George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

AlmightyCushion

Vieira82 wrote: »

Well then he must have been superman to still being at it after being pepper sprayed and tasered... there's also plenty of videos of ppl being pepper sprayed and tasered that shows how effective it is...

Or you can always trust these guys to show it to you: https://youtu.be/Dzks7WYM4p0

There are also videos of people being knocked out after one punch. However, that doesn't meant that one punch will knock everyone out.

edit: Just seen the video. Jackass as proof? Christ above.

mynamejeff

Vieira82 wrote: »

Well then he must have been superman to still being at it after being pepper sprayed and tasered... there's also plenty of videos of ppl being pepper sprayed and tasered that shows how effective it is...

Or you can always trust these guys to show it to you: https://youtu.be/Dzks7WYM4p0

aw now I see what your up to ,


don't feed it just report it :)

batman_oh

Vieira82 wrote: »

Well then he must have been superman to still being at it after being pepper sprayed and tasered... there's also plenty of videos of ppl being pepper sprayed and tasered that shows how effective it is...

Or you can always trust these guys to show it to you: https://youtu.be/Dzks7WYM4p0

That's an amazing contribution but he was still going after them and after being shot more than once (and not in the leg or finger like your wonderful fantasy).

Frankie Machine

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Basically its a lie that Vicky Conway was sacked/asked to resign from the Policing Authority as you claimed.

It may be a lie, but you certainly haven't proved that at all.


I mean, she was appointed in January '19, according to DCU...

https://www.dcu.ie/lawandgovernment/news/2019/01/dr-vicky-conway-appointed-as-member-of-the-policing-authority

So that's less than two years she has served.


But if we are to believe the Irish Times, membership is for three or four years.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/what-is-the-policing-authority-1.2624320#:~:text=The%20Policing%20Authority%20is%20an%20independent%20body%20set,a%20chairwoman%2C%20former%20head%20of%20Revenue%20Josephine%20Feehily.


In fact, 2.3 of the Authority's Governance Framework states...

Members hold office for a period not exceeding four years, and may be reappointed for one
further term. There is specific provision in the Act for four Members to be appointed for
three years to facilitate staggering future re-appointments and thus maintain the
experience and knowledge of the Authority.

https://www.policingauthority.ie/assets/uploads/general_images/Policing_Authority_Governance_Framework_June_2016.pdf


She was appointed with Paul Mageean according to the Authority's website.

https://www.policingauthority.ie/en/all-media/news-detail/appointment-of-two-new-members-to-the-policing-authority

I can't see any announcement of his leaving the Authority.

If he hasn't, then it looks like a decision that has nothing to do with a fixed or defined term of office.


The 31st December was serendipitously close at hand of course, for anyone who wanted or needed to create the impression of a natural ending.


You haven't proven a thing.

weldoninhio

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Thats not true. Her contract finished on 31st December. You are attempting to create fake news.

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Im not the one manufacturing the fake news saying she was sacked by the way.

https://twitter.com/drvconway/status/1344712790850809860?s=19

Maybe i'm a bit dim, but could you point out where she mentions any contract ending??

Annasopra

Frankie Machine wrote: »

It may be a lie, but you certainly haven't proved that at all.


I mean, she was appointed in January '19, according to DCU...

https://www.dcu.ie/lawandgovernment/news/2019/01/dr-vicky-conway-appointed-as-member-of-the-policing-authority

So that's less than two years she has served.


But if we are to believe the Irish Times, membership is for three or four years.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/what-is-the-policing-authority-1.2624320#:~:text=The%20Policing%20Authority%20is%20an%20independent%20body%20set,a%20chairwoman%2C%20former%20head%20of%20Revenue%20Josephine%20Feehily.


In fact, 2.3 of the Authority's Governance Framework states...



https://www.policingauthority.ie/assets/uploads/general_images/Policing_Authority_Governance_Framework_June_2016.pdf


She was appointed with Paul Mageean according to the Authority's website.

https://www.policingauthority.ie/en/all-media/news-detail/appointment-of-two-new-members-to-the-policing-authority

I can't see any announcement of his leaving the Authority.

If he hasn't, then it looks like a decision that has nothing to do with a fixed or defined term of office.


The 31st December was serendipitously close at hand of course, for anyone who wanted or needed to create the impression of a natural ending.


You haven't proven a thing.

Provide the evidence she was sacked then

Vieira82

biko wrote: »

Indeed.
Here is a video where a knifeman is shot several times and still manages to charge again.
https://youtu.be/KT0KcenH_eQ

If a person rushes me with a knife and I have a gun I will fire many times centre mass and not stop after each round to check if it was a good hit.
It's my life or his, and it's not going to be mine.

