George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

political analyst

SnuggyBear wrote: »

This is a good article. It looks like the last shot is what will be a big focus of the investigation.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-40201541.html?type=amp

How is it possible for someone who has been shot 3 or 4 times to still be able to make significant movement towards someone else? How was able to still hold a knife after being shot 3 or 4 times? If you get shot then you'll be putting your hands on the wound and writhing in pain.

Hellokitty1212

political analyst wrote: »

How is it possible for someone who has been shot 3 or 4 times to still be able to make significant movement towards someone else?

I’m far from a medical expert but apparently the phrase “killed instantly” is never true - blood moving round the body can take 30-45 seconds to stop even if the aorta is severed.

A body already in motion can keep moving - even for a few seconds is not impossible as seemed up happen here.

Gatling

political analyst wrote: »

How is it possible for someone who has been shot 3 or 4 times to still be able to make significant movement towards someone else? How was able to still hold a knife after being shot 3 or 4 times? If you get shot then you'll be putting your hands on the wound and writhing in pain.

It's quite possible and happens on a regular basis across the world ,
9mm bullets are not as effective as some people believe in stopping someone compared.to other rounds,
People have survived multiple rounds from rifle's and lived to tell the tale

political analyst

Hellokitty1212 wrote: »

I’m far from a medical expert but apparently the phrase “killed instantly” is never true - blood moving round the body can take 30-45 seconds to stop even if the aorta is severed.

A body already in motion can keep moving - even for a few seconds is not impossible as seemed up happen here.

But wouldn't you be in pain after being shot even only once? How would you be able to still hold a knife after being hit 2 or 3 times?

Gatling

political analyst wrote: »

But wouldn't you be in pain after being shot even only once?

Probably didn't even feel it

Hellokitty1212

Gatling wrote: »

Probably didn't even feel it

One of the in-laws was hit by a car while on a stag weekend, high as a kite.

Got up and argued with the driver and only a few minutes later fell down - he’d broken his ankle.

The human body is a weird thing.

gctest50

political analyst wrote: »

How is it possible for someone who has been shot 3 or 4 times to still be able to make significant movement towards someone else? How was able to still hold a knife after being shot 3 or 4 times? If you get shot then you'll be putting your hands on the wound and writhing in pain.

Bullet-resistant vest under the puffy jacket like quite a few (would-be) criminals ?

On a load of drugs* maybe ?(the post-mortem will tell)

*Tasers exist more or less for this reason - American police loosing morale after shooting PCP addicts to little or next to know effect

jmreire

Hellokitty1212 wrote: »

I’m far from a medical expert but apparently the phrase “killed instantly” is never true - blood moving round the body can take 30-45 seconds to stop even if the aorta is severed.

A body already in motion can keep moving - even for a few seconds is not impossible as seemed up happen here.

Yes, thats very true. Unless it was a " killer" shot head or heart, then a person could have several bullets in him / her, and if they had a gun themselves, they could still move and fire it. It all boils down to where the bullets struck.

Donald Trump

Hellokitty1212 wrote: »

One of the in-laws was hit by a car while on a stag weekend, high as a kite.

Got up and argued with the driver and only a few minutes later fell down - he’d broken his ankle.

The human body is a weird thing.

To be fair, your mother in law is one fierce hardy oul' wan.


Never mind being able to keep up with the lads antics on a mad stag, but the fact that she got hit by a car and it was the driver was the one who broke his ankle!

Hellokitty1212

Donald Trump wrote: »

To be fair, your mother in law is one fierce hardy oul' wan.


Never mind being able to keep up with the lads antics on a mad stag, but the fact that she got his by a car and it was the driver was the one who broke his ankle!

I wouldn’t put it past her actually!!

jmreire

Hellokitty1212 wrote: »

I wouldn’t put it past her actually!!

:):):);) Shure, you could not be up to 'em.

Notdeco

The sister sitting under a well placed photo montage of her brother, that doesn't look like it belongs behind the sofa.
The claims of her opening the door ect, don't sit right. Also the bullets, they only broke the glass, they did not go through (maybe one did at ground level, but lost all velocity)
A 9 mm is not really a killer round like most people want you to think. Yea it can kill.

But it is really a weak round in the grand scale.

