George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

biko

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Gardai or blamed no matter what they do, the Irish Council for Civil Liberties, don't want them to have bodycams, pepper spray, etc

I think in this case a bodycam would have been very good to have, even if the footage is not made public.
In fact, I cannot think of any case where a camera isn't a benefit. (that's a separate thread though)

Vieira82

gozunda wrote: »

To reiterate...

And again to form lol. Standard response when you can't formulate a coherent argument or back up what you say. Well done btw.

Take a read again - My comments simplty outlined how your arguments to date do not stand up to scrutiny.

You're welcome.

Talks the guy WITHOUT any arguments whatsoever and then using my own words.

Thanks but I'll start charging you copyright charges though ok?

FreudianSlippers

Excuse me for not reading almost 7000 posts in this thread, but I have read the last 20 or so and I think it has become (or always was) a debate of (i) whether the Gardaí shot the guy just because he was black or (ii) are AGS racist or not.

I think obviously those questions go hand-in-hand but the answer to one doesn't determine the answer to the other.

Clearly, there are questions to be asked about the detail of the shooting of this man, or any person.
Clearly, there are questions to be asked about racism in AGS - and anyone who is shouting down these questions I would suggest has a motive for doing so.
Clearly, there is absolutely zero question that there are people in AGS who are probably racist and to suggest otherwise is either naïve or has a motive for saying so.

However, on the flipside, I do not believe that anyone can unquestionably state as a fact that either (i) AGS is a racist institution or all Gardaí are racist or (ii) this man was shot simply for the fact that he was black.

Vieira82

biko wrote: »

I think in this case a bodycam would have been very good to have, even if the footage is not made public.
In fact, I cannot think of any case where a camera isn't a benefit. (that's a separate thread though)

+1, I think the use of cameras would be very important, also could help massively in many other cases to have that form of info.

Though there needs to be an assurance they couldn't just turn them off like it happens in the US.

But then again, like in all crime, if there's a solution the criminals will find a way to overcome it, and the same with the body cameras if there's a police officer with ill intent... so it's a constant battle and no system will ever be perfect.

weldoninhio

biko wrote: »

I think in this case a bodycam would have been very good to have, even if the footage is not made public.
In fact, I cannot think of any case where a camera isn't a benefit. (that's a separate thread though)

Maybe a helmet cam would be better. Body cams are good and all, but would you see the perpetrators eyes? Would you be able to guage from their soul that they're just a scared little boy with a large knife, crying out for a hug, and confused at the people shouting "Drop the knife" rather than a grown man with a lethal weapon with a body cam. :P:P

FreudianSlippers

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Clearly, there are questions to be asked about racism in AGS - and anyone who is shouting down these questions I would suggest has a motive for doing so.

Why do you believe this?
Are you aware of some issues regarding racism in AGS?

hynesie08

There were at least 2 garda cars following him, would they not be equipped with dashcam??

hynesie08

hynesie08 wrote: »

There were at least 2 garda cars following him, would they not be equipped with dashcam??

no.

gozunda

Vieira82 wrote: »

Talks the guy WITHOUT any arguments whatsoever and then using my own words.
Thanks but I'll start charging you copyright charges though ok?

Ah I see the issue. I was under the impression you had actually bothered to read what was written no? No worries

Btw. the constant use of passive aggressive smileys don't help when youve said nothing by way of reply

Bobblehats

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Excuse me for not reading almost 7000 posts in this thread, but I have read the last 20 or so and I think it has become (or always was) a debate of (i) whether the Gardaí shot the guy just because he was black or (ii) are AGS racist or not.

It never really was a debate it’s just after an astonishing 460 pages or so of general consensus a few oddities are eventually likely to surface who seek to go against the grain. But feel free to chime in

TheChizler

Bobblehats wrote: »

It never really was a debate it’s just after an astonishing 460 pages or so of general consensus a few oddities are eventually likely to surface who seek to go against the grain. But feel free to chime in

And plenty others who can't deal with people having different opinions to themselves.

Bobblehats

TheChizler wrote: »

And plenty others who can't deal with people having different opinions to themselves.

I’ve lived my whole life with adverse opinions, but this here?!

This is justice; not fashion and I don’t care what it will never be an acceptable fashion to carry a knife. Let alone use it like that.

Snake Plisken

Another good article on politicians and NGO's pushing the racist narrative it sickens me that we find these NGO's and grifters like Mark "Sound Migration"Malone

https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1347527621479976960?s=19

Vieira82

gozunda wrote: »

Ah I see the issue. I was under the impression you had actually bothered to read what was written no? No worries

Btw. the constant use of passive aggressive smileys don't help when youve said nothing by way of reply

when it's from the likes of you and your "agenda" or kind of arguments, I read only the first one then I no longer waste time with your kind. Out of respect for the other users, this is my last reply to you. Have a great time writing on the walls ok?

