George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

Sir Oxman

Sir Oxman wrote: »

And the other extremity - Chu, Smith, Murphy, Michael and many, many more people with vastly bigger platforms and actual influence and power - manufactured false comparisons (and butter knives) to immediately set the narrative of racism afoot.
And here we are.
Well done all of you from both stupid, dangerous extremes.

I think one of the only good things to come from all of this is that now, many more people are seeing the 'Whine Industry' merchants and what they are about and who they support.

AngeloArgue

gozunda wrote: »

I believe you are involved in circular reasoning

The shooting was as a direct result of assault and threatening behaviour of the person in question and their refusal to drop their weapon.

You can't separate them out as if playing some type of theoretical game of chess.

I don't doubt if he had surrendered we would have an alternate thread ...

My comment was made in the context of the comparison of "outrage" or "whataboutery" between both sides in the unfolding narrative:

Comparison to other incidents were white suspects had lived

Threats made to shoppers the next day

False claims of 32 convictions and machetes

Etc..etc...

I was a bit off point in expanding it into a scale of bad things to happen and putting the shooting at the top. Of course it is. But on second thought I agree that picking the individual incidents without context is falling into that same "whataboutery" that people are using to make emotional rather than rational arguments

Bigmac1euro

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

Interesting how the nkencho gofundme seem to be doing better .

Last 24 hours Nkencho raised roughly 800 euro (90% Irish female names for some reason)

Shop assistant assaulted raised roughly 400 euro

that might be a new one, But the original ( I believe) is this one

https://ie.gofundme.com/f/support-wayne-in-his-recovery

wandererz

Seems oddly similar to what happened here.
No charges against the officers.

BBC News - Jacob Blake: No police officers charged over Kenosha shooting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55554558

JP Liz V1

So now it wasn't a knife he had but a machete

leedsforever

wandererz wrote: »

Seems oddly similar to what happened here.
No charges against the officers.

BBC News - Jacob Blake: No police officers charged over Kenosha shooting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55554558

Another choir boy armed with a knife who was taking his kids without permission of the mother and the mother/ex GF was screaming at the cops to stop him. And he had broken an OOP previously with the baby momma and checked to see if she had been cheating by forcefully sticking his finger in her and then sniffing it. After meeting him in the hospital Kamal Harris said "I'm proud of him". Seems like a lovely chap.

Burkie1203

AngeloArgue wrote: »

My comment was made in the context of the comparison of "outrage" or "whataboutery" between both sides in the unfolding narrative:

Comparison to other incidents were white suspects had lived

Threats made to shoppers the next day

False claims of 32 convictions and machetes

And when you highlight the Mark Hennessy case to some of these people highlighting similar situations involving white people which didn't end up with a shooting they block you for some reason ---- maybe because they cannot allow that to enter the discussion about Nkencho only being shot because he was black

Threats made to shoppers the next day are not 'whataboutery". People were assaulted for being white in a predominatly white country. People were threatened because they were white irish people going about their daily business. I was in Blanch SC at the time and TBH I was seriously relieved to get out onto the Navan Road in my car. It was a very intimidating and unpleasant experience to be watching over your shoulder as your walking around a shopping centre and then out into the car park.

Whataboutery is claiming Nkencho was an innocent man and because he didn't have 32 convictions so that proves he was innocent and wasn't a thug and wouldn't harm a fly except for in the last 2 hours of his life he assaulted a staff member at a shop putting him in hospital and threatened other staff and customers present at the time and then tried to seriously injure or kill Gardai.


We have a serious issue in this country with central Africans who seem immune to prosecution for a wide range of violent offences


A video a few pages back of some lad who made the mad claims about Ireland and how black community need to own businesses. It costs €20 to register a business in this country. Go through every part of Dublin and you will see Polish food stores. Some Polish immigrants identified a business opportunity and they seem to be thriving businesses they created. I've never seen or heard of any animosity towards those businesses from Irish people

There seems to be a cohort of Nigerian and central African immigrants who seem to believe they are owed something by Ireland. Yet I've had to work for over 20 years as has my wife and we pay the mortgage on our house and we have never received any state help with the monthly cost. Who pays the rent on the Nkencho family home? His mother must have some job seen as the father has never been mentioned to afford a gaff like that while raising 3 or 4 children. Oh no wait .... Racist Ireland pays your rent, your living costs and gives your kids a free education. Probably free medical cover too.

