George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

B.A._Baracus

Effects wrote: »

A kitchen knife is generally a knife that you would use in a kitchen. Any sized knife from a kitchen is capable of killing someone.

It doesn't matter hugely at this stage what size it was, that'll all come out in the investigation. It looks like a decent sized chefs knife from the video though.

I don't think that many people are arguing over whether the knife he had was dangerous. Except people on both ends of the spectrum arguing whether it was a butter knife or a machete.

One could add that on the pro George side people are arguing that it was not a machete as a way to make a stink (as that was incorrect) So they can ignore the bigger issue of why he was welding it in the shop and more importantly to members of the guards.

MonsterCookie

just listened to the RTE rAdio1 coverage from yesterday. overall I feel it is well balanced. one of the african community leaders even saying 'let's wait for the GSOC report, but i don't think it's a racial incident' or words to that effect.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21890104

if i've been reminded of anything over the last few days, it's that twitter and facebook are absolute cesspits when it comes to issues like this. social media really does bring out the worst in people.

Snickers Man

mynamejeff wrote: »

is that the guy who gave the press conference outside the ccj after the Aaron Brady (may he rot in hell) verdict ?

No. His name's Ben Scallan from the Irish Freedom Party. That's the crowd led by Herman "The German" Kelly. Scallan ran as a candidate in Dublin Bay South in the 2020 gen election. 245 first preference votes or 0.62%.

Total waste of space.

MonsterCookie

MonsterCookie wrote: »

just listened to the RTE rAdio1 coverage from yesterday. overall I feel it is well balanced. one of the african community leaders even saying 'let's wait for the GSOC report, but i don't think it's a racial incident' or words to that effect.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21890104

if i've been reminded of anything over the last few days, it's that twitter and facebook are absolute cesspits when it comes to issues like this. social media really does bring out the worst in people.

I avoided Twitter and Facebook as much as possible during this.

gozunda

RWCNT wrote: »

...

I believe if it was the level of threat some are making it out to be then the Gardai would have been forced to charge him, which doesn't seen to have happened, and they know exactly where to find him. What I hope has happened is that they've sat him down, made it very clear that his statement was sailing close to the wind and to be very careful with how he proceeds if he insists on continuing to make public appearances. I hope off the back of that he's decided to give the speeches a miss going forward in favour of staying at home with his family.
.

Whats for sure - it seems to have gone very quite in the interim. But no - garda do not have to make an immediate charge - a separate investigation may possibly be ongoing. They can also caution people in relation to such behaviour.

Media reports indicate that garda seem to have some serious concerns about escalating racial tensions and not inflating the current situation. Something that some of our public mouthpieces might do well to remember.

Kivaro

MonsterCookie wrote: »

just listened to the RTE rAdio1 coverage from yesterday. overall I feel it is well balanced. one of the african community leaders even saying 'let's wait for the GSOC report, but i don't think it's a racial incident' or words to that effect.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21890104

if i've been reminded of anything over the last few days, it's that twitter and facebook are absolute cesspits when it comes to issues like this. social media really does bring out the worst in people.

Did that RTE coverage include the follow up "protests" where random white people were racially abused by the protestors and forced to hide from them? If it did, then it was well balanced. If not, well .......

WrenBoy

gozunda wrote: »

Whats for sure - it seems to have gone very quite in the interim. But no - garda do not have to make an immediate charge - a separate investigation may possibly be ongoing. They can also caution people in relation to such behaviour.

Media reports indicate that garda had also seem to have serious concerns about escalating racial tensions and not allowing them to be inflated. Something that some of our public mouthpieces might do well to remember.

My only fear is that "serious concerns about escalating racial tensions and not allowing them to be inflated" becomes a point that influences decision making for the Gardaí.

WrenBoy

WrenBoy wrote: »

My only fear is that "serious concerns about escalating racial tensions and not allowing them to be inflated" becomes a point that influences decision making for the Gardaí.

There's little advantage in poking the bear when you can just wait.

He can be arrested next week, next month.....

It took years to bring brady back and he was a more dangerous man

SnuggyBear wrote: »

How long does it normally take to investigate these incidents. I don't see why it would take so long or are we looking at 6 months?

it's a murder investigation. There's a lot of statements, video and forensic evidence.

Then add in that gsoc are horrible slow.

B.A._Baracus

MonsterCookie wrote: »

just listened to the RTE rAdio1 coverage from yesterday. overall I feel it is well balanced. one of the african community leaders even saying 'let's wait for the GSOC report, but i don't think it's a racial incident' or words to that effect.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21890104

if i've been reminded of anything over the last few days, it's that twitter and facebook are absolute cesspits when it comes to issues like this. social media really does bring out the worst in people.