BattleCorp

Vieira82 wrote: »

when it's from the likes of you and your "agenda" or kind of arguments, I read only the first one then I no longer waste time with your kind. Out of respect for the other users, this is my last reply to you. Have a great time writing on the walls ok?

I've a few of questions for you.

1. What would you have done differently if you were 'the Gardai'?

2. If you had to shoot someone that was close enough to attack you, would you aim for the arms/legs rather than the torso?

3. If you were faced with someone who had a knife and was threatening you, and you knew that they had mental issues, would you do anything different because they had mental issues?

FreudianSlippers

bubblypop wrote: »

Why do you believe this?
Are you aware of some issues regarding racism in AGS?

So you're claiming there is no reason to ask questions as to whether there is any racism in AGS or are you claiming there are no people with racist views whatsoever in AGS, either way it's idiotic.

FreudianSlippers

Bobblehats wrote: »

It never really was a debate it’s just after an astonishing 460 pages or so of general consensus a few oddities are eventually likely to surface who seek to go against the grain. But feel free to chime in

I'll more than feel free, not that I need your silly little permission.

Vieira82

BattleCorp wrote: »

I've a few of questions for you.

1. What would you have done differently if you were 'the Gardai'?

2. If you had to shoot someone that was close enough to attack you, would you aim for the arms/legs rather than the torso?

3. If you were faced with someone who had a knife and was threatening you, and you knew that they had mental issues, would you do anything different because they had mental issues?

If you had read my posts before I did admit two things

1 - If I was in Georges place I probably would have done the same.

2- If I was in the Gardai place I probably would have done the same.

I also explained how this seems like a huge missunderstanding between all parts and the death could be avoided...

FreudianSlippers

Bobblehats wrote: »

I’ve lived my whole life with adverse opinions, but this here?!

This is justice; not fashion and I don’t care what it will never be an acceptable fashion to carry a knife. Let alone use it like that.

Can you remind me what the punishment is under OWA 1990, s9(5)-(7) again?

Vieira82

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

So you're claiming there is no reason to ask questions as to whether there is any racism in AGS or are you claiming there are no people with racist views whatsoever in AGS, either way it's idiotic.

careful now you'll get everyone hate posting on you now for talking about racism here...

FreudianSlippers

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

So you're claiming there is no reason to ask questions as to whether there is any racism in AGS or are you claiming there are no people with racist views whatsoever in AGS, either way it's idiotic.

no, I am not claiming either of those things, what I am wondering is why we need to ask them now, in relation to this incident?
and, I am wondering if there has been some suggestions of racism within AGS somewhere else?
I have no doubt that there are people with racist views in AGS, but is there any suggestion that those views have resulted in some racist behavuours or any discrimnation against anyone because of some racism in AGS.

BattleCorp

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

So you're claiming there is no reason to ask questions as to whether there is any racism in AGS or are you claiming there are no people with racist views whatsoever in AGS, either way it's idiotic.

Do you think the Gardai who shot George Nkencho were racist?

FreudianSlippers

BattleCorp wrote: »

I've a few of questions for you.

1. What would you have done differently if you were 'the Gardai'?

Irrelevant - that's not what's pertinent here. You don't even know what you would have done differently unless you were the member(s) of AGS in question.

2. If you had to shoot someone that was close enough to attack you, would you aim for the arms/legs rather than the torso?

Irrelevant as this poster is, presumably, not a trained STOC member.

3. If you were faced with someone who had a knife and was threatening you, and you knew that they had mental issues, would you do anything different because they had mental issues?

Again, the question is irrelevant as it asks the poster to engage in speculation on the basis of a lack of personal knowledge as I outlined above.

WrenBoy

Vieira82 wrote: »

It does seem it hurt because you did comment didn't you?

So we'll assume everytime you write on the site its because you are "hurt" ?
This is the argument style of a teenager.

Vieira82 wrote: »

One thing is feeling something based on nothing, another thing is experience in real life situations which I explained I have, like the person I was talking with have too.

I disagree that you talking to an angry farmer in a field is comparable to attempting to dealing with a violent man armed with a knife attempting to stab armed Gardaí in a high pressure situation.

Vieira82 wrote: »

I could say I am sadened that you took it out of context, but that's all part of your plan and others like you, create a different narrative so you can attack the person not the argument.

My plan? ooh I see now.. ok I see where your coming from now.
I must be part of Gemma Doherty's cabal because Im not blaming the Guards for defending themselves. Ad hominems indeed :pac::pac::pac:

FreudianSlippers

bubblypop wrote: »

no, I am not claiming either of those things, what I am wondering is why we need to ask them now, in relation to this incident?
and, I am wondering if there has been some suggestions of racism within AGS somewhere else?
I have no doubt that there are people with racist views in AGS, but is there any suggestion that those views have resulted in some racist behavuours or any discrimnation against anyone because of some racism in AGS.

