George Nkencho shooting *Mod warning Added to OP*

Strumms

ToddDameron wrote: »

The Gardai's fear would have been a possible hostage situation and had to stop him before he entered the house.

That’s what I’m thinking. If a bloke with a knife on a spree of violence and unpredictability was headed towards a family dwelling after assaulting the public and Gardai, where on his torso the bullet enters and exists is the last of my concerns.

SmartinMartin

AngeloArgue wrote: »

5 shots into the torso and 1 shot into the arm

5 +1 = 6

So you'll go with the reporter's interpretation of the postmortem report rather than the "6 wounds" of the actual report. Rock on with your agenda there.

Quantum Erasure

AngeloArgue wrote: »

5 shots into the torso and 1 shot into the arm

5 +1 = 6

One shot through arm into torso, maybe?

Gatling

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

One shot through arm into torso, maybe?

Quite possible or vice versa

AngeloArgue

SmartinMartin wrote: »

So you'll go with the reporter's interpretation of the postmortem report rather than the "6 wounds" of the actual report. Rock on with your agenda there.

This was from an article that came out on Sunday that I referenced in an earlier post

"The results of the post-mortem were made known by the Garda Síochána Ombudsman to the family on Friday.

An email sent to the family by Gsoc confirmed to them "injuries noted at the post-mortem examination were that it appears that six shots were aimed at the central mass (torso) and of those shots, one went through George's arm and did not go into his chest".

https://www.sundayworld.com/news/irish-news/george-nkencho-was-shot-six-times-post-mortem-shows-39951514.html

AngeloArgue

AngeloArgue wrote: »

Yes, I tend to agree. I'm just speculating on a differing viewpoint.

He was posing a deadly threat by having the means (the knife) and his behaviour (the assault and refusal to cooperate or surrender). That deadly threat was contained until he arrived at that front door, then it extended to whoever were the occupants.

As I said before I'm sure those occupants, and many others, would believe that he would not have hurt them if he was allowed to enter and would of subsequently surrendered.

But the threat wasn't contained until he no longer posed a threat.

Gardai can't gamble theirs or the public's lives on hopes/speculation/ aspirations or what he might do. They'd to make the call, they were faced with the existing threat.

AngeloArgue

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

But the threat wasn't contained until he no longer posed a threat.

By contained I mean that Gardaí were keeping their distance from him and Presumably keeping members of the public away too.

I would imagine if they had initiated deadly force while he was walking across the field questions would be asked as to why Gardaí did not keep their distance. As even though he was presenting as a threat by reason of keeping potential targets at a distance that threat was "contained" as to be not immediate

Strumms

AngeloArgue wrote: »

By contained I mean that Gardaí were keeping their distance from him and Presumably keeping members of the public away too.

I would imagine if they had initiated deadly force while he was walking across the field questions would be asked as to why Gardaí did not keep their distance. As even though he was presenting as a threat by reason of keeping potential targets at a distance that threat was "contained" as to be not immediate

Why focus on distance... he harmed others without provocation...

Rather then distancing themselves...they needed to simply apprehend.

Effects

Gatling wrote: »

The video clearly shows him taking a swipe at the guards so i doubt he was shot from behind with a guard shooting towards his colleagues .

People need to stop making ****e up

If he was trying to enter the house, he would have his back to the Gardaí, if they shot him at that point.
You need to await the report from the investigation rather than making things up, as you tend to do.

Effects

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

In the Prime Time interview with the sister she said she was pushed back into the house but she didn’t say who pushed her and the interviewer never asked (investigative journalism, eh?)

She clearly indicated it was the Gardaí who pushed her back into the house, for her own safety. Why would the journalist ask when it’s painfully obvious?

AngeloArgue

AngeloArgue wrote: »

By contained I mean that Gardaí were keeping their distance from him and Presumably keeping members of the public away too.

I would imagine if they had initiated deadly force while he was walking across the field questions would be asked as to why Gardaí did not keep their distance. As even though he was presenting as a threat by reason of keeping potential targets at a distance that threat was "contained" as to be not immediate

Dunno man, chap walking through residential area with a long blade is fairly uncontained from a public safety perspective. Cant imagine the cops thinking "this is going well"
If a kid had come around a corner and George lashed out, we'd be here asking why didn't the cops do something earlier.

cops obviously made the call to escalate or remove the threat as others became at risk

Strumms

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Dunno man, chap walking through residential area with a long blade is fairly uncontained from a public safety perspective. Cant imagine the cops thinking "this is going well"
If a kid had come around a corner and George lashed out, we'd be here asking why didn't the cops do something earlier.

cops obviously made the call to escalate or remove the threat as others became at risk

Yep, violent individual with knife, tries to slash and stab people including Gardai, then trying to access a residential premises with said weapon, can you trust him to put the knife in a drawer and sit down and start watching countdown ? You can’t, harm was very possible or very likely to to occur to whomever was inside. He needed stopping, in the small timeframe available to the Gardai, he left them little other choice, no choice actually.

