm just against the use of weapons for unjustified reasons end of story.

Correct, and anyone using a weapon for any unjustified reason can reasonably expect to be stopped by those charged with maintaining law and order.

Walking around in a heated state, having already assaulted one person for unjustifiable reasons, then arming oneself with a deadly weapon for more unjustifiable reasons are actions that will likely result in a person being stopped. Especially when they are swinging that deadly weapon and making threats.

malinheader

kat86d wrote: »

Yeah let's live in the world you want to live in, where people who have mental health problems get shot because a heavy handed guard lost the run of himself. He should of been disarmed and brought to justice in the proper manner.

Yeah try to disarm him and fukc the gardai if hurt or killed.
Wonder would there be as much sympathy or an outcry for the guards family.
Time to make a statement in this country, if you want to add to society and abide by the laws of this country your welcome. If you want to be a scumbag well suffer the consequences.

Signore Fancy Pants

kat86d wrote: »

Hilarious, you obviously think I'm a pro lifer who goes to church every day. I'm just against the use of weapons for unjustified reasons end of story.

Well, you are in the wrong place so or maybe the right place.

The perp had a weapon and tried to attack AGS - Thats unjustified.

AGS used their weapon - Justified.

Omackeral

kat86d wrote: »

I'm just against the use of weapons for unjustified reasons end of story.

That’s exactly what George Nkencho was guilty of. Using a weapon for unjustified reasons. The Gardai, on the other hand, not so much imo.

chopperbyrne

Kitchen knives can be very sharp, and are perfect for stabbing. If he lunged at a Garda with a kitchen knife, after almost two hours of trying to de-escalate the situation (after he had already assaulted someone) and got shot, there is no way at all that this is anything other than a justified Garda shooting, and is in no way racially motivated.

If his family did have a protection order against him, then the local Gardaí would have known that he was considered a danger to them too.

Signore Fancy Pants

GeOrGe NkEnChO wus inosent

Not.

twinytwo

kat86d wrote: »

The first thing I thought about this when I heard he had been shot by guards was how could that possibly happen. The guards should be trained enough to disarm a person without taking their life, we don't live in America. His death was unwarranted and should not have happened, he didn't have a gun. I know guards that have been run at with syringes by junkies who tell them they have hiv, a threat on there lives, they didn't shoot them dead. People need to get real on this, humanity is truely lost if you think this person deserved the die in the way he did. Shocking and sick!!!

I'm sorry, but you like so many people in this country need to take your head out of the clouds. In the real world actions have consequences. He was given ample time and opportunity to put the knife down, he chose not to.

You are right this isn't America, if it was he would have been shot a lot sooner most likely without the extra attempts to difuse the situation by AGS, correctly resulting in the use of lethal force as a final option.

racisim against minorities etc would not be tolerated but for some reason virtue signallers and racisim against whites get a free pass.

Donald Trump

biko wrote: »

hynesie08 wrote: »

I assume ebun joseph will retract her butter knife claims now and apologise for spreading false information now won't she?

She got it from the brother.

Would be irrelevant who she got it from if/when it is proven to be untrue.

pp_me

kat86d wrote: »

Yeah let's live in the world you want to live in, where people who have mental health problems get shot because a heavy handed guard lost the run of himself. He should of been disarmed and brought to justice in the proper manner.

The disarm argument cannot play for me. 1 Garda or 100 Gardaí to disarm they have to get close, getting close puts a risk on the life of the Gardaí trying to disarm. One pass of a knife in the wrong place and you have a dead Garda.

The Gardaí are not here to put their life on the line for people, that is not their job.

CrazyFather1

kat86d wrote: »

Hilarious, you obviously think I'm a pro lifer who goes to church every day. I'm just against the use of weapons for unjustified reasons end of story.

So please explain to me what reason you think old Georgy boy had for bringing a knife to the local shop?
Then carry it around with him for two hours while Garda plead with him to drop it.

Donald Trump

kat86d wrote: »

Yeah let's live in the world you want to live in, where people who have mental health problems get shot because a heavy handed guard lost the run of himself. He should of been disarmed and brought to justice in the proper manner.

I would have thought that you'd be aware that there was a video of the incident? If you are aware of it, then why haven't you looked at it?


An person who has already attacked and threatened shopworkers, then subsequently threatened Gardai with a knife, was given half an hour to calm down and disarm himself.
Only when he lunged through the air, trying to decapitate a colleague did the Guard shoot him. Guard was 100% correct to make that decision.



If you want to talk about X/Y/Z that could have been done in the half hour leading up to that then that is a different thing. Although, in that respect, surely also the fact that your man had issues with his "mental health" should be taken into account when people are inevitably criticising them for not being able to talk him into putting his deadly weapon down. How the fuck is someone, a guard or anyone else, supposed to talk sense into someone who is off their head?

Cordell

kat86d wrote: »

Yeah let's live in the world you want to live in, where people who have mental health problems get shot because a heavy handed guard lost the run of himself. He should of been disarmed and brought to justice in the proper manner.

He wasn't shot because he had mental health problems.
He was shot because he was armed and dangerous and non compliant. They tried the non lethal approaches which didn't work.

It's so easy to be brave and compassionate from behind the screen, but if I were to be there I would have preferred the "heavy handed" approach right from the first second he produced the knife.

oldtimeyfella

kat86d wrote: »

The first thing I thought about this when I heard he had been shot by guards was how could that possibly happen. The guards should be trained enough to disarm a person without taking their life, we don't live in America. His death was unwarranted and should not have happened, he didn't have a gun. I know guards that have been run at with syringes by junkies who tell them they have hiv, a threat on there lives, they didn't shoot them dead. People need to get real on this, humanity is truely lost if you think this person deserved the die in the way he did. Shocking and sick!!!

TLDR: "Gardai are expendable. They should throw themselves at some nutjob with a knife until they tire him out enough to subdue him."


Guess Gardai don't count as human in your mind.