We really need to have a proper visa programme based on skills shortages because if we do, it doesn't seem to be working.

Mad_maxx

Jake1 wrote: »

I think one of the only good things to come from all of this is that now, many more people are seeing the 'Whine Industry' merchants and what they are about and who they support.

Only social media users are aware of the carry on of the far left

Mainstream media gave them a pass

Buddy Bubs

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/george-nkencho-family-gardai-opened-fire-even-though-they-knew-people-were-inside-the-house-39936928.html

Lovely from the indo. Complete with picture of George as a child.

TomTomTim

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Only social media users are aware of the carry on of the far left

Mainstream media gave them a pass

That's the biggest issue, most people have no clue about how the far left behaves. Look at the Journal. They regularly do fact checks against people that they don't like on the other end of the political isle, yet they never do the same for their own side. Also you'll never see left wing protests groups actually called left wing, they are always just called protesters. If anyone on the right protests anything, they are instantly labelled far right by nearly every Irish news outlet.

BattleCorp

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/george-nkencho-family-gardai-opened-fire-even-though-they-knew-people-were-inside-the-house-39936928.html

Lovely from the indo. Complete with picture of George as a child.

They'll have him cannonized next FFS.

Keyzer

average hero wrote: »

Nobody is going to like this post because I am going to try to be balanced.

Firstly, it is a tragedy what happened. RIP to George. Also, I hope the shooter can come to terms with the shooting. That is not an easy thing to do, either.

The guard in question made a decision to fire his weapon when he felt that there was a risk to life and limb. By all accounts, the young man was carrying a weapon and had not complied with garda requests. That puts him in dangerous territory - no matter his race. Lunging as he reportedly did means that the garda made a split second decision. If he had not, we may have been mourning a garda.

The protests have backfired. They will not speed up any investigation. What they HAVE done is spread a horrible stereotype about African immigrants in particular throughout social media. Videos of crimes are being shared and that is furthering social divide. The protestors or organisers need to understand that these protests are counter-productive. The actions of beating people up and attacking a Spar shop provides the material for far-right lunatics. It is Propaganda 101 and the protestors are allowing that to happen.

I am also sick to death of the narrative that the black community are 'less than'. The black community is a great community however they should be held to the same standards as the Irish, the Polish, the Chinese and the Muslim community. They are entitled to the same rights but must comply with the same responsibilities. That means not intimidating communities like the recent protests and integrating into our laws and customs.

I refuse to believe that black people will not, cannot or are not able to abide by our laws. THAT narrative is racist and horribly destructive. But as a society we must hold that community to the same standard that we want to hold ourselves at. Anything else is racist.

As much as I commend you for writing this post, at the risk of sounding like a cynical & negative old f@rt, you're wasting your time posting this.

It's easier to accept whatever version of reality you feel most comfortable with versus actual reality.

Long gone are the days (did they ever exist?) when people objectively looked at situations, weighed up all the pro's anc con's and then formed an opinion.

Social media has turned the majority of people into complete morons, incapable of questioning anything, forming their own opinion and more than willing to accept the narrative they want to hear, no matter how destructive or decisive that narrative might be.

Facts are dead...

Effects

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

So now it wasn't a knife he had but a machete

No, you're getting mixed up. It's confirmed that he had a kitchen knife, not a machete as a lot of people were claiming.

Effects

Buddy Bubs wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/george-nkencho-family-gardai-opened-fire-even-though-they-knew-people-were-inside-the-house-39936928.html

Behind a paywall, so you shouldn't be posting that according to the forum regs.

SnuggyBear

How long does it normally take to investigate these incidents. I don't see why it would take so long or are we looking at 6 months?