First of all you can clearly see how distressed that person was. He wanted to die. Having two people pointing guns at you is the worse you can do in this situation.

They immediately left the vehicle and pointed the gun at him and started screaming at him, distressing him even more...

In my line of work I had to go into someone's land once and they where not happy at all. The old man and his son had both knifes in their hands. They where angered because part of what I was representing made them loose 50k in sales on the last few months. They where mad and wanted to protect their land.

My colleague immediately ran in the car saying they have knifes. I approached and introduced myself. They kept saying they lost money because of this crap, screaming at me, I kept my kool and said "look I understand that, it was really bad timing, though I wasn't responsible for it, I was there to do a different job to ensure his property was respected" (which I was). They lowered the knifes, we had a chat and I did my work.

Another place I was greeted by a screaming 80 year old man screaming at the top of his lungs that he was born in that house. The work I represented would see his house being bulldozed. He also had a knife in his hands and the family trying to stop him doing something crazy. I talked with them and explained what I was doing and that I lived locally (which was true too...) after 2 hours of talking, got offered to dinner but politely refused and came back the next day to do my job.

My job ended up ensuring that house was not destroyed and it's still standing today, 10 years later. If I had turned away at the very first sign of conflict, not only was my job not done but there would have been real consequences for all involved.

So I know what I'm talking about and that video clearly shows so many ways to have been diffused. It just turned into a screaming match and that guy wanted to die that day. That's the state of his mental health.

If he wanted to kill somebody he had two chances at the end of the video and did not do it. Often once they do kill somebody is accidental and they then are filled with regret for doing so and end up in jail or killing themselves before trial...

Most people do not want to harm others intentionally, and we should never have our laws written because of the very few that do.. that's the recipe of ending democracy and starting a police state.

mynamejeff

mynamejeff wrote: »

this is a hugely high profile event and deserving of due attention ,

He doesn't have contact in the UK or Nigeria ? shoplifters ? hardly the same thing as a direct threat to a specific person

your experiences are your own I have no idea what they are but

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/26/section/5/enacted/en/html

the offence carries 10 years , theft usually carry's 5, depending on the amount

You think the victim isn't aware of the threats ? All some one needs is information (which he looked for in the video ) and a blade to carry them out , look how close George got in a random event .
did you see the pics of the wrong garda being circulated ? if he got hurt because of it would the threat be more realistic for you

You don't actually have any experience of this do you?

Theft and threats both carry ten years on indictment, 12 months on summery. They are equal in law. Your averages mean squat when actually, theft averages less than a year, where did you get the 5 from? What's the average for threats? Do you know?

I said it before, high profile means **** all. You can think it should but it doesn't. What counts is evidence and the need, actual need to see the person in custody. It doesn't apply here. If it did, he would have been arrested.

Having family abroad means little. Granted it can be a factor but again, he lives here long-term with no known violent tendencies or the means to have the threat carried out. The crime is unlikely to result in a significant sentence and the evidence is not, at this moment in time, overwhelming. A video online is not as awesome and rare as you imply. Crimes are caught on camera all the time. Again, shoplifting yet station bail given daily to most.

The threat was made online, not face to face and against a person that likely had worse said to his face by people more capable of carrying it out. The Garda in question is unlikely to be under the bed in fear. Far more stressed out by the investigation then the threat I would say. Gardai get threatened, usually to their faces and usually by actually violent criminals.

As for the images circulating and the threat, your showing emotion here with your comments. That's not how it works.

Skyrimaddict

Below is a copy of a complaint I have sen to RTE.

Hello,
I wish to register a complaint around your prime time program for the shooting of George NKencho.
I have found this program distressing that a state broadcaster has taken what is very cleary a pro-perpetrator stance on what is a still on-going garda investigation.
I feel that as an Irish citizen this program has done nothing but stand to fan more flames of racial discontent to the already charged atmosphere of media who ignore facts and instead call out people whos job it is protect ordinary citizens in times where a member of the public, Mental health issues or not, acts in a manner in which George Nkencho acted. 
I am looking for clarification on why, in the middle of a GSOC investigation your team interviewed family members in what was clearly a biased account of information, which is contradictory to the video which was circulated on various whatsapp channels?
Shame on your service as the national broadcaster. 

biko

https://twitter.com/drvconway/status/1344369582686011392?s=20

Frankie Machine

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Provide the evidence she was sacked then

I have never said she was sacked, nor even that she was forced to resign. So there's no burden of proof on me.