Burkie1203

I see Hozier has chimed in on the Nkencho story on social media


Also saw this. It will be #justiceforsaintgeorge soon enough


https://twitter.com/SuzieJane2/status/1349057892729688069?s=19

ThunbergsAreGo

Burkie1203 wrote: »

I see Hozier has chimed in on the Nkencho story on social media


Also saw this. It will be #justiceforsaintgeorge soon enough


https://twitter.com/SuzieJane2/status/1349057892729688069?s=19

Thats just one person though. All be it following a narrative right out of the American playbook.

Can't feel one very very important detail is being left out, the one that might be the primary reason for him not being here.

The rest is irrelevant crap, this is going to cause schisms in society.

weldoninhio

AngeloArgue wrote: »

That may be so. But I'm sure his family and many others would say that he would not have hurt them and would of surrendered.

The question as to whether it is justifiable and proportionate to use lethal force against somebody who poses a deadly threat against others is an interesting one. I was comparing it to another police scenario of car chases which have been told to stand down from a dangerous pursuit. Yet the drivers of the fleeing car could still be considered as posing a deadly threat to the public.

I'm sure there's lots more such scenarios of balancing risk and threat in policing situations.

Some would say why trade taking a life for the possibility that another life may be taken?

His family would seem to say anything for the chance of a few extra €€€€. From 35 Gardai shooting him, to him having a butter knife, to him lying on the ground surrendering before being shot, to him being an angel (despite them having protection orders against him).

I wouldn’t put much weight behind what the family say.

weldoninhio

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Dunno man, chap walking through residential area with a long blade is fairly uncontained from a public safety perspective. Cant imagine the cops thinking "this is going well"
If a kid had come around a corner and George lashed out, we'd be here asking why didn't the cops do something earlier.

cops obviously made the call to escalate or remove the threat as others became at risk

Armed response weren’t there as he walked home.

Effects

Effects wrote: »

She clearly indicated it was the Gardaí who pushed her back into the house, for her own safety. Why would the journalist ask when it’s painfully obvious?

Did she? Would this have been before or after the shooting started?

Just trying to get my head around who was standing where. They followed him across the green which probably means George was the first to go through the front garden gate. Did he go straight up to the front door? Did he get his key out and try to open it? Was it already open? Did he bang on the door?

If, as you think, a Garda pushed the sister back into the house, how did that Guard manage to get between George and the door? And why isn’t the Garda at the door beside George as per the video footage? Was his life put in immediate danger meaning he had to move quick and another colleague had to make the decision to start firing to protect that Guards life?

givyjoe

AngeloArgue wrote: »

That may be so. But I'm sure his family and many others would say that he would not have hurt them and would of surrendered.

The question as to whether it is justifiable and proportionate to use lethal force against somebody who poses a deadly threat against others is an interesting one. I was comparing it to another police scenario of car chases which have been told to stand down from a dangerous pursuit. Yet the drivers of the fleeing car could still be considered as posing a deadly threat to the public.

I'm sure there's lots more such scenarios of balancing risk and threat in policing situations.

Some would say why trade taking a life for the possibility that another life may be taken?

Considering his actions on the day (vicious assault and swinging a blade at guards) and prior to that day (protection orders), anyone who says that is clearly lying.

BattleCorp

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Also saw this. It will be #justiceforsaintgeorge soon enough

https://twitter.com/SuzieJane2/status/1349057892729688069?s=19

^^^^^^^^

What a load of b0llocks.

So what if he grew up in Blanch. He assaulted someone and put them in hospital.
So what if he played football with his local team. He threatened people with a knife.
So what if people online fabricated a criminal history. His family had a protection order.
So what if he participated in community volunteering. He refused to drop the knife.
So what if he is an eldest sibling. He threatened the Gardai with the knife.
So what if he had a family. He was a danger to them. That's why they had a protection order.
So what if he suffered with his mental health. This I feel sad about but he was still a danger to others.
Did not deserve to die. His actions didn't give the Gardai much other option.

#justiceforgeorgenkencho = Fcuk off.

Clare_Culchie

Safety Notice: Attempting to kill a garda may be hazardous to your health.

This should not be a surprise to anybody.

Gatling

Effects wrote: »

You need to await the report from the investigation

But you know all the answers we don't need to wait when we have your claims

Effects

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Did she? Would this have been before or after the shooting started?