Omackeral

I’m gonna say that I do hope George’s family are coping alright. No matter what you say, that’s a traumatic thing to witness. Now that the hype and attention, whether with good or bad intentions, will be subsiding a bit they will be dealing with the reality of the situation on a more real level. People often blame parents on bad kids but the fact is plenty of sh!tebags become sh!tebags despite parental efforts. No parent should ever outlive their child really.

Not excusing him but the brother was obviously grieving and probably hadn’t even processed what happened correctly. If someone put him on a stage and got him to spout off dangerous and ill advised rhetoric, then they’re a bad individual. Another way to look at it is that the man’s death has been usurped by so many arseholes from extreme ends of political life. From hard left to extreme right. They care more about their agenda than they do the actual incident.

The person responsible for George Nkencho’s death is George. I believe the Gardai were fully justified in their actions and I support them. I can understand the family’s pain. I can’t justify the actions of the scruffs running wild in Blanch but I can see loads of them were young and brainless idiots. It’s the TD’s like Murphy, Smith et al who give them credence to do it with their horrific race baiting. These should be held accountable. Ebun Joseph too, she is no more than a hate monger.

nullzero

SnuggyBear wrote: »

How long does it normally take to investigate these incidents. I don't see why it would take so long or are we looking at 6 months?

The investigation has been completed.

Ebun Joseph has ruled it a racially motivated murder by racist Irish police which happened because all Irish people are racist.

Random Account

Had a protest in Drogheda just there. Had to smile to myself questioning the reasons behind the demonstration and the remarks said towards the gardai.

donkey balls

Regarding the family looking for a new house this will more than likely happen, 11 year ago when one of George mates was killed during a robbery the family moved out after a few month's.
As for Coppinger people in my estate at the time asked her for help Regarding mgmt companies. Seemingly she told the people that approached her to more or less piss off. As it was private estate etc.

RWCNT

gozunda wrote: »

Ah I see - rather than discuss the above facts - regarding this issue and the gardai being aware of said threats made against the garda in question - you digress to reminiscing about a previous comment about hate crime? You may remember the 'semantics' were all yours and were eventually overtaken by even more semantic arguments you took on with a number of other posters on other topics. But hey no matter.

There's Olympic style prizes for that type of 'waltzing' my friend

Honestly, it was more to do with me being ready for my bed and not wanting to start a tangent in a fast moving thread I expected to have another several dozen pages on it by the time I returned, along with it being material I've already discussed as mentioned numerous times. I love my semantics, I can't lie, people can choose to engage or not as they wish! I thought my riff about the waltzing might get a wry smile out of you, sorry! At least my waltzing is better than my comedy!

Fair enough though, the acknowledgement of the speech by the gardai is a new untouched angle on what's been discussed though, so I'll bite. I've been clear from the beginning that I feel the last sentence of his speech could be interpreted as a threat and he shouldn't have said it. I object to the characterisation of his speech as a solemn vow to take the life of a Garda though, particularly as all but the last sentence could be interpreted as a call for the Gaurd's dismissal and he never actually verbalised explicitly that he wants the guard harmed. (Please don't drag me back down the rabbit hole of "contract terminated" being some kind of drill slang for "murdered" or the implication of his last sentence rather than the words uttered. Already been over this)

I believe if it was the level of threat some are making it out to be then the Gardai would have been forced to charge him, which doesn't seen to have happened, and they know exactly where to find him. What I hope has happened is that they've sat him down, made it very clear that his statement was sailing close to the wind and to be very careful with how he proceeds if he insists on continuing to make public appearances. I hope off the back of that he's decided to give the speeches a miss going forward in favour of staying at home with his family.
.

givyjoe

RWCNT wrote: »

Honestly, it was more to do with me being ready for my bed and not wanting to start a tangent in a fast moving thread I expected to have another several dozen pages on it by the time I returned, along with it being material I've already discussed as mentioned numerous times. I love my semantics, I can't lie, people can choose to engage or not as they wish! I thought my riff about the waltzing might get a wry smile out of you, sorry! At least my waltzing is better than my comedy!