I am not sure if people will agree with me on this but I think the likes of Twitter and Facebook just give tossers a platform to share their opinion. As opposed to bringing the worst out in people I think the worst is already there.

Then again, maybe we as people just give social media too much credit. Just because a few people say things does not make it something, a thing, a deal.

WrenBoy

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I am not sure if people will agree with me on this but I think the likes of Twitter and Facebook just give tossers a platform to share their opinion. As opposed to bringing the worst out in people I think the worst is already there.

Then again, maybe we as people just give social media too much credit. Just because a few people say things does not make it something, a thing, a deal.

I agree with you in general but when those people are politicians who influence the future of our country then yes I believe it does make it a thing.

givyjoe

RWCNT wrote: »

I think it's a vaguely worded allusion to a threat. He shouldn't have said it and I hope he now realises that. There's a difference between an allusion to a vague threat and a blatant death threat though. Surely you'd agree there are levels between "When we find him..yeah" and the statement of "I want him dead" falsely ascribed via the dodgy subtitles on the vid that has been circulating. The existence of the video with those subtitles alone shows a will to overstate the wrongdoing of George's brother, which I find very unfair and compelled to correct considering he's a very young and seemingly immature man just days removed from seeing his brother killed before his eyes. At present it appears to me that the Gardai took the only course of action available to them on the day - regardless of the nature of George's death I feel if I were in Emmanuel's (think that's his name) position I would be a long way from being able to process everything properly and my judgement would be very clouded. Hence, I don't like trying to cast him as some sort of wannabe cop-killer off the back of one sentence that fell out of his mouth a day or two after what must have been a ridiculously traumatic event. I hope to god he keeps himself out of public situations for the foreseeable as he's in no fit state and I see no good that can come of it.

Hope this is clear. I'm repeating myself a lot here and not being met by much in the way of new arguments so don't intend to keep labouring this point much further.

Don't think the threat was vague at all, it's a pretty clear threat. What's not clear is if it was a threat to kill or just a hiding. Clouded judgement is not an excuse for such threats, nor is it an excuse for very deliberately presenting/going along with a false narrative that this fella was a gentle soul who wouldn't hurt a fly. I certainly wouldn't be standing in front of a crowd making such thinly veiled threats if my brother had acted in the same way.

frash

Deleted User wrote: »

The whole thing is ridiculous.

Whereas I have sympathy for any bereaved family, I have more sympathy for victims.

The primary victim in this case is the staff member, who George Nchenko was identified as having assaulted.

This was followed by Gardai spending considerable time trying to talk him down, while protecting other members of the public.

Let's face it, he was pepper sprayed, and tasered, and still refused to put down his weapon.

The facts of the matter are, armed response told him drop the weapon. He refused to comply. He was shot.

Had he been white, asian, or anything else, I believe he would also have been shot.
The armed response unit don't holster their guns and ride off into the sunset if you refuse to comply with their orders.
They try to remove the threat by disarming the perpetrator. Failing that, as a last resort, they shoot. That's it.

Their duty is primarily to protect the public - whether that person has a mental health condition or not. Otherwise, anyone with a mental health condition could assault, main, or kill people at will - which would be ludicrous.

As to the whole bleeding heart brigade, - cop on. Take a step back from your well intentioned beliefs. Forget what colour George Nchenko was - because it should never have been an issue in the first place - and ask yourselves whether the guards exist to protect the public, or not?

As to the protestors.
It's time they got off their high horses, and understood that equality means they are every bit as obliged to obey the law, and to avoid racism as everyone else...

I wish I could thank this twice or more

MonsterCookie

Kivaro wrote: »

Did that RTE coverage include the follow up "protests" where random white people were racially abused by the protestors and forced to hide from them? If it did, then it was well balanced. If not, well .......

I posted the link so people can listen and decide for themselves.

Effects

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

One could add that on the pro George side people are arguing that it was not a machete as a way to make a stink (as that was incorrect) So they can ignore the bigger issue of why he was welding it in the shop and more importantly to members of the guards.

That's not a realistic argument though. It was the anti George side that brought up the machete. The same way they made up a long list of convictions, and fake photos of the man who had been attacked earlier. One poster on here claimed the weapon he had was actually closer to a sword than a kitchen knife. People were trying to claim he was mad man running around with a machete, to make it out to be worse than it was. A kitchen knife is deadly enough in reality.

RWCNT

Effects wrote: »

That's not a realistic argument though. It was the anti George side that brought up the machete. The same way they made up a long list of convictions, and fake photos of the man who had been attacked earlier. One poster on here claimed the weapon he had was actually closer to a sword than a kitchen knife. People were trying to claim he was mad man running around with a machete, to make it out to be worse than it was. A kitchen knife is deadly enough in reality.

