George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

Zatoichi

Effects wrote: »

But people have been arguing this. That they don't work in this exact type of situation. That the Gardai don't carry them, and don't know how to use them.

This is yet another instance where less lethal is proven to be less than reliable. The Guards have confirmed he was tased twice and neither worked. There are lots of other instances all over the world where all other variants of less lethal have failed during critical moments. Arguing that they should have used <insert less lethal weapon> instead is bad faith imo given the critical point at which he was trying to enter the house. I don't believe for a second if he was allowed enter the house and hurt someone inside, the family and the media would be screaming about the protection order and blaming the Guards for not stopping him.


The only reason I entered this thread is that I read on another forum that George slashed the face of the shop assistant with the knife. I checked some of the Irish news sites and not one of them even stated that he had attacked anyone before the Guards shot him. When the media have abandoned their profession either though laziness or to push false narratives, it's no wonder social media can fill the vacuum with lies.

Zatoichi

Effects wrote: »

I was mainly posting as a reference to that particular video, where the situation was handled with a better outcome. It shows it can happen, despite people here arguing that there is no other way of dealing with what happened.

On the day in question, the Gardaí handled the situation as best as they could, and someone died. It could have ended a different way, but that's not what happened given the circumstances.

I just don't agree with people who think that this was the only way it could have ended, with a man dead.

No, he could have lived if he dropped the knife. If the tasers had worked, if the pepper spray had worked, all pale in comparison to George not dropping the knife.

Strumms

Effects wrote: »

Of course! But he clearly wasn't going to drop the knife.

So, he is responsible for lying somewhere minus a pulse. Nobody else, his choice. You seem like another individual who is anchored to the abhorrence that people in life, should need to take responsibility for their actions. Very fashionable, always somebody else’s fault. He was a violent and armed criminal who during his efforts to hurt others both members of the public and Gardai with and whilst in possession of and using a deadly bladed weapon was... shot dead before he could do any more harm ie kill or injure.

chooses to stay in and watch countdown, he’s grand, chooses to go online and price table tennis tables he’s grand, chooses to NOT go on a violent rampage he’s grand...

He did go on a violent rampage, he’s not grand, he’s dead. This is because of several actions...

Arming himself

Attacking people

Attacking Gardai

Not complying with Garda instructions.

Attempting to put distance between himself and Gardai by accessing a residential property with people present. In an agitated and dangerously violent mood whilst armed.

If he wanted to live, every single choice he made was wrong. We have free will, as did he. We have choices, as did he. ALL of his choices he made were wrong, he paid the ultimate price.

Not the fault of the Gardai, they did a good job.

No more innocent people were injured, or worse. There was zero guarantee of that had he entered or been allowed to enter the house.

TheChizler

TheChizler wrote: »

Well then they certainly shouldn't be coming up with their own running commentary and commending the Gardai like plenty of posters on here are demanding.

Can you prejudice a case by reporting a press release though?

No one here are interviewing witnesses though or accredited reporters

TheChizler

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

No one here are interviewing witnesses though or accredited reporters

I'm not following are you saying Primetime shouldn't report beyond the official facts, should do their own investigation with witnesses, or not report at all?

grassylawn

Unless you were there, you don't know whether the shooting was reasonable or not.

It looked like there was clear-cut evidence that it was reasonable in the form of the video. However now we know he had been shot before the start of that video.

We don't know whether he was going into the house to retreat or to attack or take hostages, or whether the guards had reasonable grounds to believe one or the other. We haven't seen what was happening at the moment of the first shot.

Unless you were there, you don't know what happened. Thinking that you do at this point reveals bias, one way the other.

BattleCorp

grassylawn wrote: »

It looked like there was clear-cut evidence that it was reasonable in the form of the video. However now we know he had been shot before the start of that video.

Hang on, this is news to me. Are you sure he was shot before the start of that video?

