George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

gozunda

RWCNT wrote: »

I remember you fondly from the early days of this thread and you being nice enough to engage me in a semantic little waltz (my favourite) about hate speech - so, you, I'll reply to. I'm fully retired from this bit of the topic now, I've said it all before. It's the ironclad wording that he "vowed to take the life of a guard" I object to. See my previous posts for my detailed thoughts on it. Have a good one.

Ah I see - rather than discuss the above facts - regarding this issue and the gardai being aware of said threats made against the garda in question - you digress to reminiscing about a previous comment about hate crime? You may remember the 'semantics' were all yours and were eventually overtaken by even more semantic arguments you took on with a number of other posters on other topics. But hey no matter.

There's Olympic style prizes for that type of 'waltzing' my friend

osarusan

Burkie1203 wrote: »

The attack on the shop on NYE when they threatened to kill people for being white in Ireland

The reason they were there protesting was because the shop had the temerity to dial 999 when Nkencho assaulted the manager and threatened staff and customers with a knife the day before

Oh ok, I mixed up the attacks being referenced.


As you say, they were there because the shop had the temerity to call the police during the first attack - I wouldn't class that as racist, just some vague sense of revenge, but the shouts about white bastards dying (or whatever the exact quote was) is undeniably racist.

newmember2

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

I love the way some people here are absolutely outraged at the misinformation being bandied about.

Much more concerned with the misinformation (photo & machete), than the actual acts committed by the perpetrator.

People claiming it is "racist" to state he had a machete...yet they are not concerned with the worst fallacy of all, that this was a racially motivated attack by An Garda Siochana.

Agenda's make people blind to reality.

Who said they're not concerned? Spreading lies needs to be called out whatever side it happens on.

tayto lover

Parabellum9 wrote: »

“The fed that shot him yeah? I want him terminated...want his contract terminated” “And when we find him yeah......” *crowd cheering* What part exactly did you need subtitles for??

I wouldn’t worry about junior.
He was too scared to come out of the house on the day his brother was slashing at the Garda. He might have got him quietened down if he had done although it’s unlikely as the video shows George was out of control.

Burkie1203

osarusan wrote: »

Oh ok, I mixed up the attacks being referenced.


As you say, they were there because the shop had the temerity to call the police during the first attack - I wouldn't class that as racist, just some vague sense of revenge, but the shouts about white bastards dying (or whatever the exact quote was) is undeniably racist.

Yeah. And we haven't had any reports of gardai investigating this

But they are rightly investigating the letter sent to the nkencho family and we know about it within hours.


But the narrative is Ireland is racist.

Signore Fancy Pants

newmember? wrote: »

Who said they're not concerned? Spreading lies needs to be called out whatever side it happens on.

I agree, now if you read what you quoted again, I said "more concerned".

Theres quite a difference between "more concerned" and what you said "not concerned".

Mistruths on either side are unacceptable, however, possibly the biggest mistruth is that this was a racially motivated act by AGS.

The classification of a "machete" is far far down the list of importance. We dont need to use the term "machete" to infer violence, there is plenty of evidence to prove violence.

newmember2

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

I agree, now if you read what you quoted again, I said "more concerned".

Theres quite a difference between "more concerned" and what you said "not concerned".

Mistruths on either side are unacceptable, however, possibly the biggest mistruth is that this was a racially motivated act by AGS.

The classification of a "machete" is far far down the list of importance.

Indeed, but it does have the importance of allowing a charge of racist propaganda being levelled from the opposing side.

AngeloArgue

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

I love the way some people here are absolutely outraged at the misinformation being bandied about.

Much more concerned with the misinformation (photo & machete), than the actual acts committed by the perpetrator.

While the alleged acts are serious, the shooting by police officers in front of his family might be considered as more weighty. I'm not diminishing the assault or threats but shooting someone dead might be taken as a more serious event.

Assault and threats Vs Shooting dead

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

People claiming it is "racist" to state he had a machete...yet they are not concerned with the worst fallacy of all, that this was a racially motivated attack by An Garda Siochana.

Agenda's make people blind to reality.

The claims that he had a machete were erroneous and have now being completely debunked. The claim that there was some form of racial bias in the way Gardaí managed this is an opinion which is open for debate.

tayto lover

AngeloArgue wrote: »

While the alleged acts are serious, the shooting by police officers in front of his family might be considered as more weighty. I'm not diminishing the assault or threats but shooting someone dead might be taken as a more serious event.

Assault and threats Vs Shooting dead



The claims that he had a machete were erroneous and have now being completely debunked. The claim that there was some form of racial bias in the way Gardaí managed this is an opinion which is open for debate.

Now there’s your agenda right there.

leedsforever

Thank God the Gardai are not out of control shooting everybody like the cops here in Chicago.

malinheader

AngeloArgue wrote: »

While the alleged acts are serious, the shooting by police officers in front of his family might be considered as more weighty. I'm not diminishing the assault or threats but shooting someone dead might be taken as a more serious event.