This is it - the motivation of the "pro-George" side is pretty simple to understand.

I can't bend my head around the mentality of anyone who would feel the need to invent details about his criminal past, make up that he slashed someone's face or that he had a machete/sword. Surely the concrete details of the case speak for themselves.

mynamejeff

RWCNT wrote: »

I think it's a vaguely worded allusion to a threat. He shouldn't have said it and I hope he now realises that. There's a difference between an allusion to a vague threat and a blatant death threat though. Surely you'd agree there are levels between "When we find him..yeah" and the statement of "I want him dead" falsely ascribed via the dodgy subtitles on the vid that has been circulating. The existence of the video with those subtitles alone shows a will to overstate the wrongdoing of George's brother, which I find very unfair and compelled to correct considering he's a very young and seemingly immature man just days removed from seeing his brother killed before his eyes. At present it appears to me that the Gardai took the only course of action available to them on the day - regardless of the nature of George's death I feel if I were in Emmanuel's (think that's his name) position I would be a long way from being able to process everything properly and my judgement would be very clouded. Hence, I don't like trying to cast him as some sort of wannabe cop-killer off the back of one sentence that fell out of his mouth a day or two after what must have been a ridiculously traumatic event. I hope to god he keeps himself out of public situations for the foreseeable as he's in no fit state and I see no good that can come of it.

Hope this is clear. I'm repeating myself a lot here and not being met by much in the way of new arguments so don't intend to keep labouring this point much further.

I wonder who you would feel if you were subject to his threat ?
or being branded a racist simply because you did your job and didn't want to get stabbed ,

in a fair and just world he would be dragged out of his free house and arrested , jailed and if at all possible removed permanently from Ireland.

but that wont happen will it coz he is black

As it is Arron bradys family (may he rot in hell) are being prosecuted for threats and interfering in a investigation , why not Georges family ,? coz they is black ?
sounds sort of racist

TomTomTim

RWCNT wrote: »

This is it - the motivation of the "pro-George" side is pretty simple to understand.

I can't bend my head around the mentality of anyone who would feel the need to invent details about his criminal past, make up that he slashed someone's face or that he had a machete/sword. Surely the concrete details of the case speak for themselves.

Yeah, once you ignore all the race baiting, which has nothing to do with "understanding", and everything to do with furthering their political agendas.

frozenfrozen

we have entered the sea-lioning stage

Kraftwerk

RWCNT wrote: »

This is it - the motivation of the "pro-George" side is pretty simple to understand.

I can't bend my head around the mentality of anyone who would feel the need to invent details about his criminal past, make up that he slashed someone's face or that he had a machete/sword. Surely the concrete details of the case speak for themselves.

Well if you want to lump everyone into 2 groups. Pro and anti then how do you wrap your head around people who lie and spread misinformation to cast the Gardai as racist? It was a butter knife, there were 35 Gards who couldn't disarm him, he was shot in the back, he was shot while on the ground, he never attacked anyone, the Gardai never tasered him etc etc

The "Pro" side were the first ones to start spreading lies about the actions of the Gardai being racist.

Delia2021

This is my first post. I have never felt the need more to post something more than I do now . I am not political and I am not racist.

Firstly thank you boards.ie for allowing this discussion to happen. Secondly Ireland is a country of a hundred thousand welcomes. If you work hard here you’ll get on we welcome refugees- our own people we exported made a huge difference to other countries - we were at the end of No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish. So for any Nigerians following all of this that’s where the Irish we were bottom of the pile. But we didn’t get anything free not land no houses nothing we worked for everything!

Thirdly if this is a mental health issue that George suffered hopefully some good can come out of it for his family who are grieving his loss in that maybe donations should be made to mental health organisations and maybe more awareness can be given to these issues. I am sorry for his family I am sure George didn’t wake up that morning planning to be dead or even attacking people but something in his head went wrong along the way and no one can account for what goes on in someone’s else’s head. I am sorry for the Eurospar manager that got allegedly attacked and all the Gardaí involved - yee didn’t expect this when yee woke up that morning to be victims of a possibly mentally deranged person. Our thoughts are with yee.

Finally shame on all the politicians who tried to get political advantage out of this ! Ruth Coppinger Paul Murphy Hazel Chu and that SF councillor shame shame on yee.

Ireland is not a racist country we welcome all people Work hard pay your taxes like us all .