Don't believe the movies.

nullzero

As the movement towards the Gardai with the knife was not mentioned at all, it would appear to suggest that it was intentionally omitted from the segment.

Bringing that into the equation may well have meant no interview with the sister.

In reality whilst having a member of his family present in this TV segment was emotionally impactful, it does little for the efficacy of a purely factual feature on the case.

Whilst we may all be proven wrong in some way in regards to aspects of this case some facts remain difficult to shift. This wasn't one Garda up an alley on their own in the dead of night, the officer who shot this man was surrounded by their colleagues and being watched by everyone in the neighbourhood in Broad daylight. Procedure wasn't going to be casually flaunted in this instance.

In the end the Prime Time segment was reasonably balanced, although the issue of mental health, whilst in no way a trivial matter and relevant to the case was put front and centre, which I'm not completely sure was the correct course of action.

The suggestion by Vicky Conway that crack teams of psychiatric social workers be on call to accompany all ARU units made me laugh. Why not give the Gardai more training in that area if its of such importance? If that's the level of insight she offered in the former role it's no surprise her association with it is now described in the past tense.

Larbre34

No two gunshot subjects are alike. Absolutely none. Two different people could get popped two or three times in the same entry sites and a few mms difference in deflection, fragmentation, anatomical differences etc could be the difference between alive and dead, incapacitated or carrying on moving like a Terminator. Thats before we talk about adrenaline, narcotic, mental state otherwise etc.

Its pointless to debate it, we've seen the footage. After 3 shots are heard, he is still moving as much as before any shots are heard. After shot 4, he is still upright and moving but far more lethargically. After shot 5, he disappears from view, presumably going down on the ground.

The inquest and inquiry will do their best to establish the forensics of the matter.

TheChizler

nullzero wrote: »

As the movement towards the Gardai with the knife was not mentioned at all, it would appear to suggest that it was intentionally omitted from the segment.

Haven't seen it but at a guess they're only reporting on things backed up by the Garda press release.

Renjit

Hellokitty1212 wrote: »

One of the in-laws was hit by a car while on a stag weekend, high as a kite.

Got up and argued with the driver and only a few minutes later fell down - he’d broken his ankle.

The human body is a weird thing.

Adrenaline rush.

newmember2

Renjit wrote: »

Adrenaline rush.

I see in the Examiner piece it explicitly says the family's legal team are not pursuing any sort of racial angle to the killing. Looks like the whole event was hi-jacked by vested interests.

Eric Cartman

newmember? wrote: »

I see in the Examiner piece it explicitly says the family's legal team are not pursuing any sort of racial angle to the killing. Looks like the whole event was hi-jacked by vested interests.

Absolutely has been, lucinda creighton paul murphy and ebun joseph trying to big up the racial angle for their own political gain

oldtimeyfella

political analyst wrote: »

How is it possible for someone who has been shot 3 or 4 times to still be able to make significant movement towards someone else? How was able to still hold a knife after being shot 3 or 4 times? If you get shot then you'll be putting your hands on the wound and writhing in pain.

Google "most times shot and survived".


Plenty of double digit examples right there. Life isn't the movies/a videogame.

AngeloArgue

SnuggyBear wrote: »

This is a good article. It looks like the last shot is what will be a big focus of the investigation.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-40201541.html?type=amp

The bad video footage doesn't give us much on the circumstances of the last shot. He could've of still, in the judgement of the shooting officer, been presenting as a deadly threat to either him or his colleague.

Yes, we see him start to go down, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he is not still presenting as a deadly threat while he still had the knife clutched in his hand, and is within reach of stabbing a Gardaí.

Every situation is unique, and none are going to be textbook out of the training manual. Some may criticise the Gardaí for letting themselves to come within the reach of a suspect with a knife.

Maybe it was a last ditch attempt to stop him from entering the dwelling, without the use of lethal force, in order to protect the inhabitants of the house at great personal risk of life to the Guard involved.

jimmycrackcorm

nullzero wrote: »

The suggestion by Vicky Conway that crack teams of psychiatric social workers be on call to accompany all ARU units made me laugh.

Great idea, more targets for a crazed knife wielder / gunmen.
Gardai already call in trained negotiators in situations where they can, but that only works as long as they're not under attack.