You have failed to prove your case, which you made so stridently.

biko

Vieira82 wrote: »

Most people do not want to harm others intentionally, and we should never have our laws written because of the very few that do.. that's the recipe of ending democracy and starting a police state.

Au contraire, laws are written specifically for the few that cannot adapt to regular societal norms.

Not harming others is the societal norm.
Some people will do that anyway.
The law is to punish these people.

givyjoe

Vieira82 wrote: »

First of all you can clearly see how distressed that person was. He wanted to die. Having two people pointing guns at you is the worse you can do in this situation.

They immediately left the vehicle and pointed the gun at him and started screaming at him, distressing him even more...

In my line of work I had to go into someone's land once and they where not happy at all. The old man and his son had both knifes in their hands. They where angered because part of what I was representing made them loose 50k in sales on the last few months. They where mad and wanted to protect their land.

My colleague immediately ran in the car saying they have knifes. I approached and introduced myself. They kept saying they lost money because of this crap, screaming at me, I kept my kool and said "look I understand that, it was really bad timing, though I wasn't responsible for it, I was there to do a different job to ensure his property was respected" (which I was). They lowered the knifes, we had a chat and I did my work.

Another place I was greeted by a screaming 80 year old man screaming at the top of his lungs that he was born in that house. The work I represented would see his house being bulldozed. He also had a knife in his hands and the family trying to stop him doing something crazy. I talked with them and explained what I was doing and that I lived locally (which was true too...) after 2 hours of talking, got offered to dinner but politely refused and came back the next day to do my job.

My job ended up ensuring that house was not destroyed and it's still standing today, 10 years later. If I had turned away at the very first sign of conflict, not only was my job not done but there would have been real consequences for all involved.

So I know what I'm talking about and that video clearly shows so many ways to have been diffused. It just turned into a screaming match and that guy wanted to die that day. That's the state of his mental health.

If he wanted to kill somebody he had two chances at the end of the video and did not do it. Often once they do kill somebody is accidental and they then are filled with regret for doing so and end up in jail or killing themselves before trial...

Most people do not want to harm others intentionally, and we should never have our laws written because of the very few that do.. that's the recipe of ending democracy and starting a police state.

Interesting insights from your experiences but they differ to this case, George most certainly did do harm to one person before shooting, beating up the shopworker and the video shows him swinging a blade very close to a guards head. Very much look likes he intended to do serious harm with the blade, having already badly beaten the shopworker. Not at all comparable to the incidents you personally experienced.

Skyrimaddict

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

Below is a copy of a complaint I have sen to RTE.

Hello,
I wish to register a complaint around your prime time program for the shooting of George NKencho.
I have found this program distressing that a state broadcaster has taken what is very cleary a pro-perpetrator stance on what is a still on-going garda investigation.
I feel that as an Irish citizen this program has done nothing but stand to fan more flames of racial discontent to the already charged atmosphere of media who ignore facts and instead call out people whos job it is protect ordinary citizens in times where a member of the public, Mental health issues or not, acts in a manner in which George Nkencho acted. 
I am looking for clarification on why, in the middle of a GSOC investigation your team interviewed family members in what was clearly a biased account of information, which is contradictory to the video which was circulated on various whatsapp channels?
Shame on your service as the national broadcaster. 

Do people actually think primetime is balanced?

Annasopra

Frankie Machine wrote: »

I have never said she was sacked, nor even that she was forced to resign. So there's no burden of proof on me.

You have failed to prove your case, which you made so stridently.

There is no evidence of these claims.

Kivaro wrote:

Yesterday she was fired/asked to resign from the Policing Authority due to her tweets on how this knife wielding man was "gunned down" by the Gardai.

There is evidence on her tweets her contract ended on December 31st.

Frankie Machine

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

There is evidence on her tweets her contract ended on December 31st.

Her tweets serve her purposes.

We are not obliged to take them at face value, like gullible children.

IF you have anything to say about the discrepancy between

1. her 23-month contract, and...

2. the sources I've provided you with which suggest that such a contract is a very odd thing...

then by all means, continue...

mynamejeff

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

You don't actually have any experience of this do you?

Theft and threats both carry ten years on indictment, 12 months on summery. They are equal in law. Your averages mean squat when actually, theft averages less than a year, where did you get the 5 from? What's the average for threats? Do you know?

I said it before, high profile means **** all. You can think it should but it doesn't. What counts is evidence and the need, actual need to see the person in custody. It doesn't apply here. If it did, he would have been arrested.