And secondly, shot with what? The tazer or a real gun?

osarusan

BattleCorp wrote: »

Hang on, this is news to me. Are you sure he was shot before the start of that video?

And secondly, shot with what? The tazer or a real gun?

Post mortem showed 6 wounds, 5 to the torso, 1 to the arm. From the Irish Times:

The Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission (Gsoc), which is investigating the case, contacted the family on Friday to inform them that the postmortem concluded Mr Nkencho was wounded six times. Five of the shots were to the torso and one was to the arm.

There is a video out there which started with him entering his door/facing his door and which appeared to show 5 shots (4 in very quick succession, 1 a second or so later).

From the Irish Times:

However, the video was recorded by a bystander from a distance and was of poor quality. It was unclear if the footage failed to capture all six shots because the sound quality was inconsistent or because the footage only began after a first shot had already been fired.

So i'm not sure we do know for certain that a shot was fired before that video was recorded, but maybe it is proved definitively in another source.

Both from here: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/independent-postmortem-on-george-nkencho-27-to-take-place-on-tuesday-1.4454791

carfinder

grassylawn wrote: »

Unless you were there, you don't know whether the shooting was reasonable or not.

It looked like there was clear-cut evidence that it was reasonable in the form of the video. However now we know he had been shot before the start of that video.

We don't know whether he was going into the house to retreat or to attack or take hostages, or whether the guards had reasonable grounds to believe one or the other. We haven't seen what was happening at the moment of the first shot.

Unless you were there, you don't know what happened. Thinking that you do at this point reveals bias, one way the other.

It has been widely reported that the gardai had attended that same house several months earlier where Georges family were fearful for their safety. The guards encounter George after his armed robbery and assault outing in Spar and he goes, armed, to the same house again …. I think the gardai had reasonable grounds to think he was going to attack or take hostages. Seems the blatant display of bias is from Georges family and supporters in the form of amnesia regarding Georges previous actions and also their drip, drip of childhood photos of George to the media!

grassylawn

BattleCorp wrote: »

Hang on, this is news to me. Are you sure he was shot before the start of that video?

And secondly, shot with what? The tazer or a real gun?

Yes it was in The Irish Times the last couple of days that he was shot six times (with bullets), Therefore he had already been shot at the start of the video.

TheChizler

carfinder wrote: »

It has been widely reported that the gardai had attended that same house several months earlier where Georges family were fearful for their safety. The guards encounter George after his armed robbery and assault outing in Spar and he goes, armed, to the same house again …. I think the gardai had reasonable grounds to think he was going to attack or take hostages.

Possibly, presuming the same Gardaí were involved this time round.

grassylawn

I remember when seeing someone actually being killed [on a video] was troubling per se.

grassylawn

carfinder wrote: »

It has been widely reported that the gardai had attended that same house several months earlier where Georges family were fearful for their safety. The guards encounter George after his armed robbery and assault outing in Spar and he goes, armed, to the same house again …. I think the gardai had reasonable grounds to think he was going to attack or take hostages. Seems the blatant display of bias is from Georges family and supporters in the form of amnesia regarding Georges previous actions and also their drip, drip of childhood photos of George to the media!

I think that too, but neither of us actually know.

I agree that there is bias in the reporting and that the child pics are outrageous, especially in the absence of a statement of his actual age in the articles they are published with.

ToddDameron

grassylawn wrote: »

Unless you were there, you don't know whether the shooting was reasonable or not.

It looked like there was clear-cut evidence that it was reasonable in the form of the video. However now we know he had been shot before the start of that video.

We don't know whether he was going into the house to retreat or to attack or take hostages, or whether the guards had reasonable grounds to believe one or the other. We haven't seen what was happening at the moment of the first shot.

Unless you were there, you don't know what happened. Thinking that you do at this point reveals bias, one way the other.

Gardai are trained to not allow an armed individual enter a building at all costs.