Snickers Man

Jeff2 wrote: »

In all due respect it wasn't a killing.

What? He's still alive is he?

I think you have a problem with the English language.

Now if you were to object to the killing being called a murder, until such time as someone has been convicted of such a crime, I could understand. But to say it wasn't a killing is just obtuse.

The man is dead!

gozunda

political analyst wrote: »

How is it possible for someone who has been shot 3 or 4 times to still be able to make significant movement towards someone else? How was able to still hold a knife after being shot 3 or 4 times? If you get shot then you'll be putting your hands on the wound and writhing in pain.

This was posted previously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STspPota7es

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeYN4t1oJ2E

gozunda

SnuggyBear wrote: »

This is a good article. It looks like the last shot is what will be a big focus of the investigation.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-40201541.html?type=amp

Fairly thorough analysis and well written article.

Better than this one which includes a photo that would lead you to think that George was about 12 years old at the time of the shooting

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40202912.html

Maxpfizer

gozunda wrote: »

This was posted previously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeYN4t1oJ2E

Why didn't they just shoot the knife out of her hand?

Bloody sexist police upholding the patriarchy!

Snickers Man

Some comments on the "criminal investigation" angle which bear repeating, as well as the quote from the Examiner article.

Cordell wrote: »

No, it seems to be the normal process, and rightly so.

TheChizler wrote: »

Completely normal procedure for shooting deaths involving a police force, even in the trigger happy U S of A.

Irish Examiner wrote:

The decision is part of a procedural process within Gsoc and follows an initial examination of the incident and a decision that a full investigation into “potential” criminal offences is required.

Various sources have stressed this does not mean it suspects the garda who shot Mr Nkencho committed a criminal offence, but that a full investigation is needed to determine whether that is the case.

The same process was instituted in the Gsoc investigation into the shooting dead by a garda of Mark Hennessy in May 2018, which resulted in the DPP directing that no criminal prosecution should be taken against the garda

I think we could do with a bit of winding in of necks!!
This was a terrible tragedy. The young man seems to have been disturbed more than malevolent. The Gardai were perfectly right to attempt to subdue him.
Maybe there are lessons to learn about how such incidents could be resolved without anybody losing their life.
In any case, I think this should be seen in the context of the Abbeylara shooting 20 years ago, when another young man with mental/emotional issues was armed and involved in a stand off with Gardai and ended up getting killed. There were criticisms of the time that the Gardai might have approached it differently and although there was no suggestion of malice or intent to kill the young man, he ended up being shot dead.
Have we learned nothing from that?

Our largely unarmed police force is one of the great achievements of this state. I accept that police need armed backup to face dangerous murderous criminals. But every police shooting is to be regretted and should be investigated with a view to determining if it was absolutely necessary.

B.A._Baracus

Hellokitty1212 wrote: »

I’m just off a Facebook chat where I asked a pal who believes the whole story - every bit.

I asked “what kind of mental health issues did he have ? Anxiety like my wife has? Dementia like the mother in law ? autism like next door’s wee one ???”

“He was in a mental health crisis”

Few minutes of back and forward and ending in “why can’t you just accept he was ill??”

There’s no moving some people from their views, no matter how deluded.

This world is mad. People are thick.

I could go to Dunnes stores tomorrow, pull down my pants in the middle of the isle and take a sh*t. Some will call me disgusting, others will praise me as having to go and "Fu*k what people think" and finally others will believe I have some medical condition.

While truth be told I would just be a dirt bird. World is mad.

Rubberchikken

Maybe time for body cams on all gardai. Ones they can't interfere with then we'd have an idea of what occurs.
I wont defend the guy with the knife/,whatever, but to say that the report the gardai give on the incident is accurate or even vaguely truthful is a stretch too far.

weldoninhio

political analyst wrote: »

How is it possible for someone who has been shot 3 or 4 times to still be able to make significant movement towards someone else? How was able to still hold a knife after being shot 3 or 4 times? If you get shot then you'll be putting your hands on the wound and writhing in pain.

How many times have you been shot??

newmember?

newmember? wrote: »

How do they determine what order the bullets were fired in?

?
The member who shot him has to justify every shot.