Having family abroad means little. Granted it can be a factor but again, he lives here long-term with no known violent tendencies or the means to have the threat carried out. The crime is unlikely to result in a significant sentence and the evidence is not, at this moment in time, overwhelming. A video online is not as awesome and rare as you imply. Crimes are caught on camera all the time. Again, shoplifting yet station bail given daily to most.

The threat was made online, not face to face and against a person that likely had worse said to his face by people more capable of carrying it out. The Garda in question is unlikely to be under the bed in fear. Far more stressed out by the investigation then the threat I would say. Gardai get threatened, usually to their faces and usually by actually violent criminals.

As for the images circulating and the threat, your showing emotion here with your comments. That's not how it works.

im not going to discuss my experiences here , if you were smart you wouldn't either ,

I pointed out your error and now your getting pantsy about it ? ok

5 years is one of the requirements for an arrestable offence ie theft or indeed threats to kill .

high profile means nothing to the dpps office , really ? I guess that shows your real life experience , Dpps office wont even take a call off some one below the rank of super , why do you think that is .

Georges had a address in the UK , how do you know the brother doesn't as well. so yes it is very relevant . how much do you know about the offender here ? one of the points im making is that it should result in a significant sentence

again this is not shoplifting this is a clear and direct threat to the life of a serving member of AGS because of something he did in the course of his duty, not some teenage girl lifting some makup or some junkie robbing meat from lidl

the threat was made to a baying and cheering crown through a megaphone not online ?

https://www.donegaldaily.com/2020/09/03/man-in-court-for-threatening-to-kill-garda/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/man-24-gets-suspended-sentence-for-threatening-to-slit-garda-s-throat-1.4305227


heres one from yesterday

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/dad-threatened-to-slit-gardas-throat-in-front-of-children-39937482.html


people make threats against gardai regularly yes , and they are regularly arrested and prosecuted for it , too lightly in my opinion , this is an opportunity to do something about this .

would have thought you would be interested that happening but apparently not

Hellokitty1212

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

There is no evidence of these claims.



There is evidence on her tweets her contract ended on December 31st.

No there isn’t. The only evidence of that would be seeing her contract.

Her tweeting “my time is done” could just as easily indicate she was fired, or quit.

Vieira82

Vieira82 wrote: »

First of all you can clearly see how distressed that person was. He wanted to die. Having two people pointing guns at you is the worse you can do in this situation.

They immediately left the vehicle and pointed the gun at him and started screaming at him, distressing him even more...

In my line of work I had to go into someone's land once and they where not happy at all. The old man and his son had both knifes in their hands. They where angered because part of what I was representing made them loose 50k in sales on the last few months. They where mad and wanted to protect their land.

My colleague immediately ran in the car saying they have knifes. I approached and introduced myself. They kept saying they lost money because of this crap, screaming at me, I kept my kool and said "look I understand that, it was really bad timing, though I wasn't responsible for it, I was there to do a different job to ensure his property was respected" (which I was). They lowered the knifes, we had a chat and I did my work.

Another place I was greeted by a screaming 80 year old man screaming at the top of his lungs that he was born in that house. The work I represented would see his house being bulldozed. He also had a knife in his hands and the family trying to stop him doing something crazy. I talked with them and explained what I was doing and that I lived locally (which was true too...) after 2 hours of talking, got offered to dinner but politely refused and came back the next day to do my job.

My job ended up ensuring that house was not destroyed and it's still standing today, 10 years later. If I had turned away at the very first sign of conflict, not only was my job not done but there would have been real consequences for all involved.

So I know what I'm talking about and that video clearly shows so many ways to have been diffused. It just turned into a screaming match and that guy wanted to die that day. That's the state of his mental health.

If he wanted to kill somebody he had two chances at the end of the video and did not do it. Often once they do kill somebody is accidental and they then are filled with regret for doing so and end up in jail or killing themselves before trial...

Most people do not want to harm others intentionally, and we should never have our laws written because of the very few that do.. that's the recipe of ending democracy and starting a police state.

I don't often post directly in relation to work but,

I have over 20 years in my job, during which I have talked many many people down from hysteria, I have been in many situations where there have been serious and immediate risks evident. I have been threatened, abused, assaulted and I have been scared.
I have never shot anyone, thankfully, and I hope the day never comes that I have to. However, I do know that every single situation is different and has potential to go anyway.
And I can assure you, that should the situation arise, where I feel that using my gun is necessary and justified, then I will use it. Just because that has not happened prior to now, does not mean that it wont happen in the future.

Vieira82

biko wrote: »

Au contraire, laws are written specifically for the few that cannot adapt to regular societal norms.

Not harming others is the societal norm.
Some people will do that anyway.
The law is to punish these people.