There were two important pieces of information in Prime Time, Gardai are trained to aim for the torso and every effort should be made to stop an armed suspect entering a building as it could lead to a deterioration of the situation ie a hostage situation.

It's not reasonable to suggest that an armed individual is retreating into a building, how could they possibly know that? Thankfully their training doesn't allow for such absurdity.

ToddDameron

grassylawn wrote: »

How do you know that?

It was explained in the Prime Time investigation.

olestoepoke

carfinder wrote: »

It has been widely reported that the gardai had attended that same house several months earlier where Georges family were fearful for their safety.

You are presuming that the Gardai on the scene knew about this, I highly doubt they did.

Hellokitty1212

olestoepoke wrote: »

You are presuming that the Gardai on the scene knew about this, I highly doubt they did.

No of course - Gardaí are going to send in the unit that can dispense deadly force and in the hour or so before they’re not going to scan Pulse at all ...

carfinder

olestoepoke wrote: »

You are presuming that the Gardai on the scene knew about this, I highly doubt they did.

I fundamentally disagree with you - I imagine the deceased previous was what caused the armed response at the scene of the shooting

ohnonotgmail

carfinder wrote: »

I fundamentally disagree with you - I imagine the deceased previous was what caused the armed response at the scene of the shooting

It was the threatening people with a knife that drew the armed response.

TheChizler

Hellokitty1212 wrote: »

No of course - Gardaí are going to send in the unit that can dispense deadly force and in the hour or so before they’re not going to scan Pulse at all ...

The whole thing took less than 30 minutes and they were only at the house for a small portion of that, it's not certain they had even identified him at that point never mind scanned pulse.

olestoepoke

carfinder wrote: »

I fundamentally disagree with you - I imagine the deceased previous was what caused the armed response at the scene of the shooting

If you think about it logically, he threatens the manager etc, were the Gardai called? Or were they in the neighbourhood? Did the person who called the Gardai know his name and relay this to the operator? All possible but highly doubtful. Did the Gardai following him know where he lived? Did they know that was his home? I would wager that it developed so quickly that no the Gardai didn't know who they were dealing with, as far as they were concerned he was an armed robber running away from the scene brandishing a deadly weapon. No time to stop and ask questions, at that stage peoples lives are in danger.

statesaver

Seriously are they forgetting to bury the lad

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Most countries in the EU have excellent levels of English.

Nobody is coming to Ireland because we speak English.

Of course they are. You can't survive in any European country with the native language. You just won't get a job. There are a few tiny exceptions, like high end IT, but if you don't learn German you won't get on in Germany.

Effects

statesaver wrote: »

Seriously are they forgetting to bury the lad

You generally can't carry out a post mortem after you bury a body.

statesaver

Effects wrote: »

You generally can't carry out a post mortem after you bury a body.

Surely that is completed by now.

Effects

statesaver wrote: »

Surely that is completed by now.

The family are conducting their own, on top of the state one.

BattleCorp

Effects wrote: »

The family are conducting their own, on top of the state one.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that he died as a result of being shot a number of times.

Strumms

Whats the point of a private post mortem ? Seems very odd. Unless said lot are looking for a payday out of it ?

He was shot multiple times, that should indicate how and why he died.

AngeloArgue

Strumms wrote: »

Whats the point of a private post mortem ? Seems very odd. Unless said lot are looking for a payday out of it ?

He was shot multiple times, that should indicate how and why he died.

There's a lot of speculation as to whether Nkencho was shot in the back, and if so how many times? Some could argue that shots in the back indicate that he was not presenting as a threat to Gardaí at that time.

Gatling

AngeloArgue wrote: »

There's a lot of speculation as to whether Nkencho was shot in the back, and if so how many times? Some could argue that shots in the back indicate that he was not presenting as a threat to Gardaí at that time.

The video clearly shows him taking a swipe at the guards so i doubt he was shot from behind with a guard shooting towards his colleagues .

People need to stop making ****e up