Assault and threats Vs Shooting dead



The claims that he had a machete were erroneous and have now being completely debunked. The claim that there was some form of racial bias in the way Gardaí managed this is an opinion which is open for debate.

So all the wrong doing in this case is by the gardai.
Is that you Paul. Or Brid.

tayto lover

leedsforever wrote: »

Thank God the Gardai are not out of control shooting everybody like the cops here in Chicago.

Christ that’s mad.

Signore Fancy Pants

newmember? wrote: »

Indeed, but it does have the importance of allowing a charge of racist propaganda being levelled from the opposing side.

Agreed, but it is irrelevent when it comes to the actual events.

Saying the perpetrator had a machete is less of a big deal compared to saying AGS conducted a racially motivated murder, which is whats being suggested by some.

Again I agree, untruths are dangerous.

punisher5112

The po po can do no right....

It's actually very sad seeing such heroic and helpful cops get shot down, knifed and murdered when all they've done is tried to help the community....

Yes of course there are bad apples but I'm not talking about those....

In America black on black crime and murder is absolutely out of control.
So sad to see communities like war zones and drugs the biggest killer up there with thugs and guns....

DwightSchrute1

AngeloArgue wrote: »

While the alleged acts are serious, the shooting by police officers in front of his family might be considered as more weighty. I'm not diminishing the assault or threats but shooting someone dead might be taken as a more serious event.

Assault and threats Vs Shooting dead



The claims that he had a machete were erroneous and have now being completely debunked. The claim that there was some form of racial bias in the way Gardaí managed this is an opinion which is open for debate.

There isn’t one iota of evidence to suggest racial bias in the way Gardai managed this incident. I think you know this but it doesn’t seem to suit your agenda.

AngeloArgue

malinheader wrote: »

So all the wrong doing in this case is by the gardai.
Is that you Paul. Or Brid.

No, I believe the shooting was justified and that it was not racially motivated. But I can see where others are coming from.

Some would claim that there was unconscious biases or cultural "whiteness" within police decision making. They have a lot of support institutionally, in politics and business and huge amount of the general public.

Signore Fancy Pants

AngeloArgue wrote: »

While the alleged acts are serious

Alleged? There are at least 2 acts that are confirmed. The assault of the Eurospar employee and the video documented attempted assault on AGS.

AngeloArgue wrote: »

the shooting by police officers in front of his family might be considered as more weighty. I'm not diminishing the assault or threats but shooting someone dead might be taken as a more serious event.

Of course the shooting is more "weighty" and serious but im not getting your point.

AngeloArgue wrote: »

Assault and threats Vs Shooting dead

It was "Assault and Intent", i.e intent to harm. The action of swinging the weapon towards AGS transcended the act from "threat" to "intent". Two very different acts.

AngeloArgue wrote: »

The claims that he had a machete were erroneous and have now being completely debunked.

Yes they seem to be erroneous, but irrelevent. He still had a weapon which he intended to use. It does not lessen his actions.

AngeloArgue wrote: »

The claim that there was some form of racial bias in the way Gardaí managed this is an opinion which is open for debate.

Its open for debate but is it logical and supported by historical empirical evidence?

If it was racially motivated, why did AGS wait for a significant amount of time before pulling the trigger? Why wait until an attempt on their life?

Consideration must also be given to the perpetrators motivations for assaulting the Eurospar staff. Could it have been a racially or homophobic attack?

mynamejeff

AngeloArgue wrote: »

While the alleged acts are serious, the shooting by police officers in front of his family might be considered as more weighty. I'm not diminishing the assault or threats but shooting someone dead might be taken as a more serious event.

Assault and threats Vs Shooting dead


.

Shooting dead prevents stabbing death . and or what ever else George had planned for his day .

im fine with that and im sure the gardas friends and family agree


and yes I believe that the gardas life was more important than Georges at that point in time

that fact that it happened in from of his family? is crap , they wouldn't even let him into the house ,

gozunda

AngeloArgue wrote: »

Signore Fancy Pants wrote:

I love the way some people here are absolutely outraged at the misinformation being bandied about.

Much more concerned with the misinformation (photo & machete), than the actual acts committed by the perpetrator.

While the alleged acts are serious, the shooting by police officers in front of his family might be considered as more weighty. I'm not diminishing the assault or threats but shooting someone dead might be taken as a more serious event.

Not comparable.

No one is questioning whether a shooting took place or otherwise.

The shooting in no way negates the threats / assaults.

AngeloArgue wrote: »

Signore Fancy Pants wrote:

People claiming it is "racist" to state he had a machete...yet they are not concerned with the worst fallacy of all, that this was a racially motivated attack by An Garda Siochana.
Agenda's make people blind to reality.