According to that then, we should adapt the death penalty and cutting off of hands of thieves like in Saudi Arabia? Because judging by what happened, your words and this statement now from you that's what you are advocating for...

Omackeral

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

There is no evidence of these claims.

Where’s your evidence that the machete claims came
from the “alt-right”. You’ve dodged the question literally dozens of times. Who’s to say the word wasn’t simply used as a synonym for a large knife by some Facebook eejit?

Is it ok for people to say butter knife unchallenged?

Hellokitty1212

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't often post directly in relation to work but,

I have over 20 years in my job, during which I have talked many many people down from hysteria, I have been in many situations where there have been serious and immediate risks evident. I have been threatened, abused, assaulted and I have been scared.
I have never shot anyone, thankfully, and I hope the day never comes that I have to. However, I do know that every single situation is different and has potential to go anyway.
And I can assure you, that should the situation arise, where I feel that using my gun is necessary and justified, then I will use it. Just because that has not happened prior to now, does not mean that it wont happen in the future.

If this was America we’d be automatically saying “thank you for your service” but we’re irish so, fair play there. Stay safe out there!

cdeb

Vieira82 wrote: »

According to that then, we should adapt the death penalty and cutting off of hands of thieves like in Saudi Arabia? Because judging by what happened, your words and this statement now from you that's what you are advocating for...

This is one of the stupidest examples of "So what you're saying is..." that I have ever seen tbh.

Hellokitty1212

cdeb wrote: »

This is one of the stupidest examples of "So what you're saying is..." that I have ever seen tbh.

Cathy Newman on steroids.

biko

Vieira82 wrote: »

According to that then, we should adapt the death penalty and cutting off of hands of thieves like in Saudi Arabia? Because judging by what happened, your words and this statement now from you that's what you are advocating for...

Not sure how you can possibly infer that from my post.

cdeb

biko wrote: »

Not sure how you can possibly infer that from my post.

I mean, most times I wouldn't even bother engage with that sort of comment - but in this instance I am genuinely intrigued to see where it came out of.

mynamejeff

can we stop feeding it please

golondrinas

Hijpo wrote: »

So what your saying is the hospitals suffer from systemic racism as well???

Maybe Jessie Buckley sat on his pillow (Fargo no 4)

gozunda

Vieira82 wrote: »

Black, White, Brown, Green, Blue, Yellow, Pink, White. Whatever the color. I can't understand how so many Gardai could not immobilize an individual with a knife. Even using the fire arm. There's ways to do so without killing the individual... I'd understand he got shot in the leg and bled from that, that would have been involuntarily killing the person, but that's not what hapenned...


The case would be very different if he, (whatever his color was) was brandishing a fire arm. This means he could easily shot any of the Gardai at a distance and end someone's life which in my opinion would mean it was legitimate to shoot at him in self-defense.

White, Black, Purple, Deep Blue, Cyan, whatever... you really do not want Gardai or any law enforcement to use this kind of force often, unless of course you want Ireland to become a carbon copy of the US or Brazil and it's police forces that have incredible authority and even military grade equipment. If that's what you want for Ireland, kool.. good for you, but might as well just have a private army start being our police force as it would be the same...

A police force is suppose to maintain order in society, there's loads and loads of ways to do so without shooting someone brandishing a knife. Tasers, pepper sprays just to mention a few... I just can't believe in 2021 we still can't find a way to use a non-lethal way to stop someone brandishing a knife, specially someone belonging to the police force...

Not this again.

Ordinary gardai are unarmed. In this case the amed response unit were called in only after the individual refused to comply with gardai requests to drop his weapon and remained a threat to others.

Gardaí in the ARU are trained to shoot at ‘centre mass’ of body. Not legs or other body parts. Look it up if you don't understand.

As to disarming a knife welding individual. No its not always possible to "immobilise" a person hell bent on attacking others with a knife
https://youtu.be/STspPota7es

And yes both taser and pepper spray were used.

Gardaí in ireland are unarmed. In cases of the the Armed Response Unit - there have been just six fatal shootings in the line of duty since 1998. So no there's is no "carbon copy carbon copy of the US or Brazil" :rolleyes:

Vieira82

mynamejeff wrote: »

the gardai do know how to deal with it and they did so correctly and well ,

your agenda and understanding is awful ,

you should read the thread before making such posts

I have no agenda, I never mentioned no race or creed. Your agenda though with personal attacks when you lack arguments though are absolutely laughable.

Gotta love when people faced with real information that burst their hatred little bubble...

Like I said before, facts don't care about your feelings. So thanks for feeling, but you're not adding anything constructive to the discussion.