Snake Plisken

So just wanted to post this as US cops have body cams and you can see how scary it is to have someone come at you with a knife, the suspect clearly has problems but she is shot a number of times and still a threat.
Mods can remove if they don't think it's suitable, I just think it should show what police have to face and the split second decisions they need to make when faced with suspects with knifes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeYN4t1oJ2E

RWCNT

Kraftwerk wrote: »

Well if you want to lump everyone into 2 groups. Pro and anti then how do you wrap your head around people who lie and spread misinformation to cast the Gardai as racist? It was a butter knife, there were 35 Gards who couldn't disarm him, he was shot in the back, he was shot while on the ground, he never attacked anyone, the Gardai never tasered him etc etc

The "Pro" side were the first ones to start spreading lies about the actions of the Gardai being racist.

I don't particularly want to put people into two camps of pro and anti, but generalised for the sake of my point and borrowed a phrase from another poster.

The motivation for everything you mention above is crystal clear. It downplays the threat George posed to further the idea that it was an unjust killing. It's actually extremely difficult to further that idea without doing any of the things you describe.

By contrast, I don't really see why any of the made up stuff about his convictions, the face slashing or the weapon are necessary at all. The concrete facts of what occurred on the day should suffice.

mynamejeff

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

There's little advantage in poking the bear when you can just wait.

He can be arrested next week, next month.....

It took years to bring brady back and he was a more dangerous man



it's a murder investigation. There's a lot of statements, video and forensic evidence.

Then add in that gsoc are horrible slow.

o I don't know , identifying and immediately arresting and jailing those involved in the violent disorder and threats against gardai would send a fairly strong and clear message to those that though it a acceptable way to act


it took about 2 years for the garda who shot mark Hennessey to be cleared of any wrong doing . nice to have that hanging over you for two years , and we know more than ever how a hate campaign can effect some ones mental health

Effects

Snake Plisken wrote: »

She is shot a number of times and still a threat.

A managed threat. They kept their distance and controlled the situation.
The first officer didn't seem to hit her when she shot. The second officer took her down fairly fast though.

Good move bringing the K9 unit in to let them disarm her.

Effects

mynamejeff wrote: »

o I don't know , identifying and immediately arresting and jailing those involved in the violent disorder and threats against gardai would send a fairly strong and clear message to those that though it a acceptable way to act.

Gardai face that kind of crap every single day, they can't arrest and jail everyone.

mynamejeff

RWCNT wrote: »

I don't particularly want to put people into two camps of pro and anti, but generalised for the sake of my point and borrowed a phrase from another poster.

The motivation for everything you mention above is crystal clear. It downplays the threat George posed to further the idea that it was an unjust killing. It's actually extremely difficult to further that idea without doing any of the things you describe.

By contrast, I don't really see why any of the made up stuff about his convictions, the face slashing or the weapon are necessary at all. The concrete facts of what occurred on the day should suffice.

but you are manipulating the facts , claiming that the brother didn't say something he clearly did is manipulating the narrative and trying to down play important concrete facts.

Effects

mynamejeff wrote: »

but you are manipulating the facts , claiming that the brother didn't say something he clearly did is manipulating the narrative and trying to down play important concrete facts.

He was reacting to his brother being killed in front of the family house. He was stupid about it. He's been pretty silent since then though.

mynamejeff

Effects wrote: »

Gardai face that kind of crap every single day, they can't arrest and jail everyone.

this isn't some drunk ass hole shouting at a passing patrol car ,

this is some one clearly identifying a specific person and demanding their death while speaking to a gathered crowd.

threats to kill is not a minor crime and in this instance a strong clear and unmistakable response would make that obvious to all

mynamejeff

Effects wrote: »

He was reacting to his brother being killed in front of the family house. He was stupid about it. He's been pretty silent since then though.

do you think no action should be taken ?

again f the threats were against you or your family member would you feel the same ?

Kraftwerk

RWCNT wrote: »

I don't particularly want to put people into two camps of pro and anti, but generalised for the sake of my point and borrowed a phrase from another poster.

The motivation for everything you mention above is crystal clear. It downplays the threat George posed to further the idea that it was an unjust killing. It's actually extremely difficult to further that idea without doing any of the things you describe.

By contrast, I don't really see why any of the made up stuff about his convictions, the face slashing or the weapon are necessary at all. The concrete facts of what occurred on the day should suffice.

Why did they want to portray it as an unjust killing though? So it will be viewed as racist. From the outset the intent of "Pro" commentators was to portray it as a racial incident. Why do they want that? Why would people who claim they want to end racism go out of their way to create and exacerbate racial issues with lies and misinformation? I understand Ebun Joseph etc who are cashing in stoking racial hatred. That's simply greed. But what about the people desperate to jump on board?

Given the timeline its easier to under the "anti" side as a lot of it was a response to the dishonest narrative that it was a racially motivated killing. They latched onto more robust "evidence" to use to show it wasn't a racially motivated killing as the concrete facts were already being ignored by the people crying racism who had invented their own version of events.