The claims that he had a machete were erroneous and have now being completely debunked. The claim that there was some form of racial bias in the way Gardaí managed this is an opinion which is open for debate

Claims on social media about a 'machete' are neither here nor there. It is known he threatened people and gardai with a large knife - recently identified by the gardai as a kitchen knife and not a "butter knife" as alleged by our friend Ebun.

The "claim that there was some form of racial bias in the way Gardaí managed this" has no merit whatsoever. Excuse my French but that is complete and utter bolloxs.

mynamejeff

AngeloArgue wrote: »

The claim that there was some form of racial bias in the way Gardaí managed this is an opinion which is open for debate.

what other possible way could the gardai have dealt with this incident with out putting themselves at even more risk than they already did

bearing in mind how close you have to be for pepper spray to work which they tried

Samsonsmasher

malinheader wrote: »

Trouble in what way. For her there will be no trouble.
No one will be able to challenge her because straight away it will be seen as racist.

She's going to move on to the next ambulance she can chase. It's the Al Sharpton race baiting playbook.

AngeloArgue

gozunda wrote: »

Not comparable.

No one is questioning whether a shooting took place or otherwise.

The shooting in no way negates the threats / assaults.

I think I'm being misinterpreted.

I said in a previous post that Nkencho was presenting as a deadly threat and that the threats and assault he did were a component of that threat. The police were justified in stopping that deadly threat.

Here, what I'm saying is that a shooting dead is a much bigger deal than someone assaulting and making threats.

If Nkencho had surrendered before he reached the house would we now having a thread with thousands of posts?

mynamejeff

AngeloArgue wrote: »

If Nkencho had surrendered before he reached the house would we now having a thread with thousands of posts?

properly yes

if it hadn't been videoed it would have been a poor innocent unarmed young black man being harassed by the nasty poooleice.

AngeloArgue

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Consideration must also be given to the perpetrators motivations for assaulting the Eurospar staff. Could it have been a racially or homophobic attack?

Yes, it could of.

Was it?

That's a matter of opinion and open to debate

gozunda

AngeloArgue wrote: »

I think I'm being misinterpreted.

I said in a previous post that Nkencho was presenting as a deadly threat and that the threats and assault he did were a component of that threat. The police were justified in stopping that deadly threat.

Now what I'm saying is that a shooting dead is a much bigger deal than someone assaulting and making threats.

If Nkencho had surrendered before he reached the house would we now having a thread with thousands of posts?

I believe you are involved in circular reasoning

The shooting was as a direct result of assault and threatening behaviour of the person in question and their refusal to drop their weapon.

You can't separate them out as if playing some type of theoretical game of chess.

I don't doubt if he had surrendered we would have an alternate thread ...

Manic Moran

AngeloArgue wrote: »

I think I'm being misinterpreted.

I said in a previous post that Nkencho was presenting as a deadly threat and that the threats and assault he did were a component of that threat. The police were justified in stopping that deadly threat.

Now what I'm saying is that a shooting dead is a much bigger deal than someone assaulting and making threats.

If Nkencho had surrendered before he reached the house would we now having a thread with thousands of posts?

No, there would be much less exccuse for folks to come up with fabricated controversy.

Personally, I've never been a great fan of people thinking attempted killing is any less significant than actual killing. The fact that the offender is incompetent, or the victim lucky should not, I don't think, have any particular bearing on culpability or future risk.

Sir Oxman

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Straight hard facts? You are taking the piss. The alt right manufactured all the fake news about Machetes, previous convictions and doctored images from the UK.

And the other extremity - Chu, Smith, Murphy, Michael and many, many more people with vastly bigger platforms and actual influence and power - manufactured false comparisons (and butter knives) to immediately set the narrative of racism afoot.
And here we are.
Well done all of you from both stupid, dangerous extremes.

Tipperary animal lover

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

That the guard will be found innocent of any wrong doing, the likes of ebun and her cronies will be out for their pound of flesh.

The guards were found innocent in the wheelock case too. People still going on about it.

Recently we had the partner of an ira robber take an action against the state because her rocket wielding partner was shot by Gardai while attempting to hijack a car ffs!

Bigmac1euro

Interesting how the nkencho gofundme seem to be doing better .

Last 24 hours Nkencho raised roughly 800 euro (90% Irish female names for some reason)

Shop assistant assaulted raised roughly 400 euro

joebloggs32

Manic Moran wrote: »

No, there would be much less exccuse for folks to come up with fabricated controversy.

Personally, I've never been a great fan of people thinking attempted killing is any less significant than actual killing. The fact that the offender is incompetent, or the victim lucky should not, I don't think, have any particular bearing on culpability or future risk.

I concur. If someone is guilty of attempted murder they should get the same sentence...life.

Its like they are rewarded with a lighter sentence for their failure to actually kill their intended victim.