BattleCorp wrote: »

Do you think the Gardai who shot George Nkencho were racist?

The circumstances of the shooting are a matter for GSOC. If you want to engage in daylight AGS fellatio on this website, that's your business. However, you're engaging in pure speculation as much as anyone else on here - in fact, you cannot factually state either way whether or not there is racism in AGS or not, whether race was a motivating factor in the shooting or whether the individuals were racist themselves.

Unless in fact you're claiming to be that person or persons, in which case I'd advise you to step away from your internet connections.

Vieira82

WrenBoy wrote: »

So we'll assume everytime you write on the site its because you are "hurt" ?
This is the argument style of a teenager.

I disagree that you talking to an angry farmer in a field is comparable to attempting to dealing with a violent man armed with a knife attempting to stab armed Gardaí in a high pressure situation.

My plan? ooh I see now.. ok I see where your coming from now.
I must be part of Gemma Doherty's cabal because Im not blaming the Guards for defending themselves. Ad hominems indeed :pac::pac::pac:

So let's see if I get this. I post an opinion, never mentioned race or individual. You and so many others charge at Ad Hominems.

But if i do it "oh you're using Ad Hominems" you guys are hilarious, you can do and say whatever you want attack, shame, tell others to shut up. But no one can do the same at you as you all behave like snowflakes... Typical again, of your kind...

But again, I will just stop answering you out of respect of other users that are trying to engage in an actual discussion, thing you obviously lack the capacity for...

WrenBoy

Vieira82 wrote: »

But if i do it "oh you're using Ad Hominems" you guys are hilarious, you can do and say whatever you want attack, shame, tell others to shut up. But no one can do the same at you as you all behave like snowflakes... Typical again, of your kind...

What kind would that be ?

mynamejeff

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

The circumstances for the shooting are a matter for GSOC. If you want to engage in daylight AGS fellatio on this website, that's your business. However, you're engaging in pure speculation as much as anyone else on here - in fact, you cannot factually state either way whether or not there is racism in AGS or not, whether race was a motivating factor in the shooting or whether the individuals were racist themselves.

Unless in fact you're claiming to be that person or persons, in which case I'd advise you to step away from your internet connections.

you stated that very fact just a few posts ago

but provided no evidence of course

BattleCorp

Vieira82 wrote: »

1 - If I was in Georges place I probably would have done the same.

So,you'd assault someone, threaten others, threaten Gardai, refuse to drop your weapon, and then try stab/kill a member(s) of the Gardai? Cool.

2- If I was in the Gardai place I probably would have done the same.

So would I.

I also explained how this seems like a huge missunderstanding between all parts and the death could be avoided...

Actually no, you didn't. And if you did, you don't understand what the word 'misunderstanding' means. Misunderstanding pretty much means a failure to understand correctly.

The guy assaulted someone - any misunderstanding so far?
The guy had a knife - any misunderstanding here?
The guy threatened others in the shopping centre - any misunderstanding here?
The guy was followed and eventually surrounded by Gardai - any misunderstanding here?
The guy refused to put down his knife despite being repeatedly told to do so while having guns pointed at him - any misunderstanding here?

Where's the misunderstanding?

gozunda

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Excuse me for not reading almost 7000 posts in this thread, but I have read the last 20 or so and I think it has become (or always was) a debate of (i) whether the Gardaí shot the guy just because he was black or (ii) are AGS racist or not.

I think obviously those questions go hand-in-hand but the answer to one doesn't determine the answer to the other.

Clearly, there are questions to be asked about the detail of the shooting of this man, or any person.
Clearly, there are questions to be asked about racism in AGS - and anyone who is shouting down these questions I would suggest has a motive for doing so.Clearly, there is absolutely zero question that there are people in AGS who are probably racist and to suggest otherwise is either naïve or has a motive for saying so.

However, on the flipside, I do not believe that anyone can unquestionably state as a fact that either (i) AGS is a racist institution or all Gardaí are racist or (ii) this man was shot simply for the fact that he was black.

No I don't believe it is a debate based diametrically on those two view points.

The discussion has covered the incident in its totality. Not just the shooting but everything to do with the incident and what has happened after.. And whilst issues of racism have certainly been discussed - a lot of that deals with the various allegations of same by third parties before many of the facts of the incident were fully known.

Interestingly a recent article in The Irish Examiner stated that it was understood that -

legal representatives are not making any racism-related allegations against the gardaí and are focusing on “grave concerns” regarding the shooting itself.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-40201541.html

Details released of the GSOC inquiry seems to be much the same from what has been detailed in the official statements todate.