Fair enough though, the acknowledgement of the speech by the gardai is a new untouched angle on what's been discussed though, so I'll bite. I've been clear from the beginning that I feel the last sentence of his speech could be interpreted as a threat and he shouldn't have said it. I object to the characterisation of his speech as a solemn vow to take the life of a Garda though, particularly as all but the last sentence could be interpreted as a call for the Gaurd's dismissal and he never actually verbalised explicitly that he wants the guard harmed. (Please don't drag me back down the rabbit hole of "contract terminated" being some kind of drill slang for "murdered" or the implication of his last sentence rather than the words uttered. Already been over this)

I believe if it was the level of threat some are making it out to be then the Gardai would have been forced to charge him, which doesn't seen to have happened, and they know exactly where to find him. What I hope has happened is that they've sat him down, made it very clear that his statement was sailing close to the wind and to be very careful with how he proceeds if he insists on continuing to make public appearances. I hope off the back of that he's decided to give the speeches a miss going forward in favour of staying at home with his family.
.

Sorry, but on earth do you think he meant when he clearly said "when we find him yeah..." He stopped himself saying more, but why do you think he wants to find the guard? To give him a stern talking to? To get directly involved in his HR Disciplinary Proceedings? Again, the persistent mental gymnastics to downplay wrongdoing on the families/George's part, versus talking up the guards wrongdoing (not you in this case) is genuinely alarming.

paw patrol

Effects wrote: »

No, you're getting mixed up. It's confirmed that he had a kitchen knife, not a machete as a lot of people were claiming.

What is a kitchen knife? I've knives in my kitchen that vary from tiny to pretty big. some would seriously damage or kill with one blow

Keyzer wrote: »

As much as I commend you for writing this post, at the risk of sounding like a cynical & negative old f@rt, you're wasting your time posting this.

It's easier to accept whatever version of reality you feel most comfortable with versus actual reality.

Long gone are the days (did they ever exist?) when people objectively looked at situations, weighed up all the pro's anc con's and then formed an opinion.

Social media has turned the majority of people into complete morons, incapable of questioning anything, forming their own opinion and more than willing to accept the narrative they want to hear, no matter how destructive or decisive that narrative might be.

Facts are dead...

I think you are correct in some ways. But there are 2 things that happened. The shooting and the reaction to that.


The majority of people in Ireland will be happy to wait on GSOC with regard to the shooting. They probably feel based on stories and videos that the shooting was justified , it probably was. I think so but GSOC will determine this not us on boards.

It's only a minority - sadly people with media access (Brid Smith, Hazel Chu, Paul Murphy and BLM types....and a progressive leaning media) that are fanning the flames with grievance politics.

Most of the reaction is actually a reaction to that reaction and the scenes afterwards in Blanch - marches , threats and actual violence. A vast majority of people in ireland don't want that BLM sh1te infecting our society.

If those people/groups waited on GSOC like proper civilised people should. Then this wouldn't be an issue.

ThunbergsAreGo

donkey balls wrote: »

Regarding the family looking for a new house this will more than likely happen, 11 year ago when one of George mates was killed during a robbery the family moved out after a few month's.
As for Coppinger people in my estate at the time asked her for help Regarding mgmt companies. Seemingly she told the people that approached her to more or less piss off. As it was private estate etc.

Thats all well and good, they can save up and get a mortgage somewhere they can afford like us plebs

Keyzer

paw patrol wrote: »

If those people/groups waited on GSOC like proper civilized people should. Then this wouldn't be an issue.

Correct...

But they wont... and the people you mentioned earlier will jump on this bandwagon to promote their own agenda.

Effects

paw patrol wrote: »

What is a kitchen knife? I've knives in my kitchen that vary from tiny to pretty big. some would seriously damage or kill with one blow.

A kitchen knife is generally a knife that you would use in a kitchen. Any sized knife from a kitchen is capable of killing someone.

It doesn't matter hugely at this stage what size it was, that'll all come out in the investigation. It looks like a decent sized chefs knife from the video though.