If it happened as described, it would have been before.

From Prime Time wrote:

Prime Time: It's been reported that you opened the door, that you came to the door before the shots were fired.  
Gloria: I opened the door when I saw my brother first, and I said to the Guards, he's sick, move.I wasn't allowed past the entrance and I was pushed back into my house. 

Just trying to get my head around who was standing where. They followed him across the green which probably means George was the first to go through the front garden gate. Did he go straight up to the front door? Did he get his key out and try to open it? Was it already open? Did he bang on the door?

Again, from his sister on Prime Time, she opened the door when she saw him coming.

If, as you think, a Garda pushed the sister back into the house, how did that Guard manage to get between George and the door? And why isn’t the Garda at the door beside George as per the video footage?

It's not what I think, it's what a witness described. People can only speculate at this time as to what happened.

Perhaps, she opened the door as George entered the garden, and at that point, a Garda was able to get her to go back inside. If George then moved closer to the door, the Garda would have had to move out of his reach with the knife.

The distance video appears to show six shots being fired, with at least the second one being fired at George from behind. At that point he was possibly going inside, and had to be stopped.

Again, it's all going to come out in the investigation. There's plenty of witnesses.

Hellokitty1212

Effects wrote: »

If it happened as described, it would have been before.




Again, from his sister on Prime Time, she opened the door when she saw him coming.



It's not what I think, it's what a witness described. People can only speculate at this time as to what happened.

Perhaps, she opened the door as George entered the garden, and at that point, a Garda was able to get her to go back inside. If George then moved closer to the door, the Garda would have had to move out of his reach with the knife.

The distance video appears to show six shots being fired, with at least the second one being fired at George from behind. At that point he was possibly going inside, and had to be stopped.

Again, it's all going to come out in the investigation. There's plenty of witnesses.

There might be plenty of witnesses but I wouldn’t trust the brother or sister as far as I could throw them.

ThunbergsAreGo

Effects wrote: »

If it happened as described, it would have been before.




Again, from his sister on Prime Time, she opened the door when she saw him coming.



It's not what I think, it's what a witness described. People can only speculate at this time as to what happened.

Perhaps, she opened the door as George entered the garden, and at that point, a Garda was able to get her to go back inside. If George then moved closer to the door, the Garda would have had to move out of his reach with the knife.

The distance video appears to show six shots being fired, with at least the second one being fired at George from behind. At that point he was possibly going inside, and had to be stopped.

Again, it's all going to come out in the investigation. There's plenty of witnesses.

In her defense witness statements are notoriously unreliable, especially when witnessing something as awful as the death of her brother. Would have a serious impact on how you remember events.

Effects

Gatling wrote: »

But you know all the answers we don't need to wait when we have your claims

I've got speculation, you're the one convinced you know what happened. You haven't even seen the video given the way you describe what happened.

Gatling wrote: »

The video clearly shows him taking a swipe at the guards so i doubt he was shot from behind with a guard shooting towards his colleagues.

The video shows George with his back to the Gardaí, with shots being heard. There were no Gardaí in front of George when he was in that position.
Watch the video, stop making things up.


People like you don't care about the outcome of an investigation. You've already made you own mind up as to what happened.

ToddDameron

Effects wrote: »

She clearly indicated it was the Gardaí who pushed her back into the house, for her own safety. Why would the journalist ask when it’s painfully obvious?

To be honest I can't see the Gardai getting into trouble here. Seems to be textbook, you don't want family members getting in the way of an armed situation. For example, where the bullets hit the glass, there could have been someone standing there. They were absolutely right in not allowing him enter the house with a knife and in an agitated state after assaulting someone. You just can't predict what's going to happen once they are inside, even if it is family.

Effects

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

In her defense witness statements are notoriously unreliable, especially when witnessing something as awful as the death of her brother. Would have a serious impact on how you remember events.

Of course. Which is why it's good that there's plenty of reliable witnesses.

Gatling

Effects wrote: »

I've got speculation,



The video shows George with his back to the Gardaí, with shots being heard.

Speculation that's obvious,
The video isn't clear at all ,of who's doing what and where

Effects

Gatling wrote: »

Speculation that's obvious,
The video isn't clear at all ,of who's doing what and where

The video is clear enough to show your speculation is incorrect.
That's why you don't care about the investigation, because it will probably back up that what you're saying is wrong.

Effects

Gatling wrote: »

i doubt he was shot from behind with a guard shooting towards his colleagues.

Clearly seen here with his back to the Gardaí as shots are being fired. No Gardaí in front of George in this position.
The Gardaí will state this in their reports. The coroner will state where the bullets entered the body in that report.

Stop making stuff up and wait for the full report.