I don't think that many people are arguing over whether the knife he had was dangerous. Except people on both ends of the spectrum arguing whether it was a butter knife or a machete.

donkey balls

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Thats all well and good, they can save up and get a mortgage somewhere they can afford like us plebs

The council will just move them on again to another estate, One thing I dont know whether it has being touched on is what about the people living on the road where the family lives at present.

Keyzer

Keyzer wrote: »

Correct...

But they wont... and the people you mentioned earlier will jump on this bandwagon to promote their own agenda.

The whole thing is ridiculous.

Whereas I have sympathy for any bereaved family, I have more sympathy for victims.

The primary victim in this case is the staff member, who George Nchenko was identified as having assaulted.

This was followed by Gardai spending considerable time trying to talk him down, while protecting other members of the public.

Let's face it, he was pepper sprayed, and tasered, and still refused to put down his weapon.

The facts of the matter are, armed response told him drop the weapon. He refused to comply. He was shot.

Had he been white, asian, or anything else, I believe he would also have been shot.
The armed response unit don't holster their guns and ride off into the sunset if you refuse to comply with their orders.
They try to remove the threat by disarming the perpetrator. Failing that, as a last resort, they shoot. That's it.

Their duty is primarily to protect the public - whether that person has a mental health condition or not. Otherwise, anyone with a mental health condition could assault, main, or kill people at will - which would be ludicrous.

As to the whole bleeding heart brigade, - cop on. Take a step back from your well intentioned beliefs. Forget what colour George Nchenko was - because it should never have been an issue in the first place - and ask yourselves whether the guards exist to protect the public, or not?

As to the protestors.
It's time they got off their high horses, and understood that equality means they are every bit as obliged to obey the law, and to avoid racism as everyone else...

Effects

donkey balls wrote: »

One thing I dont know whether it has being touched on is what about the people living on the road where the family lives at present.

You just get on with your life and move on. Just over the road from me, a man was killed last year, by another man with mental health issues.

Residents on the street are just getting on with their lives.

paw patrol

Effects wrote: »

A kitchen knife is generally a knife that you would use in a kitchen. Any sized knife from a kitchen is capable of killing someone.

It doesn't matter hugely at this stage what size it was, that'll all come out in the investigation. It looks like a decent sized chefs knife from the video though.

I don't think that many people are arguing over whether the knife he had was dangerous. Except people on both ends of the spectrum arguing whether it was a butter knife or a machete.

ah i see your point now.
we agree!

RWCNT

givyjoe wrote: »

Sorry, but on earth do you think he meant when he clearly said "when we find him yeah..." He stopped himself saying more, but why do you think he wants to find the guard? To give him a stern talking to? To get directly involved in his HR Disciplinary Proceedings? Again, the persistent mental gymnastics to downplay wrongdoing on the families/George's part, versus talking up the guards wrongdoing (not you in this case) is genuinely alarming.

I think it's a vaguely worded allusion to a threat. He shouldn't have said it and I hope he now realises that. There's a difference between an allusion to a vague threat and a blatant death threat though. Surely you'd agree there are levels between "When we find him..yeah" and the statement of "I want him dead" falsely ascribed via the dodgy subtitles on the vid that has been circulating. The existence of the video with those subtitles alone shows a will to overstate the wrongdoing of George's brother, which I find very unfair and compelled to correct considering he's a very young and seemingly immature man just days removed from seeing his brother killed before his eyes. At present it appears to me that the Gardai took the only course of action available to them on the day - regardless of the nature of George's death I feel if I were in Emmanuel's (think that's his name) position I would be a long way from being able to process everything properly and my judgement would be very clouded. Hence, I don't like trying to cast him as some sort of wannabe cop-killer off the back of one sentence that fell out of his mouth a day or two after what must have been a ridiculously traumatic event. I hope to god he keeps himself out of public situations for the foreseeable as he's in no fit state and I see no good that can come of it.

Hope this is clear. I'm repeating myself a lot here and not being met by much in the way of new arguments so don't intend to keep labouring this point much further.